Our Future In Goal

[Anglesmith]

I'd rather take my chances on waivers than trade him for a measly 4th round pick or something.

So you're saying you wouldn't trade Ortio for Gaudreau or Brodie?

Bonus points if you can identify exactly which logical fallacy I'm employing here.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think he easily nets more then a 4th round pick.

Personally, I think we give him a shot. If he sucks then it should be no problem putting him through waivers. But as it stands right now, he will get claimed. No doubt in my mind.

 

[InfinityIggy]

So you're saying you wouldn't trade Ortio for Gaudreau or Brodie?

Bonus points if you can identify exactly which logical fallacy I'm employing here.

'The Gamblers Fallacy'? Or perhaps 'The Texas Sharpshooter'?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

So you're saying you wouldn't trade Ortio for Gaudreau or Brodie?

Bonus points if you can identify exactly which logical fallacy I'm employing here.

I prefer the good ol' appeal to authority, along the lines of "I'm not going to worry I trust Treliving/Hartley to make the right decision whatever happens"

 

[Anglesmith]

'The Gamblers Fallacy'? Or perhaps 'The Texas Sharpshooter'?

I'd say it's closest to Texas Sharpshooter, but it's also a Loaded Question fallacy as well as a Strawman. It's isn't the Gambler's Fallacy, though. That would be what the main board does when they say that Calgary's shooting percentage will be less than average this year to make up for last year.

 

[Devilspuppet666]

10 games is still 10 games, he had an idea of what to expect, he also had ECHL time prior to being recalled that year. And if they stay the course it doesn't mean Ortio is going anywhere, as several of us have pointed out there is a very slim chance he will be claimed as teams cannot afford to gift a spot to a guy with 15 career games on a position as vital as goaltending. And a bad camp won't affect Hiller or Ramo too much because they have proven their worth over a full season before, for Ortio to have a chance to make the team out of camp he is going to have to give Hartley a reason to believe he will be better than either of them were last season .

10 games isn't really a big amount at all, and honestly its a good thing he went to Europe worked on his game and came back a much better and ready goaltender... and i seriously doubt he would clear waivers, all the goalies you listed were washed up, career AHLers, or in Markstrom's case played poorly in the NHL. I'd bet one of these teams Predators, Sabres, Devils, Blue Jackets, Panthers, and Bruins would take a flyer on him, especially in a backup role.

 

[Lunatik]

10 games isn't really a big amount at all, and honestly its a good thing he went to Europe worked on his game and came back a much better and ready goaltender... and i seriously doubt he would clear waivers, all the goalies you listed were washed up, career AHLers, or in Markstrom's case played poorly in the NHL. I'd bet one of these teams Predators, Sabres, Devils, Blue Jackets, Panthers, and Bruins would take a flyer on him, especially in a backup role.

Martstrom's numbers in the NHL were not much different than Ortio's. Yeah his GAA is higher because of playing in Florida but his SV% was only .003 lower than Jesus Ortio.

Predators have Hutton on a 1 way deal and as a budget team are unlikely to want to invest 1.3 million in keeping Ortio up all year.
Sabres have Chad Johnson who is their veteran backup.
Devils have Kinkaid who is only a year older than Ortio and has had just as much or more AHL success.
Blue Jackets have passed on many goalies to keep McElhinney who they keep re-signing, I doubt that will change now.
Panthers have Montoya who is an established NHLer and making over a million dollars, demoting him to take Ortio is basically a 1.65 million investment in a guy with 15 NHL games.
Why would the Bruins take Ortio when they have Subban?

 

[Devilspuppet666]

Martstrom's numbers in the NHL were not much different than Ortio's. Yeah his GAA is higher because of playing in Florida but his SV% was only .003 lower than Jesus Ortio.

Predators have Hutton on a 1 way deal and as a budget team are unlikely to want to invest 1.3 million in keeping Ortio up all year.
Sabres have Chad Johnson who is their veteran backup.
Devils have Kinkaid who is only a year older than Ortio and has had just as much or more AHL success.
Blue Jackets have passed on many goalies to keep McElhinney who they keep re-signing, I doubt that will change now.
Panthers have Montoya who is an established NHLer and making over a million dollars, demoting him to take Ortio is basically a 1.65 million investment in a guy with 15 NHL games.
Why would the Bruins take Ortio when they have Subban?

really Jesus Ortio? i never said he was going to be a star but were not letting him go for nothing (waivers, which he would not clear.) and I'm not going to get into this big thing with you because its not worth it.

 

[Lunatik]

really Jesus Ortio? i never said he was going to be a star but were not letting him go for nothing (waivers, which he would not clear.) and I'm not going to get into this big thing with you because its not worth it.

Honestly, who cares of he goes for nothing? It's minimal risk on a average prospect that people are praising because of a 4 game winning streak and he was discovered by Kipper. Any GM that gifts a spot to a goaltender with 15 games of NHL experience should be fired.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

Also, just to retort to those saying there were no goalies waived comparable to Ortio, we already discussed Maelstrom, but Hackett is I think very comparable.

He is only a year older than Ortio, making him same age last year when he got waived. He has a bit more NHL games total, with an above 0.900 save percentage that's higher than Ortio's. In the AHL he also has 184 games played.

Very comparable to Ortio. Hackett also was drafted higher. So technically had a higher draft pedigree.

 

[Master Bill]

Honestly, who cares of he goes for nothing? It's minimal risk on a average prospect that people are praising because of a 4 game winning streak and he was discovered by Kipper. Any GM that gifts a spot to a goaltender with 15 games of NHL experience should be fired.

I just don't understand your hatred towards him. Nobody here are impressed only because of the 4-game winning streak. But I'm sure you were also impressed with some of the games last season where he pulled the team out of their *****?

He's come a long way from playing in Finland to NA over the last 6 years, improved massively, and has had success at every level so far except the NHL. I don't see why you rate McDonald higher than him while the highest level of hockey McDonald has played is the Q?

I surely won't be able to change your opinion on him, but to me it seems like you just don't like the guy.

 

[Lunatik]

I just don't understand your hatred towards him. Nobody here are impressed only because of the 4-game winning streak. But I'm sure you were also impressed with some of the games last season where he pulled the team out of their *****?

He's come a long way from playing in Finland to NA over the last 6 years, improved massively, and has had success at every level so far except the NHL. I don't see why you rate McDonald higher than him while the highest level of hockey McDonald has played is the Q?

I surely won't be able to change your opinion on him, but to me it seems like you just don't like the guy.

I don't hate Ortio. I just think he is an average prospect. What I hate is everyone thinking he is this irreplaceable asset, when the reality is every team has a prospect like him. I rate McDonald higher because I think his potential is higher, I actually think McDonald's potential is almost as high as Gillies.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I don't hate Ortio. I just think he is an average prospect. What I hate is everyone thinking he is this irreplaceable asset, when the reality is every team has a prospect like him. I rate McDonald higher because I think his potential is higher, I actually think McDonald's potential is almost as high as Gillies.

No one is saying he's irreplaceable. We are just saying he's too good to be put on waivers with the risk of losing him for nothing.

Again, I'll point to the Kings. Everyone thought Bernier was the future in net, until some guy named John Quick got in a few games due to injury and never looked back. Goalies are hard to predict and that's why we need to give Gillies, Ortio and McD a chance in net. It gives us much better odds to find our next franchise tender.

And if you don't think he has elite potential then you clearly weren't watching the games in December when our team was playing like garbage. Yet we won, in most part due to Joni Ortio.