Proposal: Ottawa - Minnesota before Expansion Draft

[Hale The Villain]

I'd shoot way higher than this for Dumba. White does nothing for us. 2nd would be ok as it is likely a higher 2nd. Lassi would be good too. Just think if we're moving Dumba, we need a better C coming back. If Lassi was a C prospect, I'd be all over this.

I doubt Dumba could get more given he's a UFA in two years, makes 7.4M in salary next season (6.3M average the next 2YRs). needs to be protected in expansion (limited market) and his production has dropped significantly the past two years.

 

[TSA0402]

My own very opinionated take on it is that Minnesota should be open to damn near any return for Dumba that isn't another ED-exposed defenseman. Basically any package of a forward and/or futures that is greater than the value of Carson Soucy (the guy that'll probably be selected if Dumba is traded) should be considered.


I know nothing about Lassi Thomson that isn't on his EliteProspects page, but that offer fits the criteria I've got in mind. We'd be overloaded with RD prospects, but after losing two top-4 caliber defensemen in one offseason that's probably not a bad thing.

Lassi Thomson is an RD prospect, former 1st rounder, I'd say he probably has dropped a bit in stock he is still a good to very good prospect. Is likely going to get his first taste in NHL soon.

If you think White can be a solid 3C with 2C upside, with OTT 2nd, that is a pretty good offer. I'd assume Wild would shoot for a bit more quality though.

FWIW Brannstrom is comfortable on the right side and has played a big portion of his career on the right. DJ Smith has refused to use him on the right because he doesn't believe in playing Dman on their off-side but he is able to play on the right and has stated that he likes to play on the right as well.

Minny and Ottawa could be good partners.

If DJ Smith refuses to use him on his preferred side, then him being able to play it is irrelevant. But yea those backhand plays that he has issues with at times would look better on the other side of the rink, that is for sure.

True, but its tough when both teams looking for a C.

 

[Boud]

If DJ Smith refuses to use him on his preferred side, then him being able to play it is irrelevant. But yea those backhand plays that he has issues with at times would look better on the other side of the rink, that is for sure.

True, but its tough when both teams looking for a C.

It's irrelevant for Ottawa, but maybe not for Minny if they would be willing to experiment with it. Brannstrom played RD for a while in the AHL in our system so it's not like he can't do it.

Senators believe left is right for prospect Erik Brannstrom - Sportsnet.ca

IMO Branny looks a lot more dynamic on the right.

 

[Bazeek]

I doubt Dumba could get more given he's a UFA in two years, makes 7.4M in salary next season (6.3M average the next 2YRs). needs to be protected in expansion (limited market) and his production has dropped significantly the past two years.

He definitely struggled after coming back from the torn pectoral, but he's been great this year. His production still isn't gaudy, but he's also been playing hard defensive minutes; he and Brodin have both been killing it this year. Plus the Wild's powerplay was mostly a joke until a few weeks ago. Probably not a coincidence that both the PP and Dumba have ignited after Evason started playing him where he belongs.

Lassi Thomson is an RD prospect, former 1st rounder, I'd say he probably has dropped a bit in stock he is still a good to very good prospect. Is likely going to get his first taste in NHL soon.

If you think White can be a solid 3C with 2C upside, with OTT 2nd, that is a pretty good offer. I'd assume Wild would shoot for a bit more quality though.

He's a different sort of player but he seems similar in upside to Eriksson-Ek: more of an offensive 2/3C than the defensive 2/3C that Ek is. I wouldn't at all mind having two of those.

 

[TSA0402]

It's irrelevant for Ottawa, but maybe not for Minny if they would be willing to experiment with it. Brannstrom played RD for a while in the AHL in our system so it's not like he can't do it.

Senators believe left is right for prospect Erik Brannstrom - Sportsnet.ca

IMO Branny looks a lot more dynamic on the right.

Right now Minnesota has too many RD. Part of the reason for the Dumba rumours.

He's a different sort of player but he seems similar in upside to Eriksson-Ek: more of an offensive 2/3C than the defensive 2/3C that Ek is. I wouldn't at all mind having two of those.

Also White was playing really well before injury. It all depends on if you see White as a dump or a player.

I see more the latter, I'd probably do the deal(hesitantly) but if traded I think White would end up a pretty good player. I'm assuming Minnesota would try for a prospect more like Bernard Docker considering how overpaid White is right now.

 

[Bazeek]

Also White was playing really well before injury. It all depends on if you see White as a dump or a player.

I see more the latter, I'd probably do the deal(hesitantly) but if traded I think White would end up a pretty good player. I'm assuming Minnesota would try for a prospect more like Bernard Docker considering how overpaid White is right now.

I probably feel more sanguine about White than I have any good reason to considering I barely see him play. If the Wild's pro scouts see adding White as jumping into another Victor Rask-esque relationship they'd probably want to avoid that.

 

[McJedi]

H

To Ottawa: Erik Brannstrom

To Minnesota: Jordan Greenway +

Minnesota likely protects 4 defensemen. They have 3 NMCs and Matt Dumba needs to be protected. They have two NMCs up front in Zuccarello and Parise. And two spots left to pick Fiala, Greenway, and Eriksson EK. They can't afford to give up a C so that leaves one of Fiala and Greenway left unprotected and I would imagine Fiala is protected. Would Minnesota be interested in trading Greenway + for Brannstrom, who doesn't need protection? Other pieces can be added to balance the value.

Avs fan here. I want the Wild to make this trade.

 

[BKarchitect]

I don’t think any of these offers are particularly good for Minnesota but given how little we’ve seen top 4 defenders like Schmidt and Toews go for when teams are up against situations they need to address - nothing would particularly surprise me.

If I’m the Wild I might just skip all the cute stuff and just say “Dumba is available, what is your best non-expansion protected assets offer for him” or just let him get picked, lick your wounds and move on. You’re gonna lose somebody solid regardless. Prepare for losing Dumba instead of opening up other holes in the roster that you don’t need to open up.

 

[Bazeek]

I don’t think any of these offers are particularly good for Minnesota but given how little we’ve seen top 4 defenders like Schmidt and Toews go for when teams are up against situations they need to address - nothing would particularly surprise me.

If I’m the Wild I might just skip all the cute stuff and just say “Dumba is available, what is your best non-expansion protected offer for him” or just let him get picked, lick your wounds and move on. You’re gonna lose somebody solid regardless. Prepare for losing Dumba instead of opening up other holes in the roster that you don’t need to open up.

I think the "let him get picked and lick your wounds" approach is probably what we end up with here. The argument for it is that it frees up $6m in cap space and we've got a ready replacement in Soucy, who's played well next to Brodin previously and should be able to hold his own in the top-4.

It really comes down to how much it bothers you to lose a 26 year old top-pairing defenseman for nothing, and whether you think Dumba's substantially more valuable than Soucy. I tend to think he is so the idea drives me nuts, but I'm just some dude.

 

[nstarjim]

H

Avs fan here. I want the Wild to make this trade.

You lost us all at avs fan here. We see you don't know what your talking about.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I'd shoot way higher than this for Dumba. White does nothing for us. 2nd would be ok as it is likely a higher 2nd. Lassi would be good too. Just think if we're moving Dumba, we need a better C coming back. If Lassi was a C prospect, I'd be all over this.

Maybe Logan Brown then, but then Lassi comes out and you take back a D with cap (Zaitsev).

 

[Sota Popinski]

Maybe Logan Brown then, but then Lassi comes out and you take back a D with cap (Zaitsev).

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHAHHHH
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAHHA

 

[Clamshells]

I'd shoot way higher than this for Dumba. White does nothing for us. 2nd would be ok as it is likely a higher 2nd. Lassi would be good too. Just think if we're moving Dumba, we need a better C coming back. If Lassi was a C prospect, I'd be all over this.

Logan Brown?

 

[TSA0402]

Yea.. lol Logan Brown is worth like a 4th-5th round pick at this point I'd have to think...

If Lassi was a C prospect his closest comparible would be Pinto or more likely Ridly Greig .

 

[McJedi]

You lost us all at avs fan here. We see you don't know what your talking about.

Making your team worse is my hope. So make that trade.

 

[57special]

I probably feel more sanguine about White than I have any good reason to considering I barely see him play. If the Wild's pro scouts see adding White as jumping into another Victor Rask-esque relationship they'd probably want to avoid that.

White has negative value at this point. He's overpaid, can't win a FO, and scores less than Nick Bjugstad. He's no improvement on what we have, AND his AAV is 4.75 for years to come- the rotting cherry on top is that the actual salary is over 5M going forward.

Tyson Jost has more value than him, to put it in perspective.

 

[McJedi]

White has negative value at this point. He's overpaid, can't win a FO, and scores less than Nick Bjugstad. He's no improvement on what we have, AND his AAV is 4.75 for years to come- the rotting cherry on top is that the actual salary is over 5M going forward.

Tyson Jost has more value than him, to put it in perspective.

Tyson Jost has grown into a very capable defensively responsible bottom six forward and excellent PK player. He has fantastic defensive metics and that improvement had been in this trajectory for three years now. Not what you expect from 10th OA but would be a good pick if he went 21st OA. He has far higher value than Colin White, also due to his much more appealing sub $1mm AAV. He’ll get a RFA raise this offseason and will be one of the 7 forwards the Avs protect.

Jost is a good NHL player in the appropriate role for his skill set and mental makeup.

 

[57special]

Tyson Jost has grown into a very capable defensively responsible bottom six forward and excellent PK player. He has fantastic defensive metics and that improvement had been in this trajectory for three years now. Not what you expect from 10th OA but would be a good pick if he went 21st OA. He has far higher value than Colin White, also due to his much more appealing sub $1mm AAV. He’ll get a RFA raise this offseason and will be one of the 7 forwards the Avs protect.

Jost is a good NHL player in the appropriate role for his skill set and mental makeup.

I know, but no one thinks that he is worth a 26 yo top pairing Dman. Being offered Colin White is an insult.

 

[McJedi]

I know, but no one thinks that he is worth a 26 yo top pairing Dman. Being offered Colin White is an insult.

Colin White is negative value. Pretty deeply negative value. Logan Brown has tiny value.

 

[MNRube]

Pinto is the target for MN is they are dealing with Ottawa. Minnesota has a huge need for RHC that win a draw. Brannstrom is a nice prospect but Wild don't have a need for him. Something around Greenway/Dumba for Pinto makes much more sense for Guerin.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Colin White is negative value. Pretty deeply negative value. Logan Brown has tiny value.

This is gonna look like a really bad take in a few years. Values not high, but deeply negative it is not. He's going to be a very solid middle 6er, albeit likely a slightly overpaid one.

Just because a player would need to be traded for salary, doesn't mean they have negative value.

 

[McJedi]

This is gonna look like a really bad take in a few years. Values not high, but deeply negative it is not. He's going to be a very solid middle 6er, albeit likely a slightly overpaid one.

Just because a player would need to be traded for salary, doesn't mean they have negative value.

You’re saying he’s overpaid. That is how he’s negative value. paying that kind of money for a 3rd liner is expressly negative value. Ottawa is one of the worst teams in the NHL. They have cap space. And you’re telling me white has to go for cap reasons to help Ottawa. Dude, that is exactly the problem. Which better team with less cap space wants White for their 3rd line? The answer is no one. Which is why he isn’t getting traded unless you attach assets to cover for his negative value.

if Ottawa called any GM in the NHL today and said, we need to move White and can’t take back salary, what futures would you give us. 31 other GMs say, “you mean what futures is Ottawa attaching”.

Your best bet is to trade him for a bad contract from another team.

Like Loui Erickson , which has less term even though he’s a worse player. But no way Vancouver trades you Loui Erickson for Colin White. It’s White’s term that makes his deal so bad.

 

[Bazeek]

White has negative value at this point. He's overpaid, can't win a FO, and scores less than Nick Bjugstad. He's no improvement on what we have, AND his AAV is 4.75 for years to come- the rotting cherry on top is that the actual salary is over 5M going forward.

Tyson Jost has more value than him, to put it in perspective.

The face-offs do jump out as a negative, especially when we already struggle so badly there. The contract isn't great, but I don't think it's bad if he can serve as a top-9 center.

I'm less concerned about his point totals this year since it looks like he's been used mostly in a defensive role this year. He doesn't have a ton of powerplay time, but 2 goals and 2 (primary) assists in ~50 minutes isn't bad. It'd be good for like 3rd in Minnesota this year (which, uh.... not a high bar, I admit). Eye-test wise he seems like he's got a good shot and decent hands, so if he's been holding his own defensively on a struggling team I think it bodes well. One could say a lot of the same things about Hartman though, so maybe I'm just squinting at fool's gold here.

Jost worries me because he's only ever stood out as mediocre on some good Avalanche teams, but he also jumped into the NHL pretty young. Maybe he just takes the long way to figuring things out.

As for the value concerns, this is what happens when the GM puts himself behind the 8-ball. We can complain about lowball offers, but realistically Dumba's going to return nothing but the opportunity to not lose Soucy, Greenway or Foligno instead.

 

[TwiztedHeat]

This is gonna look like a really bad take in a few years. Values not high, but deeply negative it is not. He's going to be a very solid middle 6er, albeit likely a slightly overpaid one.

Just because a player would need to be traded for salary, doesn't mean they have negative value.

He might end up a fine 3C, but he does nothing for us. We have a younger better version of what you hope White becomes.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You’re saying he’s overpaid. That is how he’s negative value. paying that kind of money for a 3rd liner is expressly negative value. Ottawa is one of the worst teams in the NHL. They have cap space. And you’re telling me white has to go for cap reasons to help Ottawa.

Lol what the hell are you talking about. By no means does White have to go for cap reasons and I definitely never said that. The rest of your post is just rambling. A lot of players are overpaid and still have value. As I said, needing to take salary back doesn't mean negative value. It only means negative value if you refuse to take salary back, which Ottawa 1000% would not refuse. If White is traded (which I really don't expect), its almost certainly for a player who is better or similar and makes more or similar money.

He might end up a fine 3C, but he does nothing for us. We have a younger better version of what you hope White becomes.

No disagreement there, nowhere did I say Minnesota should target White. More likely he's a middle 6 RW, though, imo.

I'm less concerned about his point totals this year since it looks like he's been used mostly in a defensive role this year. He doesn't have a ton of powerplay time, but 2 goals and 2 (primary) assists in ~50 minutes isn't bad. It'd be good for like 3rd in Minnesota this year (which, uh.... not a high bar, I admit). Eye-test wise he seems like he's got a good shot and decent hands, so if he's been holding his own defensively on a struggling team I think it bodes well.

White's been solid outside of times when he's playing injured/recovering from injury. Hes a very good forechecker, goes to the net and stays there, good along the boards (although he still needs to get stronger). He's a quick, high motor player when he's on his game. Nothing special offensively, but I suspect he will settle in as a very useful 35-50 pt player.