Speculation: "Paging Mr. Shero, your job is on the line"

[MrBurghundy]

It's funny you mention that one because that was one of his best trade deadlines because he did the least to screw the team up long term from it. Look at what he did the following year and what we have to show from it now? The trade deadline is NOT the place you go shopping to complete your team. You shouldve had that done already via smart drafting and signing, the deadline is a sellers market where marginal talents are hideously overpriced and the actual value those players contribute in a short period of time is minimal.

Exactly. Which is why I have no ****ing clue what Shero is doing with his draft strategy.

 

[bobber]

That crap has been pissing me off for a while. I wasnt really all that upset about lack of suspensions/fines for Dubinsky and Staal and the countless others in the past who have taken advantage of this. I was more pissed off about a feckless team that did absolutely nothing to stand up for their captain and best player who has a history of concussion issues.

You really can't have arguably the best player in the world on your team and have him mugged and sprayed with water and have your GM and coach turn a blind eye. Shero has to bring in a couple of bruisers to deal with this issue. If not time to replace him with someone that will. Mario sits up in his perch. Does he not see what is happening? He quit hockey over it once I believe. It pisses everyone off that watches it. I am a Bruin fan and it drives me nuts. Even Don Cherry talked about it on his segment.

 

[ArcticFox]

Personally I don't fault Ray, he's just trying to support DB in any way he can and is exactly what a GM should be doing.
However trusting DB after all this time is a stupid thing to do, change is needed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Exactly. Which is why I have no ****ing clue what Shero is doing with his draft strategy.

When you think of just how devoid of top-six upside our forward prospects have, you just have to wonder just how clueless our scouts are at identifying forward prospects.

You could probably literally read a draft guide and select whichever forward was rated at the spot you're drafting and not do much worse (if any) than Shero's track record when it comes to drafting forwards.

Shero's current draft strategy only works if:

1-You actually play those defensemen you've drafted and use those savings to fill needs up front

Or

2-You trade those highly touted defense prospects for forward help.

But in order to accomplish #2, you need to do #1 since otherwise those prospects have almost no value. You're not getting Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan with defense prospects with no NHL experience, you're getting a broken down Brenden Morrow.

 

[Gooch]

When you think of just how devoid of top-six upside our forward prospects have, you just have to wonder just how clueless our scouts are at identifying forward prospects.

You could probably literally read a draft guide and select whichever forward was rated at the spot you're drafting and not do much worse (if any) than Shero's track record when it comes to drafting forwards.

Shero's current draft strategy only works if:

1-You actually play those defensemen you've drafted and use those savings to fill needs up front

Or

2-You trade those highly touted defense prospects for forward help.

But in order to accomplish #2, you need to do #1 since otherwise those prospects have almost no value. You're not getting Evander Kane or Bobby Ryan with defense prospects with no NHL experience, you're getting a broken down Brenden Morrow.

If I was doing our draft for the last 5 years we'd have a better prospect pool than we have now.... I am not going to pretend like I am well versed in prospects. I read a little around draft time but I don't watch any CHL or NCAA so my opinion is almost entirely shaped by those who post here. So that is pretty big indicator on just how freaking horrible he has been in that department.

 

[Terrapin]

Can't blame Shero for putting together this 'family-friendly' roster of pansies and *******. Blame him for his drafts, pathetic signings, and love of Bylsma. I'd like to see him gone, but unless things above the GM change, the next guy won't be much better

 

[Fire Shero*]

Hahahaha gibbons on the top line,

**** you Shero

 

[Fire Shero*]

Crosby is playing with Kunitz and Brian Gibbons.

Good lord, no wonder why the guy is frustrated.

 

[STLPensFan]

One thing that troubles me about the "Shero doesn't take advantage of having two generational talent centers" criticism is the fact that - in addition to that being the strategy that we all think is the best, that's the same strategy that 29 other GMs want to PREVENT or exploit.

If you've got top 6 wingers, you're going to sell them only at a premium if the bidder is the Pens.

If you're drafting in the bottom half or bottom quarter of the round all the time, you're not going to have that many no-risk options so you leverage your picks by heading to the less well-watched markets. Wings did it with the Euro's. Shero's trying to do it with the NCAA. Because we've got a fairly set roster, he's also grabbing puckmoving defensemen, all which require time to develop and for which they have the luxury of waiting for them to develop. (leading to the logjam problem when no one is biting on Gogo for Neal/Nisky 2.0)

I agree that Shero's strategy hasn't panned out the best and that he's partly to blame for some bad moves, but having Sid and Geno isn't the incredible advantage people suggest - they're also a liability.

The only remaining route of grabbing FAs is going to attract leeches and well-aged vets; the guys who want to be the guy aren't going to want to be the guy on a team that already has the guys. And even with Sid and Geno taking huge discounts, you've got the cap juggling issues (complicated by Shero making some overpayments to keep.

As for not firing Bylsma, he's really trying to go the Wings route attempting to build and sustain a perennial contender with a sense of continuity. It's not all "big happy family" that causes the problems. There's some legitimate and well reasoned tactical tools he's employing.

As frustrating as recent seasons have been, I'm loathe to lay them at Shero's door up until last offseason and this upcoming one fully resolve.

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

This is why you shouldve bucked up and gotten Kesler. You guys figure he is just some 3rd line scrub. Well he could do that and pop in goals and shut down the oppositions top lines. Put him in the playoffs and he thrives.

All Canucks were asking was your over ager defensman (Pouliot) to be tossed in with the rest of the scrubs package that was being offered.

Sutter
Pouliot
Late 1st

Is well worth it for Kesler and 2 more years on a great contract.

 

[Gunnar Staal]

This is why you shouldve bucked up and gotten Kesler. You guys figure he is just some 3rd line scrub. Well he could do that and pop in goals and shut down the oppositions top lines. Put him in the playoffs and he thrives.

All Canucks were asking was your over ager defensman (Pouliot) to be tossed in with the rest of the scrubs package that was being offered.

Sutter
Pouliot
Late 1st

Is well worth it for Kesler and 2 more years on a great contract.

It's not that I think Kesler is a scrub (he's not), but it's that the Pens didn't need him since we didn't have a Cooke and a Kennedy to give that line balance and depth to create offensive chances. Do you honestly think Kesler would've played at his full potential playing alongside the likes of Glass and Gibbons? Stempniak would've been nice but who plays left wing? He'd just be a slight upgrade on Sutter since he still won't have the support that Staal did when he was here.

Also if we give up that first round pick, we only have a fourth, a sixth and a seventh round pick this year (Gag).

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

It's not that I think Kesler is a scrub (he's not), but it's that the Pens didn't need him since we didn't have a Cooke and a Kennedy to give that line balance and depth to create offensive chances. Do you honestly think Kesler would've played at his full potential playing alongside the likes of Glass and Gibbons? Stempniak would've been nice but who plays left wing? He'd just be a slight upgrade on Sutter since he still won't have the support that Staal did when he was here.

Also if we give up that first round pick, we only have a fourth, a sixth and a seventh round pick this year (Gag).

Why would you insist that Kesler play with Glass and Gibbons? Why not play triggerman for Crosby or Malkins line? Heaven knows Crosbys line coulda used his efforts. He can play RW

 

[Gunnar Staal]

Why would you insist that Kesler play with Glass and Gibbons? Why not play triggerman for Crosby or Malkins line? Heaven knows Crosbys line coulda used his efforts. He can play RW

Not a bad idea, but if you do that you have even less depth in the bottom six. The pens would be looking at a bottom six of (lets assume that Stempniak and Goc aren't acquired due to the Kesler trade):

Glass - Vitale - Gibbons
Pyatt - Adams - Ebbett / Engelland

If that isn't enough to make someone cringe, then I don't know what will.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

Personally I don't fault Ray, he's just trying to support DB in any way he can and is exactly what a GM should be doing.
However trusting DB after all this time is a stupid thing to do, change is needed.

WHAT?

My boss didn't hire me so he could support me. LOL.

I support him and manage the microdetails to enable his vision.

He says here's Jarome Iginla, go forth and use him to much success, it is the 7th day and I must rest. I go "thanks boss!!!!" and then I stick him on right wing and use him as my gifted right hand shot on the PP, because DERRRRR that was my boss's vision to anyone but the most severe mouth breather.

Except I'm probably wrong because Bylsma did the opposite and his reward was another contract... so yeah Shero's vision is probably terrible too.

Ugh I give up. They're both useless. I mean.. just.. what.. what? what...?


Everyone, just think long and hard about this. These were supposed to be some of the best years of hockey in our lives ever. We'll never have another Crosby and Malkin. These guys just aged 5 years, and all we have is embarrassment and ruin to show for it because of a series of fairly obvious dumb decisions that everyone in the organization just happily let pass without a moment of objection.

Another few years and then you get averagish talent for the rest of your life and then you die. Shero and Bylsma took some of the best hockey years of your short, insignificant little life right out of your crooked toothed hungry mouth, and now all you have to look forward is cougars with crow's feet and wrinkled tattoos their failed parents didn't prevent them from getting. Oh well, I guess you still have Game of Thrones between sobbing sessions.

 

[KIRK]

WHAT?

My boss didn't hire me so he could support me. LOL.

I support him and manage the microdetails to enable his vision.

He says here's Jarome Iginla, go forth and use him to much success, it is the 7th day and I must rest. I go "thanks boss!!!!" and then I stick him on right wing and use him as my gifted right hand shot on the PP, because DERRRRR that was my boss's vision to anyone but the most severe mouth breather.

Except I'm probably wrong because Bylsma did the opposite and his reward was another contract... so yeah Shero's vision is probably terrible too.

Ugh I give up. They're both useless. I mean.. just.. what.. what? what...?


Everyone, just think long and hard about this. These were supposed to be some of the best years of hockey in our lives ever. We'll never have another Crosby and Malkin. These guys just aged 5 years, and all we have is embarrassment and ruin to show for it because of a series of fairly obvious dumb decisions that everyone in the organization just happily let pass without a moment of objection.

Another few years and then you get averagish talent for the rest of your life and then you die. Shero and Bylsma took some of the best hockey years of your short, insignificant little life right out of your crooked toothed hungry mouth, and now all you have to look forward is cougars with crow's feet and wrinkled tattoos their failed parents didn't prevent them from getting. Oh well, I guess you still have Game of Thrones between sobbing sessions.

Wow.

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

Not a bad idea, but if you do that you have even less depth in the bottom six. The pens would be looking at a bottom six of (lets assume that Stempniak and Goc aren't acquired due to the Kesler trade):

Glass - Vitale - Gibbons
Pyatt - Adams - Ebbett / Engelland

If that isn't enough to make someone cringe, then I don't know what will.

Wow...you make a great point and no offence, but now Im not complaining about the Canucks depth issues now. At the time of the trade, many of us were hoping for Sutter over Matthias anyway. At the same time, most here were aiming for Pouliot as the central asset coming back. Gillis HAD stated that we wanted a good young center coming back as well as a 1st. Bennett was an attractive asset due to him spending time here in Penticton.

 

[Dupree13]

There are some valid complaints made against Shero in the OP and through-out this thread.

But at the end of the day when judging the GM, you ask the question of whether he put together rosters that could contend and potentially win Cups. I feel that, mistakes and all, he did do that.

Particularly last year, they will never have a roster that stacked again.

It's Bylsma who mismanages the roster, doesn't hold players accountable, fails to develop and utilize the young talent, presides over the lack of discipline and structure, all of which leads to the underachievement of the last 4 years.

Keeping Bylsma around is Shero's biggest mistake (as others have said), and to me the only one that's inexcusable.

 

[chethejet]

One would think Shero at some point would have been in a meeting and asked why are we signing old guys to four year contracts? One would think to have him justify his overwhelming support of a coach who needed J Martin to teach him how to coach. spending big bucks for a puck moving defensemen who had basically under performed his talent and you sign him to a 7.25/per year million dollar contract after drafting defensemen up the kazoo. And if that isn't enough, he signs Scuderi to a four year contract when who was he bidding against for that player? He has to go today.

 

[Gooch]

There are some valid complaints made against Shero in the OP and through-out this thread.

But at the end of the day when judging the GM, you ask the question of whether he put together rosters that could contend and potentially win Cups. I feel that, mistakes and all, he did do that.

Particularly last year, they will never have a roster that stacked again.

It's Bylsma who mismanages the roster, doesn't hold players accountable, fails to develop and utilize the young talent, presides over the lack of discipline and structure, all of which leads to the underachievement of the last 4 years.

Keeping Bylsma around is Shero's biggest mistake (as others have said), and to me the only one that's inexcusable.

Because he went off and blew his wad at a trade deadline getting the worst possible value for his minimal amount of assets doesnt make him a good GM. We're now a worse off team because of that "all in" moment and even this year we are going to have a horrible draft from a depth point of view. That's 2 years in a row, good teams cannot sustain that lack of influx of good solid CHEAP talent. Crosby and Malkin cover up a lot of mistakes but the real key players on the team and especially on the cup winning team were all from the previous GM or acquired with assets the previous GM drafted/signed.

For those who say he's too cautious, it makes me scratch my head. A cautious man wouldnt continuously throw away drafts and do his shopping each year at the worst time of year to do shopping (trade deadline). A cautious GM would ensure that they have a steady pipeline of talent that is homegrown and signed to extremely cheap/reasonable deals. A cautious GM would not sign players to long term contracts into the twilight of their careers with no trade clauses added in to boot.

No, cautious is not the proper way to describe Ray Shero, he just has bad judgement. He traded off Joe Morrow who was the teams first or second top prospect for a rental fully intended to be on the bottom 6. That's just horrible short termed judgement. If we get another GM he's going to have his hands full. A farm system that is devoid of talent and a roster that is extremely top heavy and a lot of players underperforming on their contracts that are impossible to move. Ray Shero took a perfect situation inheriting the players he got and the 2nd overall pick in the draft and he managed to basically screw it all up.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Personally I don't fault Ray, he's just trying to support DB in any way he can and is exactly what a GM should be doing.
However trusting DB after all this time is a stupid thing to do, change is needed.

Give me a break. DB never asked Shero to only draft dman and not have 1 viable forward prospect. I doubt DB asked Shero to sign the dozens of absolutely pathetic forwards he has. I don't think DB asked for Crosby to play with Gibbons in game 7.

I'm sorry , DB is a complete idiot, but don't blame Shero's incompetence on anyone except him.

 

[Dupree13]

The only indisputably bad moves were Scuderi and Morrow/Morrow. Kunitz and Dupuis are still very useful players and at the end of those deals, the cap will be in a place where the hits won't be killer. Letang can still be a Top 5 Dman in the game, and under the right coach I fully expect it.

The assets given up last year to get Iginla were well worth it, even Douglas Murray filled a major need. That roster should have been Cup worthy. Even this year's could have been. That's the GMs job, all you can ask of him.

 

[Extra Texture]

WHAT?

My boss didn't hire me so he could support me. LOL.

I support him and manage the microdetails to enable his vision.

He says here's Jarome Iginla, go forth and use him to much success, it is the 7th day and I must rest. I go "thanks boss!!!!" and then I stick him on right wing and use him as my gifted right hand shot on the PP, because DERRRRR that was my boss's vision to anyone but the most severe mouth breather.

Except I'm probably wrong because Bylsma did the opposite and his reward was another contract... so yeah Shero's vision is probably terrible too.

Ugh I give up. They're both useless. I mean.. just.. what.. what? what...?


Everyone, just think long and hard about this. These were supposed to be some of the best years of hockey in our lives ever. We'll never have another Crosby and Malkin. These guys just aged 5 years, and all we have is embarrassment and ruin to show for it because of a series of fairly obvious dumb decisions that everyone in the organization just happily let pass without a moment of objection.

Another few years and then you get averagish talent for the rest of your life and then you die. Shero and Bylsma took some of the best hockey years of your short, insignificant little life right out of your crooked toothed hungry mouth, and now all you have to look forward is cougars with crow's feet and wrinkled tattoos their failed parents didn't prevent them from getting. Oh well, I guess you still have Game of Thrones between sobbing sessions.

Wow. What a post. Hats off to you sir.

Its a sad realization that most of what you say is accurate, all joking aside. Their best years have been utterly wasted on this shambolic nonsense. No way it should have gone on this long, but it has, and things have gone from stale and "in need of a refresh" to downright fetid where you get this disaster of a series.

Its just really hard to believe this organization had this kind of patience. In this, the cap era, where a window on a team's chances slams shut after just a few years. After the debacle of 2012, DB should've been on his final notice. But then it happened again (after a nice but turbulent run) and that wasnt just met with acceptance, but reward. How do people who have lived and worked in this game all their lives not see what was so wrong? How did they just sit on their hands?

Its been said a million times, but its the manner in which this team has gone down in the past (or made it hard on themselves) which should have set alarm bells off long before now. The cup is an incredibly difficult prize to win, and 15 teams lose every year, but when you had those series against the Flyers, Isles, and Bruins, and go down in such a turbulent and self destructive manner, that should never have happened more than once.

 

[Gooch]

The only indisputably bad moves were Scuderi and Morrow/Morrow. Kunitz and Dupuis are still very useful players and at the end of those deals, the cap will be in a place where the hits won't be killer. Letang can still be a Top 5 Dman in the game, and under the right coach I fully expect it.

The assets given up last year to get Iginla were well worth it, even Douglas Murray filled a major need. That roster should have been Cup worthy. Even this year's could have been. That's the GMs job, all you can ask of him.

two 2nds for Doug Murray... a man who only garnered a 1.5mil a year cap hit job after that. And not even doug murray for a season, no, doug murray for about two months.

Iginla did not help this team win so the trade was NOT worth it. Screw the actual prospects or picks we gave up, lets just talk about that value. We traded away a package for a couple months of a player we apparently didnt need because it was obvious he was awkwardly forced into the lineup in a wrong position. That couldve been used towards trading for a player under contract that couldve actually been of use and continued to be of use to this team well after that two months. We basically lost all of last years draft for that debacle and a good portion of this years draft and we have absolutely nothing to show for it.

People are already complaining about Kunitz/Dupuis and it's only going to go downhill from here because at their age they don't get better each year they get worse. So only in bizarro world would that be considered good.

Do you like Tanner Glass? Craig Adams? Guess who gave Dan Bylsma those drugs?

How about Michelek for a bag of pucks trade, look at the kinds of returns that Buffalo got for their players they were selling off.

How's our farm system look, good thing we have plenty of wingers in it with high upside potential looking to slot into the top 6 at below market value rates...oh wait we don't. Well, good thing we have all those defensemen, don't worry that we signed old man Scuderi to effectively block them from getting any playing time and you can be assured since it's Ray Shero he'll be signing another dinosaur if given the keys to the team again this summer.

 

[joeyjake5]

One would think Shero at some point would have been in a meeting and asked why are we signing old guys to four year contracts? One would think to have him justify his overwhelming support of a coach who needed J Martin to teach him how to coach. spending big bucks for a puck moving defensemen who had basically under performed his talent and you sign him to a 7.25/per year million dollar contract after drafting defensemen up the kazoo. And if that isn't enough, he signs Scuderi to a four year contract when who was he bidding against for that player? He has to go today.

He should have been fired last night. These are all major mistakes.

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

There are some valid complaints made against Shero in the OP and through-out this thread.

But at the end of the day when judging the GM, you ask the question of whether he put together rosters that could contend and potentially win Cups. I feel that, mistakes and all, he did do that.

Particularly last year, they will never have a roster that stacked again.

It's Bylsma who mismanages the roster, doesn't hold players accountable, fails to develop and utilize the young talent, presides over the lack of discipline and structure, all of which leads to the underachievement of the last 4 years.

Keeping Bylsma around is Shero's biggest mistake (as others have said), and to me the only one that's inexcusable.

As an outsider looking in Bylsma simply became a differwnt voice to replace what Therien had already started. It worked and the Pens won the cup and Bylsma was the saint hero. But now this coach has grown stale on the players and needs to change.

Shero has done a good job but much like our former GM Gillis, sending picks and prospects for "has been, past their prime" players such as Murray, Morrow, and Iginla, etc....is now catching up to them.

Perhaps Im wrong but thats just an outsider observation.


Hey...just a thought.....Torts is lookin for a job. Can you imagine Crosby becoming the shot blocker like the Sedins were forced to do? Haha