OT: Other Sports aka #Broncos #SellRockiesSell #Nuggets
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expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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Can't see it, is it the Skyline jersey? Because YES, those need to come back.
I absolutely hate navy blue. It's as generic and boring a color as there is (yes, worse than black). And about 90% of professional sports teams use it in some form or another.
I can't understand why people like those MILE HIGH CITY uniforms either. Those are even worse, like they stole a template from the University of Kansas and just tweaked it slightly. The uniforms as a whole just look unfinished.
The litany of logos they introduced are nice though. I don't know if ya need that many of them but whatever.
I absolutely hate navy blue. It's as generic and boring a color as there is (yes, worse than black). And about 90% of professional sports teams use it in some form or another.
I can't understand why people like those MILE HIGH CITY uniforms either. Those are even worse, like they stole a template from the University of Kansas and just tweaked it slightly. The uniforms as a whole just look unfinished.
The litany of logos they introduced are nice though. I don't know if ya need that many of them but whatever.
Finally got to this, but here's their deadline acquisitions in each year they made the playoffs. I haven't had much time to provide backup info - I'm in the middle of moving into a new home. But I can't remember any time they really stretched themselves to go after a pennant. The only big move they've made in-season for a player down a playoff stretch was in '95 when they acquired Bret Saberhagen. I totally forgot about that trade - it was awesome watching him pitch in a Rockies uni even though he was definitely at the end of his career.
(I included 2017 here, even though it was a one game playoff)
2007
Ramon Ortiz
2009
Al Albuquerque
Rafael Betancourt
Joe Beimel
Jose Contreras
2017
Zac Rosscup
Pat Neshek
Jonathan Lucroy
Al Albuquerque may be one of the best Rockies player's names ever. What cruel parents.
Not sure I buy the not acquiring deadline acquisitions as "not throwing hard money to win the pennant." Since you know, Rockies have been mainly terrible around July, the bigger issue with them was not selling enough and being loyal to their players. The moves you make in the Winter and the amateur draft are more important than in July to win the pennant anyways.
The argument people made was that Monforts don't spend money, well they've been spending a ton of money lately. One of the biggest reasons they didn't spend money in the past, which 99% of the people that kept saying "Monforts should spend more money" didn't know or care to even find out, was that they have one of the worst TV deals in the league. I mean, Padres' revenue from their TV deal is 2x or 3x (can't remember which) than the Rockies. Even with that shitty TV deal they have until '20, they've spent a ton of money lately.
Monforts has backed Bridich with money to spend on free agents (even though Bridich has shown he's clueless in free agency time and time again), money to give extensions (Blackmon, Otto, etc.), money to sign rule IV draft picks, and used majority of their international bonus pools to sign players now instead of trading them way like they used to.
If people still believe Monforts only cared about making money, and not winning games, they should do more research on the team. It takes like 20 minutes to find the info. They're not the best owners, but it's not like they've been awful like most people think they are in the past decade or so.
I don't measure "good ownership" by how much the guy is willing to spend. If that were the case Jerry Jones and the late Ed Snider would be among the most celebrated owners in all of sports. I think the Monforts have been guilty of being cheapskates in the past, and they still are in some respects, but it's not like they haven't paid big money in the past and aren't paying good money now to bad players like Ian Desmond. I know the high-profile failures of Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle had a "chilling effect" on the Rox' desire to lure big-name free agents, but they weren't going to spend their way out of the hole.
No, I just think they're lazy, inattentive, ridiculously insular, incompetent, and deeply resentful of the fans who support the team.
No, I just think they're lazy, inattentive, ridiculously insular, incompetent, and deeply resentful of the fans who support the team.
I don't like comparing two different sports since each sport has completely different rules from one another. IE) NFL and NHL has a cap floor, MLB doesn't.
Sure the MLB team has been awful for majority of the time under the Monforts ownership, and like I said, were terrible before they gave the keys to Bridich but not sure I buy that they're deeply resentful of the fans, or lazy, etc. considering how much effort they put in to make Coors Field great.
Bill Peckerskull
Fargin' Icehole
I definitely think the Monforts are far more interested in spending money on the "fan experience" vs the actual product on the field.
And I'm not mocking them for this. It's honestly a smart business decision given that Denver fans are much more interested in being outside and drinking a margarita or a cocktail vs. watching baseball. Let's face it - the people in this city have huge interests in the outdoors and little interest in baseball. So the business approach makes sense. I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive or gusto behind actually driving the team towards a pennant. And as long as families attend the games in the droves, there's no reason for the Monforts to ever really change that business model. They have a cash flowing cow and they absolutely know it as long as they maintain their expenditures at a certain level.
The last free agent splurge was definitely Hampton and the other crappy guy they picked up from San Diego? Tulo became expensive and shipped off, likewise for Holliday, Ubaldo, Fowler....
The only guy on the list of major FA acquisitions by the Rockies has been Michael Cuddyer in the last 10 years.
A look at the Rockies' free-agent track record
I can't find evidence of where they have really spent a lot of money.
And I'm not mocking them for this. It's honestly a smart business decision given that Denver fans are much more interested in being outside and drinking a margarita or a cocktail vs. watching baseball. Let's face it - the people in this city have huge interests in the outdoors and little interest in baseball. So the business approach makes sense. I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive or gusto behind actually driving the team towards a pennant. And as long as families attend the games in the droves, there's no reason for the Monforts to ever really change that business model. They have a cash flowing cow and they absolutely know it as long as they maintain their expenditures at a certain level.
The last free agent splurge was definitely Hampton and the other crappy guy they picked up from San Diego? Tulo became expensive and shipped off, likewise for Holliday, Ubaldo, Fowler....
The only guy on the list of major FA acquisitions by the Rockies has been Michael Cuddyer in the last 10 years.
A look at the Rockies' free-agent track record
I can't find evidence of where they have really spent a lot of money.
Fielding a competitive team brings in higher revenue, so I find the "they care about fan experience more than the field on the product to make money" takes as BS. Just look at year by year attendance and the ticket prices for that year.
If you think think the last free agent splurge was on Hampton, then you're just not paying attention. Not spending money in free agency is better in MLB anyways.
They didn't trade away Tulo, Holiday, Fowler and Ubaldo because they got expensive btw. Could argue they traded them at the perfect time outside Tulo and they made a smart baseball trade at that time, which they should have done more of. If you wanted to use an example of trading away a player because they got expensive, you should have used Huston Street.
And like Holiday, I think they should trade Arenado this offseason if they can't re-sign him this winter.
we'll have to agree to disagree on this one then, because I just don't see any examples of where they are really stretching themselves to get better. I can't find a single instance outside of Cuddyer where they've been aggressively after a cornerstone player. That's fine if they haven't signed anyone, but they also haven't traded up for anyone either. The Rockies have been virtually non-existant when it comes to top tier free agents and for deadline acquisitions. If you disagree, please show me where they've shipped out and up for talent. Their entire focus is on building from within. But if someone comes to be too expensive, then the Rockies pass.
I guess a true test of this will be Arenado next. Hope to god they re-sign him, but if I had to bet my paycheck on him re-signing I'd probably take a hard pass on those odds.
They're kind of in the same funk as the Nuggets were for years and years - too proud to tank but too chintzy to spend any money or take risk. And the fanbase here (which JWK I think you are definitely a part of) seem pretty content with that. So why change if the money is still coming through the doors
I guess a true test of this will be Arenado next. Hope to god they re-sign him, but if I had to bet my paycheck on him re-signing I'd probably take a hard pass on those odds.
They're kind of in the same funk as the Nuggets were for years and years - too proud to tank but too chintzy to spend any money or take risk. And the fanbase here (which JWK I think you are definitely a part of) seem pretty content with that. So why change if the money is still coming through the doors
Cuddyer was like 32 when they signed him, not sure how you can say he's a cornerstone player. They gave Cuddyer 3 years 31.M. If you think he's a cornerstone player, do you think these guys are too? I'll say they were aggressive in getting these guys:
Gerardo Parra 3 years 27.5M
Ian Desmond 5 years 70M
Mike Dunn 3 years 19M
Bryan Shaw 3 years 27M
Jake McGee 3 years 27M
Wade Davis 3 years 52M
They just signed 3 of the better relievers on the market this Winter, but yeah, they're non-existent in free agency. Throwing money to players in free agency rarely works out btw. I'll be happier if the Rockies never go for top tier free agents.
Yeah, that's why they gave Tulo that big contract. Traded away Holiday because he didn't agree to their 100M+ contract offer, and signed one of the players they got back in that trade to a huge extension. They literally just gave another 100M+ contract to a homegrown player this year.
Like I said in a couple posts ago, they were never in position to buy because they were terrible in July. This past season, they gave up 4 solid prospects to get Neshek and Lucroy so when they had a chance, they went out and made a move even though it was going to be a 1 game WC if they made it. Trading away great prospects who you have control for years for cheap for deadline acquisitions are stupid unless you're winning the division and don't have to play in that play-in WC game.
@ me being content with the Rockies. Not sure how you think that way when I've mentioned countless of times Rockies management are idiots on here. I think I had them at around 80 wins coming into this Holy hell that line is hilarious. Also @ you thinking the fans are content with shitty product on the field. Do more research, really.
Well the point is, I think owners who just blindly throw money at the problem are nearly as bad as owners who try to nickel-and-dime every ounce of their operations. And I'll give the Monforts credit for not doing what a FULL THIRD of teams in MLB are doing and going out of their way to tank it. They could have easily done so, and they didn't.
But I'm not sure I'm with you on the "making Coors Field great" thing. Yes, they have maintained the ballpark, which is no easy task (just look at what that slimeball who used to own the Dodgers did to one of the most well-aged stadiums in baseball, it was practically falling apart by the time MLB intervened and essentially kicked him out), and the improvements made of late like the party deck are nothing short of brilliant (except for the "Bridich Barrier" in front of the bullpen. Get rid of that). But it's not like they weren't handed one of the most beautiful and well-designed parks in sports history when they took over. I'm glad they finally gave some fan service and did so very well, but that still doesn't erase a lot of the wrong they did previously and some of the wrong they're doing now.
The Monforts are not even close to being the worst owners in MLB, but I still don't like them, nor do I think the Rox will ever truly climb that hill until someone else is running the team.
I agree throwing money at players are terrible (especially in baseball) but most fans' criticism of Monforts were not spending money.
The roof top for casual fans were great, but I was mainly talking about replacing the outdated sound system which made the fan experience better at Coors better.
Sure people will never like Monforts and that's fine, but I disagree when people say they're an issue right now. They were an issue 5~10 years ago when they interfered with baseball decisions, but they've backed off. The most important task coming up for them is the new TV deal, if they f*** that up.....I don't even want to imagine that.
If anyone wants to watch Tyson Fury fight a bum, here's the official Showtime free live stream:
Also a legitimate fight on the card, Hooker vs Flanagan
Also a legitimate fight on the card, Hooker vs Flanagan
I thought the Shaw signing was good at the time.
I hope your argument is better than 32 yr old Michael Cuddyer is a cornerstone FA signing.
I hope your argument is better than 32 yr old Michael Cuddyer is a cornerstone FA signing.
Cuddyer is no cornerstone player at all - he's god awful, which if you read my post makes my point even further. He's the highest profile FA they've signed in the last 10 years, only because he had one great year when he had impending UFA and the Rockies actually bit on him like idiots.
.......so I'm waiting for the fireworks of all the wonderful things the Monforts have done on the field to improve the product. Because yeah - Cuddyer wasn't it...
Cuddyer is no cornerstone player at all - he's god awful, which if you read my post makes my point even further. He's the highest profile FA they've signed in the last 10 years, only because he had one great year when he had impending UFA and the Rockies actually bit on him like idiots.
.......so I'm waiting for the fireworks of all the wonderful things the Monforts have done on the field to improve the product. Because yeah - Cuddyer wasn't it...
Seems like you're calling him a cornerstone player but now he's god awful?
He had more than 1 good year with the Twins too and his contract was fine because he was actually good with the Rockies. The dumb thing they did was not trading him when he had decent value after '13, and then offering him a QO (which he declined which saved them) .
He's also not the highest profile FA they've signed btw.
I have, re-read my posts. I mean, you went from Michael Cuddyer is a cornerstone player to god awful in less than a day, that makes no sense. Explain that process to me.So you're picking the argument of Michael Cuddyer as a cornerstone player as your red herring?
tell me more about the Monforts and all of the wonderful things they do for the product on the field.....
All your posts make no sense anyways, and shows how clueless you are about the Rockies/baseball. Bashing a team for not being aggressive in FA (which is actually wrong with the Rockies like my previous posts says) is idiotic. FYI: They’ve also been aggressive in the IFA market lately, doubt you know anything about that. That’s actually the market you should be aggressive in.
There are things you can bash Monforts about their ownership recently, but you’re picking incorrect things. But hey, keep going with Monforts only care about fan experience at Coors instead of fielding a productive team myth considering you know, history has shown better team = higher revenue.
NHL Player: PK Subban, Joe Sakic, and Alex Ovechkin
NFL Player: Terrell Davis
NBA Player: Tim Duncan
Boxer: That Russian Guy
MLB Player: Mike Piazza or Ichiro
Rugby: Leigh Halfpenny
CHL: Josh Morrissey or Seth Jones
NCAAH: Tigres duo of Brett Sterling and Marty Sertich
Tennis: Stanislas Wawrinka, Caroline Wozniacki, and Maria Sharapova
Football: Santi Cazorla (this was really tough and not a very popular opinion except one of @Duchene2MacKinnon
)
NFL Player: Terrell Davis
NBA Player: Tim Duncan
Boxer: That Russian Guy
MLB Player: Mike Piazza or Ichiro
Rugby: Leigh Halfpenny
CHL: Josh Morrissey or Seth Jones
NCAAH: Tigres duo of Brett Sterling and Marty Sertich
Tennis: Stanislas Wawrinka, Caroline Wozniacki, and Maria Sharapova
Football: Santi Cazorla (this was really tough and not a very popular opinion except one of @Duchene2MacKinnon
)
Foppberg
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