Confirmed with Link: [OTT/STL] Sens acquire Ben Bishop for 2nd 2013, signed to 1yr ext

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Billy Madison*

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Trade Bishop - which was an odd acquisition anyway. Don't get me wrong, I love his size, skill and numbers in the A, but a one year contract? Hmmmm...how's that gonna work with Anderson locked in for another three years - and proving his worth to this organization - and with Lehner getting better and better.

Whatever, it's better to have this problem than to have Auld and Gerber.

Why would you not trade the guy with more salary owed to him, who's older, and who has decent trade value?

Bishop should be considered a goaltender of the future, just like Lehner. Both have to prove they are NHL goaltenders though and leave, like I said, little to no doubt.

You trade a 31 year old goaltender who is owed close to 7 mil before you trade a 26 year old who is owed less than a mil.
 

SpezDispenser

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Aug 15, 2007
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Why would you not trade the guy with more salary owed to him, who's older, and who has decent trade value?

Bishop should be considered a goaltender of the future, just like Lehner. Both have to prove they are NHL goaltenders though and leave, like I said, little to no doubt.

You trade a 31 year old goaltender who is owed close to 7 mil before you trade a 26 year old who is owed less than a mil.

Bishop doesn't even have a contract after this year though.

What we need is a young goaltender that we can control for the next 5 years to play in the AHL, what Bishop is (to me) is a stop gap as Lehner plays a year in the A, then makes the jump to the NHL. I'll admit that Anderson could be bait in the 4th year of his contract, but you don't want two inexperienced tenders tandeming - it can lead to a lot of issues.
 

Billy Madison*

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You all want two rookies instead of a seasoned vet...

:facepalm:

Andy is here to stay...

Bish has established MORE than Lehner.

Bish therefore, will most probably, back up Andy.

Lehner, has achieved very little, therefore will back stop the entire AHL team.

Andy, has achieved more than all. He is a seasoned NHL vet. He will therefore be the starter. Neither Bish, nor Lehner, will be the starter.

Keh?

Bishop will be in Ottawa next year, he won't be in Bingo. Whether that's backing up Anderson, as the starter, or backing up Lehner, he's in Ottawa next year 100% for sure.

As for 2 rookies... Lehner is going to be a rookie at some point, lol, hate to say it but you have to be a rookie before you can be a sophomore or a vet. Will the arguement next year be "you want a backup and a rookie as your goaltenders?".

What does it matter if he's a rookie who can do the job? He's showing he can do the job and if he is the goalie come playoff time because Anderson isn't ready and does the job there too... then what? This is how goalie and players in general get a chance to show their worth, opportunity.

Is there some update on Anderson anyways?
 

Billy Madison*

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Bishop doesn't even have a contract after this year though.

What we need is a young goaltender that we can control for the next 5 years to play in the AHL, what Bishop is (to me) is a stop gap as Lehner plays a year in the A, then makes the jump to the NHL. I'll admit that Anderson could be bait in the 4th year of his contract, but you don't want two inexperienced tenders tandeming - it can lead to a lot of issues.

If they can do the job they can do the job, it's that simple. They need to prove it though.
 

SpezDispenser

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If they can do the job they can do the job, it's that simple. They need to prove it though.

If I lose that bet with you, it's because Anderson goes down for 20 games and Bishop destroys it in his absence. Otherwise, Lehner just needs to play hard in Bingo, work on whatever they tell him to work on and set his sights on playing in 13/14. I know what you're saying, if a goalie can stop the puck, you play him, but in this instance the GM of our club went out and bought a stop-gap to ensure Lehner gets more seasoning - and Lehner shouldn't look at that in a negative way IMO.
 

Billy Madison*

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If I lose that bet with you, it's because Anderson goes down for 20 games and Bishop destroys it in his absence. Otherwise, Lehner just needs to play hard in Bingo, work on whatever they tell him to work on and set his sights on playing in 13/14. I know what you're saying, if a goalie can stop the puck, you play him, but in this instance the GM of our club went out and bought a stop-gap to ensure Lehner gets more seasoning - and Lehner shouldn't look at that in a negative way IMO.

If Lehner steals the job, he steals it. It's not black and white like a lot of people are making it out to be in terms of contracts and who plays.

Anderson does have trade value, Lehner is proving (at the moment) he can play in the NHL. IMO it will come down to if Anderson is healthy enough or ready to start the playoffs, if he is Lehner probably starts the year in the AHL, if he isn't, well it's anyone ball game at that point and IMO it will be Lehner's job to lose.
 

Ice-Tray

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If Lehner steals the job, he steals it. It's not black and white like a lot of people are making it out to be in terms of contracts and who plays.

Anderson does have trade value, Lehner is proving (at the moment) he can play in the NHL. IMO it will come down to if Anderson is healthy enough or ready to start the playoffs, if he is Lehner probably starts the year in the AHL, if he isn't, well it's anyone ball game at that point and IMO it will be Lehner's job to lose.


Wow, all this fairly land talk is making me think of unicorns, rainbows, and lollipops...

Shiny guy comes in and plays solid for a couple of games and all of a sudden people are dreaming of him starting for us next year and trading Andy... This ain't NHL 2012.

Anderson is our best goaltender by a long shot, he's one of the top tenders in the league right now. Lehner is a 20 year old rookie with very little NHL experience who has yet to show he can play at a consistently good level in the AHL during the grind of a long season. He's going to be great, we hope, but he hasn't unseated McKenna in Bingo let alone Andy in Ottawa.

Unless Andy gets shot in the face, there is no reasonable scenario where Bishop and Lehner are the tandem we go forward with. Fantasy aside, it is most obviously going to be Andy/Bishop next year. The reality is that as long as Andy continues to be our best goalie, he will be our starter. Why would we want it any other way?

Like with Zimba and Silf, there will be much griping from some fans who have a different development path laid out for Lehner, but ultimately, like our other Swedes, we'll be happy with the path he actually takes. Randy Lee knows what he's doing.
 

Billy Madison*

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Wow, all this fairly land talk is making me think of unicorns, rainbows, and lollipops...

Shiny guy comes in and plays solid for a couple of games and all of a sudden people are dreaming of him starting for us next year and trading Andy... This ain't NHL 2012.

Anderson is our best goaltender by a long shot, he's one of the top tenders in the league right now. Lehner is a 20 year old rookie with very little NHL experience who has yet to show he can play at a consistently good level in the AHL during the grind of a long season. He's going to be great, we hope, but he hasn't unseated McKenna in Bingo let alone Andy in Ottawa.

Unless Andy gets shot in the face, there is no reasonable scenario where Bishop and Lehner are the tandem we go forward with. Fantasy aside, it is most obviously going to be Andy/Bishop next year. The reality is that as long as Andy continues to be our best goalie, he will be our starter. Why would we want it any other way?

Like with Zimba and Silf, there will be much griping from some fans who have a different development path laid out for Lehner, but ultimately, like our other Swedes, we'll be happy with the path he actually takes. Randy Lee knows what he's doing.

Haha cute post but like you and so many others, not one person has said or given any proof of Lehner not being NHL ready right now.

Lehner has done nothing but play fantastic hockey at the NHL level at this point and if he continues to do so he could steal the job. It's happened before, it can happen again.

Also, stating "Anderson is our best goaltender by a long shot" is an opinion. One that might be shared by a lot of people but not one I agree with. I think Lehner is a better goaltender than Anderson right now.

As far as the AHL is concerned, people use that to try and prove a point like it actually mattered how he played there a lot of the year. Bingo is a disaster and truth of the matter is Lehner was not awful behind them.

He might not be AHL ready but he looks NHL ready, lol. That's basically what I'm hearing from you.
 

Iamok

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Oct 20, 2010
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Lehner's also played just 3 games, so it's hardly unreasonable to be skeptical given that his play in Bingo has been not up to standard. If Lehner plays like this for the remainder of the year/next year, then obviously he'll get serious consideration. But the fact remains that with such a small sample size, there's no reason to believe that he will.
 

DG

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I like how after all of these years, with all of the terrible goaltending we have, we have a solid starting goalie, finally, and two young great goaltending "prospects" (or NHL ready goalies depending on your viewpoint), and we're actually upset about this and trying to figure out which one to shuttle out as quickly as possible. :facepalm:
 

Ice-Tray

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Haha cute post but like you and so many others, not one person has said or given any proof of Lehner not being NHL ready right now.

Lehner has done nothing but play fantastic hockey at the NHL level at this point and if he continues to do so he could steal the job. It's happened before, it can happen again.

Also, stating "Anderson is our best goaltender by a long shot" is an opinion. One that might be shared by a lot of people but not one I agree with. I think Lehner is a better goaltender than Anderson right now.

As far as the AHL is concerned, people use that to try and prove a point like it actually mattered how he played there a lot of the year. Bingo is a disaster and truth of the matter is Lehner was not awful behind them.

He might not be AHL ready but he looks NHL ready, lol. That's basically what I'm hearing from you.

You're hearing wrong, I've never said he looks NHL ready. He's played a couple good sheltered games when called up, like most rookies do. He's struggled with consistency in the AHL which makes his NHL readiness questionable. Pretty sure this is why management went out and picked up Bishop.

But really, There is no point in discussing this issue with someone who has claimed that Lehner is better than Anderson, based on Lehner's two game performance.
 
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Ice-Tray

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Lehner's also played just 3 games, so it's hardly unreasonable to be skeptical given that his play in Bingo has been not up to standard. If Lehner plays like this for the remainder of the year/next year, then obviously he'll get serious consideration. But the fact remains that with such a small sample size, there's no reason to believe that he will.

I seems "but I LIKE him" is all the reasoning some people need.... :laugh:
 

ChocolateLeclaire

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Jan 12, 2010
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Haha cute post but like you and so many others, not one person has said or given any proof of Lehner not being NHL ready right now.

Lehner has done nothing but play fantastic hockey at the NHL level at this point and if he continues to do so he could steal the job. It's happened before, it can happen again.

Also, stating "Anderson is our best goaltender by a long shot" is an opinion. One that might be shared by a lot of people but not one I agree with. I think Lehner is a better goaltender than Anderson right now.

As far as the AHL is concerned, people use that to try and prove a point like it actually mattered how he played there a lot of the year. Bingo is a disaster and truth of the matter is Lehner was not awful behind them.

He might not be AHL ready but he looks NHL ready, lol. That's basically what I'm hearing from you.

Here's Lehner's "fantastic" stats for every game he has played.

GP 11
4W-4L-0OTL
GAA 2.18
SV% .909


I remember a Lehner who late last year looked very out of place at times. Like the game against Detroit where Johan Franzen had his way with him?

So far, his two latest wins have been against the Islanders, a team that, one week prior, was shut out 6-0 by the Senators and a Boston Bruins team that had been shut out 4 times previously in the month of February.

I love Lehner, but color me skeptical that this small sample size is a stronger indication of his play than his play in the AHL this season has shown.
 

Billy Madison*

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I like how after all of these years, with all of the terrible goaltending we have, we have a solid starting goalie, finally, and two young great goaltending "prospects" (or NHL ready goalies depending on your viewpoint), and we're actually upset about this and trying to figure out which one to shuttle out as quickly as possible. :facepalm:

That's the conclusion you drew? Find me a quote where ANYONE said that "it's this way and that's it" besides sending Lehner down to the AHL, a league which he clearly needs to be in.
 

D0C

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Bishop doesn't even have a contract after this year though.

What we need is a young goaltender that we can control for the next 5 years to play in the AHL, what Bishop is (to me) is a stop gap as Lehner plays a year in the A, then makes the jump to the NHL. I'll admit that Anderson could be bait in the 4th year of his contract, but you don't want two inexperienced tenders tandeming - it can lead to a lot of issues.

You do realize that Bishop is a highly touted goalie 'prospect', and one that many considers to be the best goalie currently not in the NHL?

And to clarify, the one-year extension is for after this season. So Bishop will be in Ottawa this year and next season.

I for one can't believe we were able to get our hands on this guy. He will definitely push the other goalies to work harder. This is the best problem we could have asked for. 3 goalies who will fight for their position.

I think goalies are the least of our problems now.
 

Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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People are too obsessed with AGE in a rebuild. Anderson might be a great goalie at the end of 4 years and signed to another contract. He is not that old now or even in 3 years, and Lehner or Bishop will need to be great to unseat him as a starter.

Kuba is NOT that old. Resigning him for 2 or even 3 seasons is not a horrible idea. Rebuild doesn't mean only having young players... if you do that you suck. Like Edmonton.

Even Gonchar, is not easily replaceable, he has more points then Lidstrom. Dumping valuable veterans is not a good idea. We rebuilt the prospect base in a big way. Now we have TWO prospect goalies and a TON of prospect forwards. Now the thing to do is get some young prospect/NHL ready D-Men, and continue to be a good team.

Bishop IMO has nothing to do with Anderson. If Lehner doesn't turn out to be an NHL goalie we are screwed, now we have Bishop so two balls in the lottery, They could be like Gustavson in Toronto and never break out or both could become top goalies, Anderson is already a legit good reliable starter. If all 3 turn out we have lots of options on moving one of them, and it might not be Anderson.
 

DG

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That's the conclusion you drew? Find me a quote where ANYONE said that "it's this way and that's it" besides sending Lehner down to the AHL, a league which he clearly needs to be in.

So no one in here is implying that Lehner and/or Bishop should replace Anderson in the short or long run?
 

Billy Madison*

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So no one in here is implying that Lehner and/or Bishop should replace Anderson in the short or long run?

It depends. If Anderson is out for the season (like some are hinting at now) then the short run is Bishop and Lehner is it not?

You go from there based on their performance.
 

DJB

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If Bishop plays backup here next year and gets 20 starts, Murray will be able to convince him to sign another contract.

I don't beleive for one second that he is some sort of stop gap solution, I really think Murray beleives he has potential to be a starting goaltender.

Let's not forget that Murray is extremely good at convincing young players to stay and play for his teams. His past college history is evidence of that.

And hey, we have 3 quality goaltenders, if we can't find enough ice time for all 3, no doubt Murray will move the one that makes the most sense for the club going forward for another asset.

It's a great problem to have...
 

DG

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And hey, we have 3 quality goaltenders, if we can't find enough ice time for all 3, no doubt Murray will move the one that makes the most sense for the club going forward for another asset.

It's a great problem to have...

This is all I was trying to say. No need to rush a goalie out of here... we finally have multiple good NHL goaltending options... let's enjoy it.
 

Billy Madison*

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This is all I was trying to say. No need to rush a goalie out of here... we finally have multiple good NHL goaltending options... let's enjoy it.

I agree with this 100%. I was trying to create a discussion about what would happen if Lehner keeps doing what he's doing and gets a chance in the playoffs. Looks like it might happen now too.

I can guarantee Anderson won't be a 3.2 million dollar backup for 3 years.
 

aragorn

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This yr - Anderson & Auld unless they waive Auld which I doubt will happen.

Next yr - Anderson & Bishop

- I expect that both Bishop & Lehner will be up in Ottawa for the playoffs as part of the black aces. Bishop may even dress as the backup in the playoffs.
 

trentmccleary

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Just so people know my stance, I love all 3 goaltenders Ottawa has, but at some point (a lot sooner than I think people want to admit or realize) a decision will have to be made.

Neither have done anything to push Anderson out yet though. One hasn't played a second for the Sens, has barely played in the NHL at all and you're grossly overrating the other based on 2 games this week. This thread is worse than "Daugavins has made Nick Foligno expendable".

Why would you not trade the guy with more salary owed to him, who's older, and who has decent trade value?

Because young players offer virtually unlimited downside and have a nasty habit of taking steps backwards when you're counting on them. That's why people pair (consistent & established) vets with rookies to reduce the downside risk.

I like how after all of these years, with all of the terrible goaltending we have, we have a solid starting goalie, finally, and two young great goaltending "prospects" (or NHL ready goalies depending on your viewpoint), and we're actually upset about this and trying to figure out which one to shuttle out as quickly as possible. :facepalm:

18 seasons in the NHL now and I've been thinking that Anderson's season probably ranks up there in the top third of our starting goalie seasons. Could it get worse? ... Yeah, it could get a lot ****en' worse. Our history should be able to prove that to anybody.

HF poster "prospectitis" bravado won't save us when one of those kids ****s the bed for a month or two. When that happens, we're toast.

Hell, imagine if Turris were more important to this team right now. 4 points in his last 16 games. If he were our starting goalie, backed-up by somebody just as unreliable as he is right now... we'd probably have the same 10 losses in 11 games as the Leafs do right now.

People are too obsessed with AGE in a rebuild. Anderson might be a great goalie at the end of 4 years and signed to another contract. He is not that old now or even in 3 years, and Lehner or Bishop will need to be great to unseat him as a starter.

Kuba is NOT that old. Resigning him for 2 or even 3 seasons is not a horrible idea. Rebuild doesn't mean only having young players... if you do that you suck. Like Edmonton.

Anderson isn't too old. He's 30, which is two years older than 28yo Spezza. He's at a perfect age to play while the kid(s) develop and prove themselves or not.

Kuba is too old at 35yo. I appreciate what he's done this season, but we don't have prospects to replace him and we're already carrying Gonchar in our top-4. We need to sign a 30 or under D-man in the summer to help anchor the youngsters in our top-4 to manage our downside risk.
 

playasRus

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Mar 21, 2009
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Steve Mason, a good reason to not rush young players after a good year. I'd bet if we hadn't acquired Gonchar, Karlsson wouldn't be doing as well. It's different when ALL the attention and pressure is on you. Young players need to learn to cope with such strain slowly. With this theory, the sophomore slump arises when young players have break out years, their team thinks they can rely on them to carry the team going forward, and trade away vets/UFAs.

That's why I think it's best to ease Lehner in, no matter how fabulous he is in those games. 10ish games this year. 20ish games next year, then full time back up until he outduels the starter for the job.
 

Beville

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Steve Mason, a good reason to not rush young players after a good year. I'd bet if we hadn't acquired Gonchar, Karlsson wouldn't be doing as well. It's different when ALL the attention and pressure is on you. Young players need to learn to cope with such strain slowly. With this theory, the sophomore slump arises when young players have break out years, their team thinks they can rely on them to carry the team going forward, and trade away vets/UFAs.

That's why I think it's best to ease Lehner in, no matter how fabulous he is in those games. 10ish games this year. 20ish games next year, then full time back up until he outduels the starter for the job.

Brian's also a good example of a rushed keeper...

Why can't we just be patient with Lehner... Why rush him? Sure he's "NHL ready" by beating NYI, but still... Let him rip the crap out of the AHL (Like a certain Ben Bishop) and groom him like Bernier/Schneider 2.0...

Let's not lie, they're both beasty keepers, and as such, Lehner really can become a beast for us between the pipes if we grow him into a superb NHL keeper... There's nothing to harm Lehner by doing this, if he becomes demotivated then it's just his own selfish attitude taking over...

Bishop > Lehner...
 
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