OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[Celtic Note]

I am not an expert on event space subsidies or incentivess. Most of my work was in rural communities, and I've since shifted to workforce development/talent attraction (I get bored easily and switch career tracks) So take this with a big grain of salt.

A lot of the studies I've read ignore or underplay the intangible benefits of these deals. Having a sporting team makes you a "real" city. That in turn attracts residents and businesses. The economic effect of that cannot be quantified easily.

Also like everything in business, it's a negotiation. There are winners and losers. The winners generally have the better representation , which billionaire sport team owners can more easily afford. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do any deal, just better deals.

The big difference between those studies and this situation is the stadium is already built. Which makes this worse. What real gain is there for the city?

The cardinals are an entrenched organization that will draw fans regardless of what they do. This also means there would be no incentive for them to move. The Cardinals are also making money hand over fist, so they really don’t have a good case IMO for needing assistance.

There is also a supposedly growing decline in younger people being interested in pro sports. So whether sports are an actual draw for migratory populations is probably on the decline. There is also significant migration to smaller sized cities that don’t boast robust pro sports collections.

Collectively this all suggests to me that any ask by DeWitt for these projects is not a great nor needed investment by the city.

 

[Xerloris]

The big difference between those studies and this situation is the stadium is already built. Which makes this worse. What real gain is there for the city?

The cardinals are an entrenched organization that will draw fans regardless of what they do. This also means there would be no incentive for them to move. The Cardinals are also making money hand over fist, so they really don’t have a good case IMO for needing assistance.

There is also a supposedly growing decline in younger people being interested in pro sports. So whether sports are an actual draw for migratory populations is probably on the decline. There is also significant migration to smaller sized cities that don’t boast robust pro sports collections.

Collectively this all suggests to me that any ask by DeWitt for these projects is not a great nor needed investment by the city.

Well with a updated stadium big events are more likely to choose your stadium for events. Think the Kiel center and the renovation. We got the all star game, they even let us host the cup finals again. Also yes I know it's not the Kiel anymore but f*** that stupid new name I can't remember.

 

[AVictoryDive]

The whole public funding thing is supposedly a load of BS

 

[Blueston]

I am not an expert on event space subsidies or incentivess. Most of my work was in rural communities, and I've since shifted to workforce development/talent attraction (I get bored easily and switch career tracks) So take this with a big grain of salt.

A lot of the studies I've read ignore or underplay the intangible benefits of these deals. Having a sporting team makes you a "real" city. That in turn attracts residents and businesses. The economic effect of that cannot be quantified easily.

Also like everything in business, it's a negotiation. There are winners and losers. The winners generally have the better representation , which billionaire sport team owners can more easily afford. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do any deal, just better deals.

these intangible benefits are how leagues and teams keep extorting money out of cities. it preys on the insecurity of the populace and the cynical suspicion that elected leaders are worried about bing blamed for team leaving town.

 

[Mike Liut]

Sonny Gray and 4 turds, who would have guessed we’d suck? Everybody but Stevie Wonder saw this coming.

 

[TheDizee]

Few more weeks of this and Busch will be at under 30k during the weekdays

 

[Celtic Note]

Sonny Gray and 4 turds, who would have guessed we’d suck? Everybody but Stevie Wonder saw this coming.

Even Stevie saw.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Few more weeks of this and Busch will be at under 30k during the weekdays

The crazy thing is, there are teams that would kill for 30k

 

[TheDizee]

looks like a 5year contract extension is incoming for Marmol!

 

[Eldon Reid]

Another day, another 0 runs.............

 

[Spear]

Another day, another 0 runs.............

Whatever type of instruction / game planning these guys are getting..... it is NOT working. All but Winn and Contreras seem completely lost.

 

[Mike Liut]

The Cardinals are showing the Blues how a real tank is done

 

[bleedblue1223]

Not trading Goldschmidt at the deadline last season was such a missed opportunity. And obviously still way too early on Walker, but if he busts, we are in trouble.

 

[Spear]

Not trading Goldschmidt at the deadline last season was such a missed opportunity. And obviously still way too early on Walker, but if he busts, we are in trouble.

re: Goldy, I agree major missed opportunity. At least they haven't extended him, yet.

I wonder if the Cardinals would hire Pujols to fix Walker's swing / approach. His regression is alarming.

 

[TheDizee]

marmol deserves this as does bowtie boy. shame the fans will pay for the sins of these clowns.

 

[The Note]

The really troubling thing is they’re doing this while getting some pretty good pitching (for the most part). Part of the risk of making a 36 and 33 year old the lynchpins of your offense is that the cliff might come sooner than you want it too.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Everything fell apart as soon as the old Hitting and Pitching coaches left. The entire coaching staff needs to be reworked.

 

[BrokenFace]

Over the last half dozen years or more, what can we say this front office is good at? They aren't a top 10 team in drafting/developing or trading, and they don't spend the payroll they have effectively. The Goldy and Arenada trades were huge wins in terms of what we got vs what we gave up, but we've been coasting off those trades rather than capitalizing off of them for so long that we're now clearly seeing how little additional value has been brought into the organization in years.

 

[TheDizee]

Everything fell apart as soon as the old Hitting and Pitching coaches left. The entire coaching staff needs to be reworked.

nah we need to extend marmol for 5 more years. hes a good yes man for bowtie boy.

 

[PJJJP]

Well the pitching has been fine. But the hitting is horrible. Don't know what the hitting coach is doing but they need to turn it around.

 

[TheDizee]

Bernie On The Cardinals: There's No Excuse For Milwaukee Being Better Than St. Louis. Payroll Size Doesn't Matter. - Scoops Sports Network

I posted this on ‘X’ Sunday: since the start of the 2017 season, the Cardinals have outspent the Milwaukee Brewers $1.2 billion to $770 million (approximately) on 26-man payroll. Winning percentage: Milwaukee .557 St. Louis .527 That tells us a lot about the state of the Cardinals’ franchise...

www.scoopswithdannymac.com

 

[542365]

Gorman and Goldy both homering is huge. Hopefully this gets the team going. Seemed dead in the water most of the night but found a way to win.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's absolutely insane that we spend the 3rd most on starting pitching. The figure in the article is misleading because it's using the creative accounting on Ohtani, instead of his contractural value. And it really sums up the issue for the organization, for too long we suck at developing talent. We've had too many top prospects flop at the majors or pitchers that just never make it, forcing us to pay crazy money to crappy vets.

 

[joe galiba]

Matz is Kapanen
seems like good guy, has lots of talent, does some really good things, but makes “that” mistake that costs the team

 

[TheDizee]

Matz is Kapanen
seems like good guy, has lots of talent, does some really good things, but makes “that” mistake that costs the team

hes someone Mo should build around