Confirmed with Link: [OTT/STL] Sens acquire Ben Bishop for 2nd 2013, signed to 1yr ext

[BonkTastic]

Alright, so... 5 pages of trade analysis, 16 pages of "Lehner vs. Bishop"? I think I'm done here, at LEAST until Bishop plays his first ever game with the team.

 

[sens83]

Alright, so... 5 pages of trade analysis, 16 pages of "Lehner vs. Bishop"? I think I'm done here, at LEAST until Bishop plays his first ever game with the team.

This is perhaps the most classic thing i've seen in a while, thanks for the laugh!

 

[trentmccleary]

I 100% agree Bishop will be in Ottawa next season. That's written in stone IMO. What's not written in stone, again IMO, is Lehner not being in Ottawa. Based on how the rest of this season goes and this is probably less likely to happen but if Lehner proves and the organization believes he is an NHL goaltender I don't think it's impossible that they trade Anderson to upgrade the top 6.

Yikes, you're jumping the gun here. Lehner is nowhere near unseating Anderson for the playoffs or replacing him for next season. He's struggled in the AHL this season and will likely be there again next season to see if he can master that level... by showing the maturity and consistency that a pro needs to succeed at the highest level.

Keep it in perspective; he's played two adrenaline filled games after a call-up, one of which was a against the Islanders.

Lehner and Bishop next year? ... Only if we want to finish last. Look at the roller coaster that the Leafs have to endure in goal with their inexperienced, young goalies. And they were both much older and more experienced than these two. There's no way the team goes into a season with 2 goalies combining with 2 dozen games of experience. Heck, that doesn't sound like a plan that any team would make. It sounds a like a nightmare scenario that the Isles would find themselves in; starting Mannino with Dubliewicz backing up.

 

[Billy Madison*]

Yikes, you're jumping the gun here. Lehner is nowhere near unseating Anderson for the playoffs or replacing him for next season. He's struggled in the AHL this season and will likely be there again next season to see if he can master that level... by showing the maturity and consistency that a pro needs to succeed at the highest level.

Keep it in perspective; he's played two adrenaline filled games after a call-up, one of which was a against the Islanders.

Lehner and Bishop next year? ... Only if we want to finish last. Look at the roller coaster that the Leafs have to endure in goal with their inexperienced, young goalies. And they were both much older and more experienced than these two. There's no way the team goes into a season with 2 goalies combining with 2 dozen games of experience. Heck, that doesn't sound like a plan that any team would make. It sounds a like a nightmare scenario that the Isles would find themselves in; starting Mannino with Dubliewicz backing up.

Like I said and qualified many posts with my thoughts on Lehner being in Ottawa next year are based on Anderson not coming back in time for the playoffs and Lehner getting the starts then.

It was merely for discussion. Not to turn into a pissing match about who's ready, who's no, who's better, who's worse.

Fact of the matter is Bishop will be a goaltender in Ottawa next year. Anderson's injury, if worse than expected could cause the Sens to rethink their short term plans if Lehner proves to be an NHL goaltender and does well in the playoffs. If Anderson is back in the next couple of weeks then yes, I see Lehner playing out the year in the AHL and most of next year too if Anderson does come back and keep his form.

As for finishing in last place if they have Bishop and Lehner in Ottawa next year... what's that based on? Are you saying neither goalie is capable of playing in the NHL? That would be false at this point because Lehner has shown absolutely nothing that says he isn't ready for the NHL despite the season Bingo is having.

NHL>AHL... not sure how many people actually realize that. I have yet to hear an argument for Lehner not being NHL ready aside from "well, he didn't play like an all-star in the AHL"...

At this point how he played in the AHL matters so little it's not even worth discussing. He's playing well in the NHL, has more wins than Auld in 3 games (2 of those games big division rival games), and he hasn't done anything to disprove the people that say he is ready for the NHL.

 

[operasen]

Fact of the matter is Bishop will be a goaltender in Ottawa next year. Anderson's injury, if worse than expected could cause the Sens to rethink their short term plans if Lehner proves to be an NHL goaltender and does well in the playoffs. If Anderson is back in the next couple of weeks then yes, I see Lehner playing out the year in the AHL and most of next year too if Anderson does come back and keep his form.

Logical points.

Have we sorted out the Murray vs Murray comments on whether Bishop is waiver exempt for a number games (37?) next year as well as this year?

 

[D0C]

It's going to be Anderson/Bishop people. Bishop has a one-way contract and Lehner still needs some time in the AHL.

Auld will either be waived or will be spending time in the pressbox.

Only reason Lehner is still in Ottawa is because he had 2 good games and Auld is playing like poo. Bishop will be Anderson's backup, no doubt about it.

 

[operasen]

Should we now merge the two "young goalie" threads - basically debating the same issues

 

[Billy Madison*]

It's going to be Anderson/Bishop people. Bishop has a one-way contract and Lehner still needs some time in the AHL.

Auld will either be waived or will be spending time in the pressbox.

Only reason Lehner is still in Ottawa is because he had 2 good games and Auld is playing like poo. Bishop will be Anderson's backup, no doubt about it.

Like I have asked a million times already along with some others... what in Lehner's time in the NHL has shown he isn't NHL ready? What indicates he needs time in the AHL? Whether he is there next year or not in irrelevant but there is nothing as of yet that says he needs to be there. Nothing.

 

[trentmccleary]

As for finishing in last place if they have Bishop and Lehner in Ottawa next year... what's that based on?

It's based on the fact that young, inexperienced players are extremely streaky and fragile, plus we've seen this team collapse too many times in front of poor goaltending.

Are you saying neither goalie is capable of playing in the NHL?

Against the best of the NHL to help earn us a playoff spot? .. No, not even close.

NHL>AHL... not sure how many people actually realize that. I have yet to hear an argument for Lehner not being NHL ready aside from "well, he didn't play like an all-star in the AHL"

Consistency and professionalism are the same in every league. It seems like Lehner has some growing to do.

These past few games have me excited about what he could become, but make no mistake... a whiny ***** isn't any sort of professional that will make it in the NHL.

It's going to be Anderson/Bishop people. Bishop has a one-way contract and Lehner still needs some time in the AHL.

Auld will either be waived or will be spending time in the pressbox.

Only reason Lehner is still in Ottawa is because he had 2 good games and Auld is playing like poo. Bishop will be Anderson's backup, no doubt about it.

This.

the only way Lehner makes the NHl is to beat Bishop for the back-up spot.

Should we now merge the two "young goalie" threads - basically debating the same issues

No, we should probably just close the trade thread down and post in the young goalies thread.

Like I have asked a million times already along with some others... what in Lehner's time in the NHL has shown he isn't NHL ready? What indicates he needs time in the AHL? Whether he is there next year or not in irrelevant but there is nothing as of yet that says he needs to be there. Nothing.

All of last season... which is all but 3 games of his entire NA pro career.

 

[Billy Madison*]

It's based on the fact that young, inexperienced players are extremely streaky and fragile, plus we've seen this team collapse too many times in front of poor goaltending.



Against the best of the NHL to help earn us a playoff spot? .. No, not even close.



Consistency and professionalism are the same in every league. It seems like Lehner has some growing to do.

These past few games have me excited about what he could become, but make no mistake... a whiny ***** isn't any sort of professional that will make it in the NHL.



This.

the only way Lehner makes the NHl is to beat Bishop for the back-up spot.



No, we should probably just close the trade thread down and post in the young goalies thread.



All of last season... which is all but 3 games of his entire NA pro career.

First bold is an opinion and one I totally disagree with because there is no basis to say you're opinion is in any way true.

Second bold there is no basis for either. At best it's a guess on yours and others parts.

Stupid me... I thought he backstopped and entire team and was the AHL playoff MVP. I must have missed that one.

 

[trentmccleary]

First bold is an opinion and one I totally disagree with because there is no basis to say you're opinion is in any way true.

You're right. We just have to watch how every time 'playoffs' are mentioned in Ontario, blue hockey pants are cleaned for urine stains. I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the lack of experience for Reimer, Gustavssan, Phaneuf, Kessel, etc.

Second bold there is no basis for either. At best it's a guess on yours and others parts.

He's proven very little and we can't count on him. It doesn't take much to project that out.

Stupid me... I thought he backstopped and entire team and was the AHL playoff MVP. I must have missed that one.

Then having the maturity to perform in the regular season should be a cake walk... wooops.

 

[Billy Madison*]

You're right. We just have to watch how every time 'playoffs' are mentioned in Ontario, blue hockey pants are cleaned for urine stains. I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the lack of experience for Reimer, Gustavssan, Phaneuf, Kessel, etc.



He's proven very little and we can't count on him. It doesn't take much to project that out.



Then having the maturity to perform in the regular season should be a cake walk... wooops.

He has to prove it for sure, no one is saying hand him anything especially myself. I am saying right now, there is nothing to indicate at the NHL level he isn't ready to see time in goal, a lot of time at that. The AHL is totally irrelevant if he proves himself to be a NHL goaltender.

Does it matter if he can stop a puck in the AHL if he doesn't let one past him in the NHL? Pretty easy answer.

 

[trentmccleary]

He has to prove it for sure, no one is saying hand him anything especially myself. I am saying right now, there is nothing to indicate at the NHL level he isn't ready to see time in goal, a lot of time at that. The AHL is totally irrelevant if he proves himself to be a NHL goaltender.

Does it matter if he can stop a puck in the AHL if he doesn't let one past him in the NHL? Pretty easy answer.

Would you say that 27 games is a little bit more proof than 3 games?

 

[Billy Madison*]

Would you say that 27 games is a little bit more proof than 3 games?

Which 27 games? The ones in the AHL? I'm of the opinion until he shows he isn't ready or can't do the job at the NHL level then all options should be left open.

We'll see how the rest of the season goes but right now Lehner looks like an NHL goaltender capable of winning games for/with the Sens. Yes or no?

 

[trobby]

If Lehner shows he can do the job while Anderson is out, next year we could very well see Lehner and Bishop as the tandem.

That's a big IF....Anderson would need to falter need the end of the regular season or playoffs and make himself expendable...his salary is low enough to trade (Tampa?)

I also don't agree with Lehner's AHL assessment this season....he proved he could win the big one with a capable team in front of him...mentally he's ready for the next step.

 

[Billy Madison*]

if lehner shows he can do the job while anderson is out, next year we could very well see lehner and bishop as the tandem.

That's a big if....anderson would need to falter need the end of the regular season or playoffs and make himself expendable...his salary is low enough to trade (tampa?)

i also don't agree with lehner's ahl assessment this season....he proved he could win the big one with a capable team in front of him...mentally he's ready for the next step.

respect

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Not to say that Anderson isn't playing awesome, but I still don't like that 4-year contract Murray gave him.

I understand that the term was probably why he signed here, but still, if Bishop and Lehner pan out there's an odd man out

 

[Billy Madison*]

Not to say that Anderson isn't playing awesome, but I still don't like that 4-year contract Murray gave him.

I understand that the term was probably why he signed here, but still, if Bishop and Lehner pan out there's an odd man out

The contract was the right one to give. It allowed for something to go wrong in terms of development with Lehner or having time to go out and find someone who can step in sometime in the future (like Bishop).

Everything is happening in Ottawa a lot quicker than anyone expected and this "rebuild" may have some tougher decisions to make in much shorter time than expected as well.

 

[Billy Madison*]

Just so people know my stance, I love all 3 goaltenders Ottawa has, but at some point (a lot sooner than I think people want to admit or realize) a decision will have to be made.

 

[SpezDispenser]

...or, we take our time, let Lehner develop for another year while continuing to get solid tending from Anderson with Bishop backing up instead of Auld...

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Ok, but what about the other 2 years?

Lets say for arguments sake that Lehner is NHL-ready after playing another full AHL season next year, and Bishop shows that he's a decent NHL goalie after playing 20+ games behind Anderson. What does Murray do?

 

[Billy Madison*]

Ok, but what about the other 2 years?

Lets say for arguments sake that Lehner is NHL-ready after playing another full AHL season next year, and Bishop shows that he's a decent NHL goalie after playing 20+ games behind Anderson. What does Murray do?

Trade him? There's always a team looking for a goaltender and Anderson's salary is on the low side.

If Lehner proves he's NHL ready right now trading Anderson for top 6 help wouldn't be a bad move at all. Lehner has to leave little to no doubt though otherwise you go back with Anderson for the next season for sure.

 

[D0C]

Ok, but what about the other 2 years?

Lets say for arguments sake that Lehner is NHL-ready after playing another full AHL season next year, and Bishop shows that he's a decent NHL goalie after playing 20+ games behind Anderson. What does Murray do?

Should we really get ahead of ourselves?

That's why Murray is the GM, it's his job to know what to do.

Having 2 great goalies in Ottawa would be an awesome problem to have.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Ok, but what about the other 2 years?

Lets say for arguments sake that Lehner is NHL-ready after playing another full AHL season next year, and Bishop shows that he's a decent NHL goalie after playing 20+ games behind Anderson. What does Murray do?

Trade Bishop - which was an odd acquisition anyway. Don't get me wrong, I love his size, skill and numbers in the A, but a one year contract? Hmmmm...how's that gonna work with Anderson locked in for another three years - and proving his worth to this organization - and with Lehner getting better and better.

Whatever, it's better to have this problem than to have Auld and Gerber.

 

[Beville]

You all want two rookies instead of a seasoned vet...



Andy is here to stay...

Bish has established MORE than Lehner.

Bish therefore, will most probably, back up Andy.

Lehner, has achieved very little, therefore will back stop the entire AHL team.

Andy, has achieved more than all. He is a seasoned NHL vet. He will therefore be the starter. Neither Bish, nor Lehner, will be the starter.

Keh?