Out of Town - Washington Capitals Stanley Cup Champions! Edition

[JianYang]

Habs also seem to luck out with goaltending all of the time. They get productive goalies out of nowhere. Huet, Halak, Niemi, Condon, Hackett, Moog. Bunch of nobodies.

Moog had a solid career. I guess it was perhaps a mild surprise that he did well given that he was in the twilight of his career, but he certainly wasn't a nobody.

Hackett had some success in in Chicago. He was decent and probably made it a bit easier for the Hawks to let go of belfour. He just kept it going in montreal.

Huet was the real big surprise out of that group.

 

[417]

Habs also seem to luck out with goaltending all of the time. They get productive goalies out of nowhere. Huet, Halak, Niemi, Condon, Hackett, Moog. Bunch of nobodies.

That's true...but it's also because Habs fans/media love to make heroes out of their goalies.

Most of the goalies you named had good stretches with the Habs, but nothing all that striking...Halak had a cult-like following based on a playoff run.

 

[Lshap]

It means that deployment matters, and it can make or break a career. You can't just say who has top 6 talent by who ends up in the top 6s of the league, and everyone else just doesn't have the talent. Sometimes players will surprise you, and yes, Eller definitely had the talent to surprise. What happened with William is that he was given the opportunity to be a top offensive player, and he took advantage of it. There was nothing indicating he would do it before hand. Vegas had to run the experiment.

Are you seriously suggesting that William would have scored 43 goals without this opportunity? Are you really willing to say that William, the 43 goal scorer was written into his DNA wherever he found himself playing?

The debate isn't about Karlsson. It's about Eller. Of course opportunity is important. Eller's been given it the last two years and remains a good #3c. He hasn't scored 43 goals and isn't likely to, which is why the comparison between the two players is mystifying.

 

[Lshap]

The only constant is how the Habs never luck out on someone like that. Well, we kind of did with Radulov. Ugh.

Thanks for reminding me...

 

[NotProkofievian]

The debate isn't about Karlsson. It's about Eller. Of course opportunity is important. Eller's been given it the last two years and remains a good #3c. He hasn't scored 43 goals and isn't likely to, which is why the comparison between the two players is mystifying.

The debate is about underutilized players, period, and finding the hidden gems on your own team. It's not about a single player, it's about what we can learn from that player. The lesson to be learned from the curious case of William Karlsson isn't ''well, isn't that odd? oh well, business as usual.'' It's that you might have a 40 goal scorer lying right under your nose, and not know it. The question should be ''how do we know that we don't have a William Karlsson.'' So far there's been a serious reluctance by hfhabs to admit that deployment, the better part of development, has any influence on the course of a player's career. I think that's just burying one's head in the sand at this point.

Eller has remained a good 3C because he's continued to be used as a 3C and he's a good player. He has never been given an opportunity like Karlsson. You don't think that if Eller played with Oshie or Ovechkin for 20 minutes per night that you'd have a lot more difficult time arguing that he's a 3C and nothing more? Please.

 

[Runner77]

Thanks for reminding me...

Sorry about that. For once that I see several Lshap posts lined up for my reading pleasure, I had to screw it up.

Damn.

 

[Doc McKenna]

There were a few who questioned the trade, but I think most were excited. Not sure if happy would be the word I'd use, but I think many were optimistic. Heck, I had a Drouin avatar for the first third of the season.

But yeah, that trade was awesome when the expectation was Radulov and Markov were returning. Since they weren't, I think the planned experiment of converting a career AHL/NHL winger into a center with a gaping hole on defence and arguably right wing, the situation was noticeably foreboding.

I believe even I said he it was a good stand alone trade *if we were going to follow through with moves that summer. Of course that was with the assumption we would naturally retain markov and radulov, while moving chuck or max for a center plus a pick. THAt would have been a smart move. Instead we get dumpster fire signings and not retaining the best FA on the market that actually worked for us.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

There is a special show/documentary (not sure but they announced it when I listened live today) on Monday (05/28) on Sportsnet about the last Canadian team that won the SC in 1993, that should be the Habs I believe! It is before the playoff game commence.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

I have predicted every round that Vegas would lose. They have won all 3 rounds.

I predict Ovechkin hoists the Cup.

The and I are very happy with your decision, so Knights it is!

 

[Per Sjoblom]

This tweet made me laugh:

Straight shooter!

 

[Doc McKenna]

Yeah, you sold me on that one. Give Delarose some good wingers and ses if the guy drowns, float or swim . It's not like we have better options for now anyways

the better option is the guy that generated DLR many of his points this season. Chuck.

 

[jaffy27]

The only constant is how the Habs never luck out on someone like that. Well, we kind of did with Radulov. Ugh.

Byron for sure and Danault to some degree. Same with Dutch Gretzky.

Obviously not to Karlsson standards but these are players that were stuck in mud at their previous residence and somehow discovered their game here.

Needless to say, I hope they (habs) rethink their methods and not only give these kids opportunities, but allow them to faulter, reset, and have another kick at the can, and another, and another, etc.....

 

[Lshap]

The debate is about underutilized players, period, and finding the hidden gems on your own team. It's not about a single player, it's about what we can learn from that player. The lesson to be learned from the curious case of William Karlsson isn't ''well, isn't that odd? oh well, business as usual.'' It's that you might have a 40 goal scorer lying right under your nose, and not know it. The question should be ''how do we know that we don't have a William Karlsson.'' So far there's been a serious reluctance by hfhabs to admit that deployment, the better part of development, has any influence on the course of a player's career. I think that's just burying one's head in the sand at this point.

Eller has remained a good 3C because he's continued to be used as a 3C and he's a good player. He has never been given an opportunity like Karlsson. You don't think that if Eller played with Oshie or Ovechkin for 20 minutes per night that you'd have a lot more difficult time arguing that he's a 3C and nothing more? Please.

The difference between Lars Eller and William Karlsson is not utilization. If flipping a 3rd line player into an elite sniper was that simple, expect to see coaches turn a bunch of depth players into 40-goal scorers next season simply by changing how they're utilized. Obviously that won't happen, because the vast majority of depth players don't have the ability to become snipers, no matter their usage. Karlsson's story is an outlier in so many ways; weaving him into this conversation doesn't work because he's not a realistic yardstick for others.

I agree Eller was under-utilized here; now that he's being used correctly he's become a stronger, more confident version of the same player. I see a solid veteran who's made the most of his role as a solid #3C. You might see more than that, but I see wishful thinking. That's not a criticism of him or you, simply an acknowledgment of what he is, and isn't.

 

[OldCraig71]

One thing is certain, Lars Eller is certainly a player that benefited from getting traded away from here, I have similar hopes for Galchenyuk. I have to laugh as well because this marks two Stanley cup finals in two years with former castoffs of the "great" Montreal Canadiens.

 

[Adam Michaels]

There is a special show/documentary (not sure but they announced it when I listened live today) on Monday (05/28) on Sportsnet about the last Canadian team that won the SC in 1993, that should be the Habs I believe! It is before the playoff game commence.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...may-28th-on-sportsnet.2495131/#post-146290521

 

[Doc McKenna]

The difference between Lars Eller and William Karlsson is not utilization. If flipping a 3rd line player into an elite sniper was that simple, expect to see coaches turn a bunch of depth players into 40-goal scorers next season simply by changing how they're utilized. Obviously that won't happen, because the vast majority of depth players don't have the ability to become snipers, no matter their usage. Karlsson's story is an outlier in so many ways; weaving him into this conversation doesn't work because he's not a realistic yardstick for others.

I agree Eller was under-utilized here; now that he's being used correctly he's become a stronger, more confident version of the same player. I see a solid veteran who's made the most of his role as a solid #3C. You might see more than that, but I see wishful thinking. That's not a criticism of him or you, simply an acknowledgment of what he is, and isn't.

I think you simply under value what a lot of us see. I think he was going to be better than what he is now. Some had him pegged as a Chad Kilger. He very likely could have been a solid 2nd line 50 point center. You may not agree with this, but many of us think he certainly had it in him to do so. You still have him pegged as a 3rd line center. All things considered he is better than any center on our team playing at that position.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...may-28th-on-sportsnet.2495131/#post-146290521

Thanks, have a nice weekend and let LFC win tomorrow so Bergevin can mention Real Madrid not qualifying for the WC again!

 

[Sorinth]

The difference between Lars Eller and William Karlsson is not utilization. If flipping a 3rd line player into an elite sniper was that simple, expect to see coaches turn a bunch of depth players into 40-goal scorers next season simply by changing how they're utilized. Obviously that won't happen, because the vast majority of depth players don't have the ability to become snipers, no matter their usage. Karlsson's story is an outlier in so many ways; weaving him into this conversation doesn't work because he's not a realistic yardstick for others.

I agree Eller was under-utilized here; now that he's being used correctly he's become a stronger, more confident version of the same player. I see a solid veteran who's made the most of his role as a solid #3C. You might see more than that, but I see wishful thinking. That's not a criticism of him or you, simply an acknowledgment of what he is, and isn't.

Obviously most guys won't turn into a 70 point player, but that's not really the point. Nobody thought Karlsson was capable of that level of production either.

Some players grow with more opportunity some stay the same, there's simply no way to accurately predict which ones. That's why the key for the team is when a player shows potential to be more you have to give him those extra opportunities, to find out whether he actually has it in him or not.

 

[Whitesnake]

Byron for sure and Danault to some degree. Same with Dutch Gretzky.

Obviously not to Karlsson standards but these are players that were stuck in mud at their previous residence and somehow discovered their game here.

Needless to say, I hope they (habs) rethink their methods and not only give these kids opportunities, but allow them to faulter, reset, and have another kick at the can, and another, and another, etc.....

As of today, nobody will ever ever mention Weise as a great player for the Montreal Canadiens. Byron? Maybe if he continues that way and brings it in the playoffs. Same with Danault. But none of those players are game changing players. Not even to Eller standards. Imagine Karlsson, Marchessault etc. And till we go there, we will have to be satisfied with getting great 4th liners....

 

[OldCraig71]

Obviously most guys won't turn into a 70 point player, but that's not really the point. Nobody thought Karlsson was capable of that level of production either.

Some players grow with more opportunity some stay the same, there's simply no way to accurately predict which ones. That's why the key for the team is when a player shows potential to be more you have to give him those extra opportunities, to find out whether he actually has it in him or not.

We must also never underestimate the value of a good coach. It's not like we had a good one while Eller was here. I always loved Lars Eller the player, I have watched his defensive zone play in these playoffs and loved the way he gets the puck out of danger. He stepped up admirably when Backstrom went down, tell me, which one of our current centers that could have done that?

 

[jaffy27]

We must also never underestimate the value of a good coach. It's not like we had a good one while Eller was here. I always loved Lars Eller the player, I have watched his defensive zone play in these playoffs and loved the way he gets the puck out of danger. He stepped up admirably when Backstrom went down, tell me, which one of our current centers that could have done that?

Danault filled in admirably. I like both players but will give the edge to Danault....

 

[OldCraig71]

Danault filled in admirably. I like both players but will give the edge to Danault....

Eller for me because of what he is in the playoffs. Did you get to stream that game 7 the other day by the way? I had bottled moose a few days ago lol, thought of jaffy lol.

 

[417]

Eller should of been groomed for #14's role years ago...

And value on #14 would have been cashed in at its highest value.

 

[jaffy27]

Eller for me because of what he is in the playoffs. Did you get to stream that game 7 the other day by the way? I had bottled moose a few days ago lol, thought of jaffy lol.

Right on!!!

I’m heading to North Bay to pick up over 1000lbs of moose meat from
Last years hunt. (Next Thursday) Divide by 3 and it’s a little over 300lbs each.....good for a while, lots of BBQed moose burgers lol

Yes I did, watched it in my hotel room. Great game. Can’t argue, Eller had an awesome playoff. I hope he hoists the cup, but then I know I’ll read on this site how he could’ve been our #1 Centre lol

If Vegas wins though, I’m okay. I just want to see Ovie win it, the guy is so deserving and so good!!

 

[Doc McKenna]

Eller should of been groomed for #14's role years ago...

And value on #14 would have been cashed in at its highest value.

The year of pleks renewal we should have shipped him at the TDL and moved davey to 13 minutes a game on the third line or send him packing for a bag of peanuts. Should have been Chuck, Eller, Danault ..maybe DLR and be done with it. Not a great center lineup but somehow better than what we have seen the last 3 years.