542365
2018-19 Cup Champs!
- Mar 22, 2012
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OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2
- Thread starter simon IC
- Start date
TheDizee
Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
- Apr 5, 2014
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Bobby Orrtuzzo
Ya know
Combo of shitty team and high parking/concession prices, this isn’t surprising.
HOPEFULLY it’s an eye opening experience for the Dewitts, but we’ll see I guess. Not very optimistic.
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
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with inflation where it has been the last few years, I would be surprised if attendance doesn't wind up down everywhere, especially for baseball which has so many more games
Cardinals attendance is down, but it's still 6th in the league, so they're not exactly hurting too much there.
Yet.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
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A ton of tickets have been sold, they're in the bank so attendance will probably look good on paper for a while. The question is how walk-up sales go and how physical attendance looks, especially if this team starts trending more toward 71-91 (the current pace) and less toward even 85 wins (which right now won't get us into the playoffs, and probably still won't by the end of the season).
Bobby Orrtuzzo
Ya know
I saw an article ticket that said resale tickets are way down too.
I really think this gets to the core of it, and why people are staying away. For a number of years the front office was truly ahead of the game and one of the smarter ones out there. The problem is, everyone else caught up and the Cardinals seemingly haven’t realized it or adjusted in a meaningful way. They hype prospects up but can’t develop them like they once did. They waste money FA and are addicted to the nostalgia plays. They had a wonderful run but you can only trade on that for so long. I also think - not entirely unfairly - that people catch a whiff of arrogance and smugness from Mo, Dewitt and the lot, and that turns a lot of people off, particularly in a city like STL.
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I’d also add that according to govt stats, credit card debt is at a record high and 8 out of 10 people are living paycheck to paycheck. Maybe people aren’t willing to pay hundreds of dollars to see the Cards any more.
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
- Jun 6, 2011
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Bit ironic to get smoked by Flaherty only to swipe the win off of Miller.
Memento
Future Authoress.
I'm so frustrated and done with this team's mismanagement.
Arenado's not going to stay for this shitshow and will likely ask for a trade. Goldschmidt's likely - and should be - gone after this year. The starting pitching, Gray aside, is awful. The bullpen is overworked, not used, and a lot of them are hurt. The offense is as offensive as I've seen in my almost-thirty-three years watching this team. Five home runs. From Contreras. Who leads the team. Honestly, if the NL wasn't forced to send a player from every team to the All-Star game, I don't even think we'd have any players there.
Even the younger players (Walker, Scott, Winn, Gorman, Liberatore, Thompson, Herrera) have struggled because - quite simply - we either don't play them (Having Fermin and the corpse of Brandon Crawford play over Winn is in-f***ing-excusable. Throwing in Jose Fermin as a replacement bat for Gorman in the Tigers game when we were down was un-f***ing-forgivable.) or we don't know how to coach them (Walker, Liberatore, Thompson) or they're simply not ready (Scott, Saggese, our younger pitchers). Edman might change things, but it's going to be far too late, given that he's still struggling hitting from the right side off the tee. Don't know why the f*** we signed Carpenter.
I say we blow it up, deal Arenado for elite young pitching (for example, the Dodgers might pay a lot for a third baseman in Arenado, and he's expressed interest there before. I'd go for Nick Frasso and another younger pitcher on the Dodgers' roster - thinking Emmet Sheehan, even though he has an injury.), Goldschmidt for an elite young prospect (for example, see if Seattle's willing to deal Felnin Celestin?), deal Helsley for a good prospect (I love Helsley, it's not his fault our other pitching sucks, but he's a free agent and not going to stay with us.), see if anyone's interested in Edman (should get a solid young player or two for him). Lynn, Gibson, Mikolas, especially Matz, all of them can get the f*** off this team; I don't care if you have to give Matz away at this point. Mikolas, Gibson, and Lynn can go for lottery tickets. Contreras is being productive, but we signed him to a four-year deal when we had Herrera waiting in the wings, and his value is likely never going to be higher than it is. I'd trade him.
It's been horrific mismanagement from the top down, signing players with no potential (Fermin, Siani) or players in their mid to late thirties (the entire starting pitching staff, albeit with Gray proving me wrong, Carpenter, Crawford). Not having coaches who can coach up the younger players you have in the majors is also horrific mismanagement. So, for the love of f***ing fate, fire Marmol, Mozeliak, Girsch, the coaching staff, anyone and everyone you feel is responsible for this shitshow of management, coaching, and players. Flores can stay because he can actually draft well with what he's given.
I just...I don't know what to do with this team. They should not be this horrifically bad with all of the talent they've "supposedly" accumulated over the years.
Arenado's not going to stay for this shitshow and will likely ask for a trade. Goldschmidt's likely - and should be - gone after this year. The starting pitching, Gray aside, is awful. The bullpen is overworked, not used, and a lot of them are hurt. The offense is as offensive as I've seen in my almost-thirty-three years watching this team. Five home runs. From Contreras. Who leads the team. Honestly, if the NL wasn't forced to send a player from every team to the All-Star game, I don't even think we'd have any players there.
Even the younger players (Walker, Scott, Winn, Gorman, Liberatore, Thompson, Herrera) have struggled because - quite simply - we either don't play them (Having Fermin and the corpse of Brandon Crawford play over Winn is in-f***ing-excusable. Throwing in Jose Fermin as a replacement bat for Gorman in the Tigers game when we were down was un-f***ing-forgivable.) or we don't know how to coach them (Walker, Liberatore, Thompson) or they're simply not ready (Scott, Saggese, our younger pitchers). Edman might change things, but it's going to be far too late, given that he's still struggling hitting from the right side off the tee. Don't know why the f*** we signed Carpenter.
I say we blow it up, deal Arenado for elite young pitching (for example, the Dodgers might pay a lot for a third baseman in Arenado, and he's expressed interest there before. I'd go for Nick Frasso and another younger pitcher on the Dodgers' roster - thinking Emmet Sheehan, even though he has an injury.), Goldschmidt for an elite young prospect (for example, see if Seattle's willing to deal Felnin Celestin?), deal Helsley for a good prospect (I love Helsley, it's not his fault our other pitching sucks, but he's a free agent and not going to stay with us.), see if anyone's interested in Edman (should get a solid young player or two for him). Lynn, Gibson, Mikolas, especially Matz, all of them can get the f*** off this team; I don't care if you have to give Matz away at this point. Mikolas, Gibson, and Lynn can go for lottery tickets. Contreras is being productive, but we signed him to a four-year deal when we had Herrera waiting in the wings, and his value is likely never going to be higher than it is. I'd trade him.
It's been horrific mismanagement from the top down, signing players with no potential (Fermin, Siani) or players in their mid to late thirties (the entire starting pitching staff, albeit with Gray proving me wrong, Carpenter, Crawford). Not having coaches who can coach up the younger players you have in the majors is also horrific mismanagement. So, for the love of f***ing fate, fire Marmol, Mozeliak, Girsch, the coaching staff, anyone and everyone you feel is responsible for this shitshow of management, coaching, and players. Flores can stay because he can actually draft well with what he's given.
I just...I don't know what to do with this team. They should not be this horrifically bad with all of the talent they've "supposedly" accumulated over the years.
TheDizee
Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
- Apr 5, 2014
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TheDizee
Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
- Apr 5, 2014
- 20,009
- 12,764
And just think how the casual fan will handle this turd team.
25k crowds, low 30s on weekends will be the norm. STL loves baseball too much to totally boycott this shitfest but that hopefully will be enough of a wakeup call to fire Bowtie boy and Marmol along with any other Yes men.
BadgersandBlues
Registered User
- Jun 6, 2011
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There's a lot to break down there. First off, who gives a f*** about Arenado. The dude has one HR in his last 100 games. He's getting paid 35 million dollars, f*** him and the horse he rode in on. He was a 130ish OPS+ hitter in Colorado, since moving to STL he's been 119, 151, 109, and this year he's at 96. I hope he asks for a trade so someone else can pay him his bloated ass salary in his declining twilight years. We shoulda traded Goldy last deadline, I was pretty adamant about that. Sucks but Mo is a tool.
Second, your take on the pitching is pretty out of bed with what is actually happening on the field. Mikolas and Matz are trash, and Thompsen needs better command, hence why he's back in Springfield. Gray/Lynn/Gibson have all been really good, and the back end of our bullpen has been lights out. Kittridge, Romero, Liberatore, Fernandez, and Helsey have been incredible, and are a huge reason why we aren't completely out of the running by May 1st. Pallante and Thompson in his relief appearences have been terrible, and Gally has had some bad luck imo - I've seen him give up 3-4 home runs on well placed pitches that dudes just barrel. Dunno if it's just him getting older and losing a little zip or what. We have yet to see what Kenyon Martin can do, but if anything, this team's bullpen is currently it's biggest strength.
I am as frustrated with you about the offense as anyone. Why Wynn isn't leading off is beyond me. Why Walker decided to show off his off-season GAINS by trying to hit every ball to the moon is beyond me. Why Noot and Gorman can't seen to find the strikezone is beyond me.
All in all though, why are you surprised? This team was always supposed to hover around 500, and potentially sneak in as a second wild card. Right now, that's about where we are.
Memento
Future Authoress.
I'm surprised because I expected our younger players to take a step forward, not back and because the offense was expected to bounce back, not be one of the single-worst in the league. Not just NL; the f***ing league. Walker still hits the ball on the ground, only now he's pulling everything like Arenado and grounding out into easy double-plays. Scott wasn't ready, even after a scorching spring, and we have no answers at center field other than him. Nootbaar and Donovan are way overrated for what they provide. I would've been perfectly fine with dealing Nootbaar the year we got Contreras for a catcher (Toronto was interested in giving us Gabriel Moreno for him.) I would've been fine with dealing Donovan for Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo from Seattle, especially since Saggese and Edman provide the same thing. Gorman and Winn have done their level best, but I am pissed that we keep trotting out Fermin and Crawford over them.
But I still expected - while I wanted to deal Goldschmidt last year like you - Arenado to bounce back or Goldschmidt not to look like one of the worst first basemen in the league. I guess that's why I never should expect anything.
Gibson, at the moment, still gives up about a home run a game, if not more, and hasn't really impressed until the Detroit game (and he still gave up a huge home run). He's league average exactly in WAR, and it's only going to get worse. Lynn's expected peripherals show that his stats are going to regress; he's gotten very lucky with expected batting average.
Our bullpen has been solid. We've still ridden Helsley, Gallegos, and Liberatore. Marmol won't send out Fernandez, Romero, or Kittredge, even though they should be solid options. O'Brien looked fantastic, but he has a forearm strain. Same with Middleton, who hasn't been available the whole year thus far. Rom's been shut down for the season, and our other left-handed options aside from John King (who is awful, and honestly, we should give up on him). I have high hopes for Nick Robertson, Victor Santos, and I'd love to bring up Andre Granillo, just to see what he could do as a heavy right-handed pitcher. I will agree that our bullpen is good, but overworked and having injured pieces.
Pallante would be better off stretched in a starting role, along with Thompson. I'm serious. Anything's better than trotting out the pitchers we have (Gray aside, he's proven me dead wrong thus far.), and while Sem Robberse, Adam Kloffenstein, Gordon Graceffo, and Michael McGreevy are options, I don't think any of them are fully ready yet.
Overall, it's been a giant clusterf*** of a season, and I am pissed and out for blood, as is my right as a fan of a team I love that is struggling with overall ineptitude from the front office and coaching staff.
At least I have the Rams?
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