Other Chicago & General Sports Thread LVI: Bulls Draft Lottery Watch

[LDF]

i just can't stand this. the Rule 5 actual draft is on Dec 8. i really don't see any big trades coming let alone a blockbuster one.

 

[piteus]

You guys been seeing this cubs trade rumor stuff? O’s calling about Baez/ Almora I guess. It’s all rumors at this point but I’m bored.

It better be for a ton of grade A cheap arms. Not surprising Buck wants great gloves for his team. He knows how to win.

 

[piteus]

For Illinois basketball fans ... you guys should beat Bucky. Wisconsin is terrible this year. If UVA could hit some of their wide open 3s and 8-9 easy short jumpers in the paint, they would have won by 25+ points. Wisconsin can neither shoot straight nor create off the dribble.

Illinois should beat Wake Forest in the B1G/ACC Challenge. That's a bad basketball team. It won't be easy on the road, but Illinois is the better team.

 

[Bubba88]

Ayton looks the part physically, but he hasn't looked as dominant as Bagley. Arizona looks awful. Bagley is the most dominant college player. At 6'11" and a huge wingspan, Bagley can play point center ... which would be a scary match up scenario.

I wasn't impressed by Bagley at first, but when you keep watching ... he is an athletic freak with high basketball IQ. If he figures out how to shoot (which is possible), Bagley will be unstoppable. He's also a great passer and rebounds like Rodman.

Embiid will be impossible to stop. However, if Bagley develops a jumper, how will Embiid stop him? He's that scary. Two different skill sets.

Ayton is playing more like a modern day C. Trying to help out on the 3 pt line. Bagley will end up at the 4 and Plays more near to the paint most of the time. Not sure if that is the best fit for Lauri.

Doncic should be the target anyways.

 

[LDF]

Ayton is playing more like a modern day C. Trying to help out on the 3 pt line. Bagley will end up at the 4 and Plays more near to the paint most of the time. Not sure if that is the best fit for Lauri.

Doncic should be the target anyways.

i agree with the comparison of Ayton and Bagley.

with the Bulls having the worst record at the moment, i am looking at the possibility of the Bulls picking in the top 3. with the players now on the team, who do you think the bulls will pick. a player of need ??

 

[Bubba88]

i agree with the comparison of Ayton and Bagley.

with the Bulls having the worst record at the moment, i am looking at the possibility of the Bulls picking in the top 3. with the players now on the team, who do you think the bulls will pick. a player of need ??

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. Bagley
4. Bamba
5. Porter

 

[LDF]

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. Bagley
4. Bamba
5. Porter

yes i can see the bulls in need of a guard, but i am not sold on Doncic defense playing out in the nba standard. 2nd with the bulls latest team conflict with portis and nikola. i was looking at one or both being traded.

so comes the question, rhetorical in a sense, but i think one of the bigs is the route to go ?? Ayton or Bagley looks to be a franchise kind of a big player. i think that is the route to go, imho. i feel sorry for Porter and his back surgery, but i would avoid him with a 10 ft pole.

with the bulls having Markkanen in the fold and this being his rookie yr and with the growth of Valetine and Dunn, they the bulls have a great core to build on.

btw, i appreciated the input.

 

[piteus]

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. Bagley
4. Bamba
5. Porter

Just watch Bagley for an entire game. He's the only reason Dook is #1. It's not about a position with Bagley. He can play anywhere. There's no way Ayton can stop Bagley. Bamba tried ... and got schooled. Bagley is a freak. Bagley is going for 30ppg and 15rpg against top competition with ease ... and Bagley hasn't even developed a right hand or jumper. Imagine when he puts that in his arsenal.

Marvin Bagley is now the consensus #1 American prospect. Remember, I was not a fan early. Well, watch him play ... and you'll see why I changed my mind. He's an alien playing amongst boys.

As for Doncic, he might be great. However, NBA teams almost always takes the longer / athletic player who's proved themselves in college over the smaller / cerebral international player. 6'11" athletic freaks with high basketball IQ don't grow on trees. 6'7" cerebral high basketball IQ / good shooting players are not as rare. That's reality.

I have no problem with Doncic ... but how are you going to play Markkanen and Doncic on the wings together? Doncic will not be guarding PGs in the NBA. He will be guarding 3s. That puts Markkanen on an athletic wing, which is not optimal. It only works if Markkanen gets strong enough to play the stretch 5 AND the Bulls draft another athletic wing to compensate.

Defensively, Bagley can play the 3,4, and 5. Markkanen can stretch the floor for Bagley. It will work on both sides of the floor.

 

[piteus]

Ayton is playing more like a modern day C. Trying to help out on the 3 pt line. Bagley will end up at the 4 and Plays more near to the paint most of the time. Not sure if that is the best fit for Lauri.

Doncic should be the target anyways.

The modern day center is rim protector / dunker. That's pretty much it. DeMarcus Cousins / Anthony Davis is the next incarnation of the center. Bagley compares to them.

Watch Bagley. K lets him initiate the offense on top of the key because of his passing and high basketball IQ. K lets him dribble up the floor. And while Bagley can't shoot YET, he drives to the basket from the wing. IF Bagley develops a jumper, he'll be unstoppable. Embiid, Cousins, Towns, and Davis would be the only comparables. Yeah ... I want the Bulls to have one of those toys.

 

[LDF]

The modern day center is rim protector / dunker. That's pretty much it. DeMarcus Cousins / Anthony Davis is the next incarnation of the center. Bagley compares to them.

Watch Bagley. K lets him initiate the offense on top of the key because of his passing and high basketball IQ. K lets him dribble up the floor. And while Bagley can't shoot YET, he drives to the basket from the wing. IF Bagley develops a jumper, he'll be unstoppable. Embiid, Cousins, Towns, and Davis would be the only comparables. Yeah ... I want the Bulls to have one of those toys.

really, i thought it would be the other way. Ayton being the prototype center of old. what i read was his game away from the basket is still developing, while bagley can take it to the 3 point arc.

 

[piteus]

really, i thought it would be the other way. Ayton being the prototype center of old. what i read was his game away from the basket is still developing, while bagley can take it to the 3 point arc.

Don't get me wrong, Ayton is extremely talented. Physically imposing dude. He has tons of upside. I've observed, as many others, Bagley is an athletic freak. Defenders are just starting to jump when Bagley's already dunked the ball. If nothing else, this guy is going to average 12+ rebounds per game and 10 points per game on just put backs. If he develops the other parts of his game, you can't stop him. BTW, Bagley is also a really good passer. So Markkanen would get the ball for open 3s. Bagley is not a black hole. He shares the ball.

Bagley has also proved he can share the paint with another skilled big in Carter. Now imagine Markkanen giving him more space in the paint. They can play off each other. I hope the Bulls get this kid. I won't complain if the Bulls get Doncic or Porter ... but Bagley is a unique talent. An unstoppable talent if he learns how to shoot.

 

[LDF]

Don't get me wrong, Ayton is extremely talented. Physically imposing dude. He has tons of upside. I've observed, as many others, Bagley is an athletic freak. Defenders are just starting to jump when Bagley's already dunked the ball. If nothing else, this guy is going to average 12+ rebounds per game and 10 points per game on just put backs. If he develops the other parts of his game, you can't stop him. BTW, Bagley is also a really good passer. So Markkanen would get the ball for open 3s. Bagley is not a black hole. He shares the ball.

Bagley has also proved he can share the paint with another skilled big in Carter. Now imagine Markkanen giving him more space in the paint. They can play off each other. I hope the Bulls get this kid. I won't complain if the Bulls get Doncic or Porter ... but Bagley is a unique talent. An unstoppable talent if he learns how to shoot.

as of right now, i really don't know which will be the best fit for the bulls. so for me, i will pick Bagley, bpa and hope that Markkanen will gel .

Bagley
Mark
Dunn
Valetine.

that is a recipe of a nice team to start watching the bulls again.

 

[piteus]

as of right now, i really don't know which will be the best fit for the bulls. so for me, i will pick Bagley, bpa and hope that Markkanen will gel .

Bagley
Mark
Dunn
Valetine.

that is a recipe of a nice team to start watching the bulls again.

Bagley is a good fit ... but more importantly, his upside is MASSIVE. For a Bulls team devoid of talent, you take the best talent possible. Doncic, Porter, Ayton, Bamba, Sexton, etc. all have good upside. However, Bagley appears to be a different talent. He's an athletic freak with high basketball IQ. His shot is his only weakness and it appears to be improving. He has a decent stroke. He'll also need to develop more of a right hand. At 6'11", he's already a great rebounder, has good handles, and a tremendous passer.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The last thing the Bulls should do is worry about fit. Pick the best player period. I haven't watched hardly any college this year, so I have no idea who that is, but the Bulls can't draft based on fit.

 

[piteus]

The last thing the Bulls should do is worry about fit. Pick the best player period. I haven't watched hardly any college this year, so I have no idea who that is, but the Bulls can't draft based on fit.

Bagley is a 6'11" Amare Stoudemire with higher basketball IQ. He's already a better passer and defender than Stoudemire ever was (obviously not offensively as polished). Now imagine if Amare Stoudemire developed a consistent jump shot. That's Bagley's upside ... not that he'll get there, but the potential is there.

 

[LDF]

Bagley is a good fit ... but more importantly, his upside is MASSIVE. For a Bulls team devoid of talent, you take the best talent possible. Doncic, Porter, Ayton, Bamba, Sexton, etc. all have good upside. However, Bagley appears to be a different talent. He's an athletic freak with high basketball IQ. His shot is his only weakness and it appears to be improving. He has a decent stroke. He'll also need to develop more of a right hand. At 6'11", he's already a great rebounder, has good handles, and a tremendous passer.

everything you say is true, that is why i am torn. at this time, i think Bagley is ahead of Ayton, but they both have 2 different games.

if the bulls were forced to pick Ayton, i for 1 would not be disappointed and will equally have a great career.

 

[LDF]

The last thing the Bulls should do is worry about fit. Pick the best player period. I haven't watched hardly any college this year, so I have no idea who that is, but the Bulls can't draft based on fit.

the problem for me and my uneducated in opinion in basketball. Ayton is also really enticing. i however think that Bagley is equally enticing. now the bulls have Markkanen and who will compliment him. is it Ayton or Bagley.

while Bagley is a raw Stoudemire . Ayton imho is a cross of a raw, young Karl Malone/Hakeem Olajuwon. that is how close i see them, the 2 prospects. more along the line of Hakeem.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

the problem for me and my uneducated in opinion in basketball. Ayton is also really enticing. i however think that Bagley is equally enticing. now the bulls have Markkanen and who will compliment him. is it Ayton or Bagley.

while Bagley is a raw Stoudemire . Ayton imho is a cross of a raw, young Karl Malone/Hakeem Olajuwon. that is how close i see them, the 2 prospects. more along the line of Hakeem.

I can't speak to the pros and cons of any of those players as I haven't seen them play. My only point is that who is on the Bulls current roster should have nothing to do with who they select. The Bulls have holes everywhere and just need to get the most talented player they can. Don't worry about the "fit. At best, only a few of the guys on this team will be there when the team is ready to compete again, so it's silly to try to build around question marks, IMO.

 

[piteus]

the problem for me and my uneducated in opinion in basketball. Ayton is also really enticing. i however think that Bagley is equally enticing. now the bulls have Markkanen and who will compliment him. is it Ayton or Bagley.

while Bagley is a raw Stoudemire . Ayton imho is a cross of a raw, young Karl Malone/Hakeem Olajuwon. that is how close i see them, the 2 prospects. more along the line of Hakeem.

It's just a matter of opinion. However, in basketball, a lot of the top recruits play against each other in high school through AAU. Obviously, recruits develop at different stages ... but usually when almost every recruiting analysts call Marvin Bagley the top HS recruit for either the 2018 or 2019 class, that means something. Also note Bagley is almost a full year younger than Ayton. Ayton's biggest advantage is that he is 2 inches taller. There aren't a lot of athletic 7'1" people in this world. That said, are those two inches worth more than Bagley's freak abilities?

 

[LDF]

I can't speak to the pros and cons of any of those players as I haven't seen them play. My only point is that who is on the Bulls current roster should have nothing to do with who they select. The Bulls have wholes everywhere and just need to get the most talented player they can. Don't worry about the "fit. At best, only a few of the guys on this team will be there when the team is ready to compete again, so it's silly to try to build around question marks, IMO.

well i can make a post to further explain and well i will respectfully not respond.

 

[LDF]

It's just a matter of opinion. However, in basketball, a lot of the top recruits play against each other in high school through AAU. Obviously, recruits develop at different stages ... but usually when almost every recruiting analysts call Marvin Bagley the top HS recruit for either the 2018 or 2019 class, that means something. Also note Bagley is almost a full year younger than Ayton. Ayton's biggest advantage is that he is 2 inches taller. There aren't a lot of athletic 7'1" people in this world. That said, are those two inches worth more than Bagley's freak abilities?

only if Ayton develop as hope. but as i said, i am all for Bagley, but i am still wondering if he is still the best for the bulls. can he really continue his development as hope as well.

this is a perfect case of wishing the bulls had the first 2 picks in next yr draft.

 

[LDF]

only if Ayton develop as hope. but as i said, i am all for Bagley, but i am still wondering if he is still the best for the bulls. can he really continue his development as hope as well.

this is a perfect case of wishing the bulls had the first 2 picks in next yr draft.

btw when i saw this picture i started to rethink my org opinion on the draft.

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.tow...8bc0a/59eadb5e7472d.image.jpg?resize=1200,744

 

[piteus]

btw when i saw this picture i started to rethink my org opinion on the draft.

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/ae/cae76cfa-4886-5c56-8038-d3b20298bc0a/59eadb5e7472d.image.jpg?resize=1200,744

One big issue with Ayton is his motor. He doesn't always try that hard. It's the only reason his defense is mocked by some college basketball analysts this year. He might grow out of that or it can continue. Who knows? Investing millions on 18-20 year olds is always a huge gamble.

 

[LDF]

One big issue with Ayton is his motor. He doesn't always try that hard. It's the only reason his defense is mocked by some college basketball analysts this year. He might grow out of that or it can continue. Who knows? Investing millions on 18-20 year olds is always a huge gamble.

excellent point.

 

[Rooh]

Here is the problem with Ayton, he doesn't have much of an I.Q on defense and his motor isn't to great. He plays the C position and that is the most vital position on defense.

Ayton is highly overrated offensively you see that he has tons of muscle and you would think he bangs down low and destroys defenders with his strength, but he's the complete opposite he shys away from contact most of the time. He isn't even in my Top 6 I have no interest in him being paired with Lauri

Doncic or Bagley should be the pick for the Bulls unless MPJ comes back and impresses. Doncic is doing something never done before in the 2nd best league in the world and Bagley is putting up some of the most dominant freshman numbers I've seen so far on par with KD and Simmons.

@piteus If Doncic is guarding a 3 why would Markkanen be on an athletic wing? Markkanen will be guarding 4s while Lavine and PG/Dunn will guard up top. Only thing that concerns me thus far with Bagley is his defense at the C position, he is NOT a long player and isn't as good of a rim protector as some are claiming, he shows lots of effort on that end and can move well which gives him potential to be a plus defender in the future.

With all that being said draft started today and I'm still picking Doncic #1, his skill level is unbelievably high for an 18 year old and even fit wise Bulls will benefit from a playmaker to help feed Markkanen and others since the guards we have now have no idea what to do with the ball.

Doncic
Bagley
MPJ
Bamba
T. Young
Sexton
Jackson Jr
Ayton