Our Abysmal Defense

[Wallet Inspector]

As someone stated earlier, Claesson should be given a shot at a few NHL games.

 

[JessicaN]

As someone stated earlier, Claesson should be given a shot at a few NHL games.

this!

 

[Cosmix]

Murray's inability to fix the D after multiple years of AHL level defence is now officially at the level of complete incompetence.

His obsession with a top 6 forward as the fix to this team is also bordering delusion.

I think the terms "complete incompetence" and "bordering delusion" are gross exaggerations. But he does deserve criticism for not fixing the defence. I think the team was counting on MacArthur to be a top 6 winger. He was in his first season here but has not been since. Michalek is no longer top 6 in my view but serviceable as third liner for sure. The team needs a top 4 D-man for sure and a top 6 winger with the loss of MasArthur.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We are the only team above .500 who have given up 100+ goals.

6 teams have given up > 100 goals
Our brothers are
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Arizona
Columbus

 

[Very Stable Genius]

6 teams have given up > 100 goals
Our brothers are
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Arizona
Columbus

And we are the only one above .500 as I said. Not good company to keep.

 

[thinkwild]

I was under the impression that Murray wasnt trying to fix the d, but starting with Karlsson, has been trying to draft and develop our d, building from the back end out. The acknowledged proper way. Not sure how quick that is expected to happen.

Is it just me, or do defensemen and fowards develop properly in opposite ways?

Forwards seem to developed properly when placed in the top six, and getting a lot of minutes, but defensemen develop best by being placed on the bottom pairing and working their way up.

Is that an argument for playing Prince more?

I’d think everyone develops better by getting more ice time. But where can you do that and hurt the team the least.

Is there a blanket rule that shows for example that we are better off getting Lazar to play forward quickly but make Karlsson spend a few years coming along? Rookie goalies are probably the hardest to shelter, then defencemen who usually develop slower. But im not sure they are developing in opposite ways.

 

[trentmccleary]

I think the terms "complete incompetence" and "bordering delusion" are gross exaggerations. But he does deserve criticism for not fixing the defence. I think the team was counting on MacArthur to be a top 6 winger. He was in his first season here but has not been since. Michalek is no longer top 6 in my view but serviceable as third liner for sure. The team needs a top 4 D-man for sure and a top 6 winger with the loss of MasArthur.

The team is 5th in scoring, MacArthur is the 6th best of the top-6 and there are some suitable replacements. Do you think a top-6 for MacArthur's injury is really that important?

I was under the impression that Murray wasnt trying to fix the d, but starting with Karlsson, has been trying to draft and develop our d, building from the back end out. The acknowledged proper way. Not sure how quick that is expected to happen.

This is how you build the skeleton of your team, not every last piece because that will never happen. You can't draft and develop a perfectly balanced team, all ready to peak at the same time. You get close and then you start making trades to fill the last few holes. Top 2-3 d-man for the left side is one of those last few holes, a massive one that needs to be plugged now.

 

[thinkwild]

Well BMurr hasnt needed to wait until we get close, he has made some pretty significant trades already to get us to where we are. And i'd think it is safe to say he is always on the phone looking for another one.

That last missing piece though is somewhat illusory too, cause as soon as we get it, im sure we will be right back to thinking there is just one more missing piece.

One problem with getting the dman we want is the ones traded are usually those due for a big raise. Someone approaching ufa, that a cap strapped team needs to trade before they get a 7 yr 6 mil contract, which is presumably the caliber of player we are after, also has to be recruited, as they will be a ufa. Which is another reason we need to draft and develop a team before we can make that move, so that we have a team good enough to entice a ufa to sign.

If there was great dman out there we could get, im sure Murray would try. But why must it be plugged now? What's the hurry? We are a contender but for that deal? We need to pay the price and make the sacrifice now or all our development goes down the drain and the window closes? I see no need for such a shortcut attempt. We can still be the tortoise and not the hare

 

[DrEasy]

If there was great dman out there we could get, im sure Murray would try. But why must it be plugged now? What's the hurry? We are a contender but for that deal? We need to pay the price and make the sacrifice now or all our development goes down the drain and the window closes? I see no need for such a shortcut attempt. We can still be the tortoise and not the hare

We have a great top 6, a great goalie, and a superstar defenseman. We've done the hard part. The rest of pieces should be the easier ones to get (not "easy", just "easier"). That's what's frustrating.

 

[trentmccleary]

Well BMurr hasnt needed to wait until we get close, he has made some pretty significant trades already to get us to where we are. And i'd think it is safe to say he is always on the phone looking for another one.

That last missing piece though is somewhat illusory too, cause as soon as we get it, im sure we will be right back to thinking there is just one more missing piece.

One problem with getting the dman we want is the ones traded are usually those due for a big raise. Someone approaching ufa, that a cap strapped team needs to trade before they get a 7 yr 6 mil contract, which is presumably the caliber of player we are after, also has to be recruited, as they will be a ufa. Which is another reason we need to draft and develop a team before we can make that move, so that we have a team good enough to entice a ufa to sign.

If there was great dman out there we could get, im sure Murray would try. But why must it be plugged now? What's the hurry? We are a contender but for that deal? We need to pay the price and make the sacrifice now or all our development goes down the drain and the window closes? I see no need for such a shortcut attempt. We can still be the tortoise and not the hare

The pressure is that most of the rest of this team is ready to do something, but that defense is bottom of the barrel because the mid-pairing is garbage. The tortoise will watch Anderson decline, while we fail to develop a suitable replacement. Then we won't be as good as we were (1999-2008), but our goaltending will be just as bad as it was. We also have to worry about the budget, because a lot of kids are stepping up under small contracts. We need to make the move while those contracts are still small. We currently have plenty of crap contracts to move to offset a big contract right now. It will be more difficult when those deals expire and more of our players are actually earning their salaries. Due to the age of the forwards,we could afford to deal forward prospects to make this deal happen. Not to mention the inherent risk in alienating the Norris winner on a cheap contract who needs to play 30 mins a game because the rest of the defense crops belongs on the bottom pairing. I'm assuming that he'll want to win something one of these days.

This is the time to make this deal. Not when our goaltending is junk, Stone or Hoffman have priced themselves out of here and Karlsson has demanded a trade to a team that's serious about winning.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

We have a great top 6, a great goalie, and a superstar defenseman. We've done the hard part. The rest of pieces should be the easier ones to get (not "easy", just "easier"). That's what's frustrating.

For real. The problem is a philosophical one, and with Pierre Dorion the rumoured next GM, it isn't getting any easier. You have to hope Dorion learns from the new era and dumps Boro/Cowen and replaces them with some decent puckmovers or at least defencemen that can play hockey properly.

 

[Cosmix]

The team is 5th in scoring, MacArthur is the 6th best of the top-6 and there are some suitable replacements. Do you think a top-6 for MacArthur's injury is really that important?



This is how you build the skeleton of your team, not every last piece because that will never happen. You can't draft and develop a perfectly balanced team, all ready to peak at the same time. You get close and then you start making trades to fill the last few holes. Top 2-3 d-man for the left side is one of those last few holes, a massive one that needs to be plugged now.

I am concerned that MacArthur's concussion could be a long term injury. Certainly Turris, Ryan, Stone, and Hoffman are top 6 players. I don't think Zibanejad is consistently a top 6 player. I do think a Defenseman is a top priority over a forward.

 

[Micklebot]

Assuming we commit to improving the d, how do we do it.

Do we trade one Zibanejad, Hoffman, or Stone?

Do we trade prospects like Chabot, or White?

Or do we try and get a 2nd tier guy like Russell or Gunnarsson and hope for the best?

In the end, trading Cowen, Wier or Boro just won't cut it if you want 1 guy that will solve our problems, even if you add a 1st or pieces like Prince or Puempel. Waiting for Chabot is a long term approach, and even though he looks fantastic now, anything can happen.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Assuming we commit to improving the d, how do we do it.

Do we trade one Zibanejad, Hoffman, or Stone?

Do we trade prospects like Chabot, or White?

Or do we try and get a 2nd tier guy like Russell or Gunnarsson and hope for the best?

In the end, trading Cowen, Wier or Boro just won't cut it if you want 1 guy that will solve our problems, even if you add a 1st or pieces like Prince or Puempel. Waiting for Chabot is a long term approach, and even though he looks fantastic now, anything can happen.

I wouldn't want to trade Chabot with the way he is playing. We should use one of our many forward prospects(Puempel,Dzingel, Paul, Lindberg etc) and a pick for a trade.

OR if we are unwilling or unable to do a trade, sign someone in the offseason.

 

[officeglen]

"Patty's been real good the last while," said Cameron, who most recently put Wiercioch in the press box on Dec. 8. "He's making the simple reads, he's making the simple plays. He's competing. And he's getting back to the level that I think he finished the year at last year."

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/12/21/feast-or-famine-for-wiercioch

which of course means that before he was not making the simple reads, not making the simple plays, was not competing, and was not at the level he finished last season

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am concerned that MacArthur's concussion could be a long term injury. Certainly Turris, Ryan, Stone, and Hoffman are top 6 players. I don't think Zibanejad is consistently a top 6 player. I do think a Defenseman is a top priority over a forward.

Agree. I would go as far as Zib is seldom a top 6 player .... The team needs him to pick it up. He has a huge role.

 

[eddie416]

http://hockey-graphs.com/2015/12/22...ting-defensive-play-following-a-shot-attempt/

If you skip past the Sbisa stuff the article breaks down the Sens D-men. Interesting stats for sure.

Here's an image summary

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

http://hockey-graphs.com/2015/12/22...ting-defensive-play-following-a-shot-attempt/

If you skip past the Sbisa stuff the article breaks down the Sens D-men. Interesting stats for sure.

Good article. Wier is surprisingly better statistically here than I would have expected

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Assuming we commit to improving the d, how do we do it.

Do we trade one Zibanejad, Hoffman, or Stone?

Do we trade prospects like Chabot, or White?

Or do we try and get a 2nd tier guy like Russell or Gunnarsson and hope for the best?

In the end, trading Cowen, Wier or Boro just won't cut it if you want 1 guy that will solve our problems, even if you add a 1st or pieces like Prince or Puempel. Waiting for Chabot is a long term approach, and even though he looks fantastic now, anything can happen.

Depends. I'd be cool building from the defence out even if we give up top 6 forwards like Hoffman and stone

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/12/21/feast-or-famine-for-wiercioch

which of course means that before he was not making the simple reads, not making the simple plays, was not competing, and was not at the level he finished last season

And Chiasson deserves 2nd line RW time now that Ryan is hurt. He has been on quite a tear and I have been somewhat critical of him.

 

[trentmccleary]

I am concerned that MacArthur's concussion could be a long term injury. Certainly Turris, Ryan, Stone, and Hoffman are top 6 players. I don't think Zibanejad is consistently a top 6 player. I do think a Defenseman is a top priority over a forward.

Ryan, Turris, Stone and Hoffman are top line players.
Zibanejad is clearly a 2nd line player and there really shouldn't be any doubt.

MacArthur is great as a #6, but Michalek can still perform and Puempel/Prince can be given chances in the role. Not to mention that Chiasson has some decent seasons in his young career and could fill in short term. Some teams wouldn't even have a 'MacArthur'; it would just be a structural hole that reclaimation projects, young NHL'ers and prospects would constantly fight over.

Assuming we commit to improving the d, how do we do it.

Do we trade one Zibanejad, Hoffman, or Stone?

Do we trade prospects like Chabot, or White?

Or do we try and get a 2nd tier guy like Russell or Gunnarsson and hope for the best?

In the end, trading Cowen, Wier or Boro just won't cut it if you want 1 guy that will solve our problems, even if you add a 1st or pieces like Prince or Puempel. Waiting for Chabot is a long term approach, and even though he looks fantastic now, anything can happen.

Find creative ways to take on money.

Cowen and Greening for Marc Staal. Ottawa saves a little money for two years and then starts paying Staal. It's one roster spot for one roster spot. NYR save lots of cap space. Cowen is easier to trade if it doesn't work out for them. They bury Greening too.

or

Trade for older reclaimation projects, which don't require 'A' type assets.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

2009-2010 4/30 rank in shots against
Coach Cory Clouston
Top 4 d by ice time
Kuba
Phillips
Volchenkov
Karlsson


2010-2011 20/30
Coach Clouston
Top 4 d by ice time
Karlsson
Gonchar
Phillips
Kuba

2011-2012 29/30
Coach Maclean
Top 4
Karlsson
Kuba
Gonchar
Phillips

2012-2013 23/30
Coach Maclean

Top 4
Karlsson(injured Achilles)
Gonchar
Methot
Phillips
Cowen(7 games)
Gryba



2013-2014 29/30

Coach Maclean

Karlsson
Methot
Cowen
Phillips


2014-2015 25/30
Coach Maclean=29th Coach Cameron finished 25th

Top 4 d
Karlsson
Methot
Phillips(injury 30 games)
Ceci
Cowen/Wier


2015-2016 30/30

Coach Cameron

Top 4
Karlsson
Metho
Ceci
Wier

The last time the sens were good defensively is when Karlsson had a significantly smaller role. 3 different coaches with 9 different top 4 dmen have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in SA with karlsson as the number 1 d.

Im not saying its his fault entirely but he does share some of the blame. We really havent a good 2nd pairing in years though. At this point a coaching change does nothing

 

[MiscBrah]

The last time the sens were good defensively is when Karlsson had a significantly smaller role. 3 different coaches with 9 different top 4 dmen have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in SA with karlsson as the number 1 d.

Im not saying its his fault entirely but he does share some of the blame. We really havent a good 2nd pairing in years though. At this point a coaching change does nothing

Great breakdown. My biggest take-away is how pitiful out defence has been for years now.

I don't really blame EK because there is always an overwhelming positive shot differential when he is on the ice.

 

[Super Cake]

It has been 3+ straight years of bad defense.

Nothing will change though unless Melnyk decides to spend more money.

This whole money in money out crap won't allow us to improve.

If Melnyk seriously cares about the team and wants them to win a cup, he has to allow the gm to spend more.

Otherwise it is just going to be the same **** year after year. Consistently waiting for our defensive prospects to develop and save us.

 

[Micklebot]

2009-2010 4/30 rank in shots against
Coach Cory Clouston
Top 4 d by ice time
Kuba
Phillips
Volchenkov
Karlsson


2010-2011 20/30
Coach Clouston
Top 4 d by ice time
Karlsson
Gonchar
Phillips
Kuba

2011-2012 29/30
Coach Maclean
Top 4
Karlsson
Kuba
Gonchar
Phillips

2012-2013 23/30
Coach Maclean

Top 4
Karlsson(injured Achilles)
Gonchar
Methot
Phillips
Cowen(7 games)
Gryba



2013-2014 29/30

Coach Maclean

Karlsson
Methot
Cowen
Phillips


2014-2015 25/30
Coach Maclean=29th Coach Cameron finished 25th

Top 4 d
Karlsson
Methot
Phillips(injury 30 games)
Ceci
Cowen/Wier


2015-2016 30/30

Coach Cameron

Top 4
Karlsson
Metho
Ceci
Wier

The last time the sens were good defensively is when Karlsson had a significantly smaller role. 3 different coaches with 9 different top 4 dmen have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in SA with karlsson as the number 1 d.

Im not saying its his fault entirely but he does share some of the blame. We really havent a good 2nd pairing in years though. At this point a coaching change does nothing

2009-10 Kuba was injured and was 5th in total icetime, Karlsson 6th, (7th and 6th respectively in 5v5 icetime) They both had less SA/60 than anyone above them

2010-11 Karlsson was certainly part of our shots against issues.

2011-12 Karlsson had 3rd fewest shots against per 60, only Gilroy (traded for at the deadline) and Cowen had less.

2012-13 Karlsson played all of 17 games, so not worth looking into. With all the injuries, a more defensive system was adopted.

2013-14 Methot and Gryba were the only regulars with lower SA/60

2014-15 Wier and Methot had less, but also missed significant time

2015-16 Karlsson currently has the lowest SA/60.

I think the problem is depth on D myself.