OPPF2021 Assassinations Thread

[tinyzombies]

AKA We don't need to stinking defense!

Having Tonelli/Gare out there trying to stop some of the best players ever wasn't going to impress anyone either, even if Gerrard/Horton was helping. Might as well pull out the guns.

I mixed my middle six as well, if that matters. Moved Delvecchio to top line so I can use that as power vs power. It's stronger defensively now.

Before:
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

After:
Alex Delvecchio* --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Valeri Kharlamov --- Evgeni Malkin -- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
(out: John Tonelli) Ilya Kovalchuk --- Frank Fredrickson --- (out: Danny Gare) Connor McDavid

Stevens-Orr
Gerrard-Horton
Josi-Burns

Roy
Holtby

Al Arbour

 

[VanIslander]

It's time to vote!

 

[The Macho King]

Just a head's up - my updated lineup is in the rosters thread, not here.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Just a head's up - my updated lineup is in the rosters thread, not here.

Yes. King has updated his roster to advantage... and @tinyzombies has updated his roster to comprehensibility- and people taking the matter seriously should look in on both.

I am delaying my vote until at least this afternoon- as the deliberation deserves sobriety, and an opportunity to free my brain of post uisce beatha cobwebs.

Do I actually HAVE to oversee morning Overtime today?! F***...

 

[tinyzombies]

Just a heads up, I've put all my players on steroids as they would do today. I fully expect that to be factored into any future lineup assassination.

So yes, you are facing a roided up Bobby Orr.

I've also made Patrick Roy take yoga, so please add an inch to his height.

 

[VanIslander]

Just a heads up, I've put all my players on steroids ...

Ivermectin, too? Horses with heartworm await your reply.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Just a heads up, I've put all my players on steroids as they would do today. I fully expect that to be factored into any future lineup assassination.

So yes, you are facing a roided up Bobby Orr.

I've also made Patrick Roy take yoga, so please add an inch to his height.

Funny you should bring that up. After Verdun's add/drops, I looked at the RWs and thought that their doping protocol would consist- not of steroids- but instead, EPO.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

These four could not make the Laval starting line up: Boucher, Dejardins, Hatcher, Blake.

A gulf.

Yes, when you neglect forwards, you can have a really good 6 unit defense

But I prefer Blake and Boucher to Conacher and Coulter... by a little.

I probably should have drafted either Keith or Karlsson when I had the chance (instead of Bucyk), but I don't know, maybe I was thrown off by the fact that 11 Bruins were going to be drafted. I definitely didn't expect ChiTown (the only other one who could draft Keith) to pick a bottom pairing guy so early.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Only one Team who's posted a Roster remains un-reviewed...

Leadership- at this level, the difference between the 4th most-esteemed Coach & the 6th most-esteemed Coach doesn't count for anything. What's likely the bigger concern is fit-to-team... and Tommy Ivan is that. I consider Lemieux an under-rated Captain, and I've always liked Lidstrom as a lead-by-example man. Guess you haven't made up your mind who to give the 2nd 'A' to- glad it's your decision and not mine... I guess I'd plump for "Chief" [Bucyk] if it were my call. At this level of the troposphere, the Leadership is pretty ordinary.

First Line: T. Phillips-M. Lemieux-Lafleur Tommy Phillips is one of these HoFers that I monitor on the periphery of my drafting radar- only to wind up watching someone else take him. He's fine value, clearly. Lemieux gets the 'place' position among #1 Centers, by acclamation... and Lafleur is on-the-podium as a RW. They fit great, naturally... and if Regina's First Line isn't the best in the league, this one is.

Second Line: Bucyk-P. Forsberg-Bossy In normal worlds, Bossy would be the best 2nd line RW going. This is not a normal world, though- the Wanderers have launched a Rocket in this role. How can you not love Bossy-Forsberg together? [Although Forsberg's an injury-risk.] The question-mark here belongs to Bucyk, who was a 3rd-liner in the last draft... and San Jose paid a steep price to pick him where they did. Could have waited on him, I think. The only other players who hadn't used their Boston card by this time were tabs & Beast. I don't believe tabs was EVER taking him... and I don't think Beast would have, either. In spite of Bucyk being a below average (reverse podium?) LW at this level, it's a functional Second Line if Forsberg stays healthy.

Third Line: D. Bentley-Keon-G. Anderson Doug Bentley is the best 3rd Line LW going. Mated to a couple of middle-of-the-packers at this level, it's a quality (if a little under-sized) 3rd Line.

Fourth Line: K. Tkachuk-Backstrom-J. Ward The first two there for what they bring to Special Teams- and that's pretty cool. Jimmy Ward was a sentimental pick of mine in last year's draft... and I think there's a bit more that can yet be told about his story. I have no problem placing him in the upper half of the pack at this tier.

First Pairing: Lidstrom-B. Park Count me among the people who might bore you by prattling on about how I think Lidstrom is under-rated. Probably surprised a few people by using the Detroit Card right there at the front of the 3rd round... but I think San Jose got fair goods. Of course, no-one (who's been paying attention) was surprised by the Brad Park selection. Pairing as solid AF, sound AF, and will have to be that way all season long, keeping each other's spirits up, as I'm sure that Tommy Ivan will be tempted to play them for half the game, night-after-night, because after them comes...

Second Pairing: G. Boucher-E. Desjardins Oh, dear. Some people got 3rd pairings better than this 2nd pairing. This year's 2nd pairing Lantern Rouge.

Third pairing: D. Hatcher-R. Blake has close-to-luxury casting with Blake here. Big on physicality, it's a sound 3rd pairing... one I would expect to receive about as many minutes as your second one.

Goaltending: Tretiak C. Joseph- I have NO problem considering Tretiak an upper-half Goaltender in this league. What difference that makes remains a little in dispute- but San Jose gets quality starts, no doubt.

Wrapping up with the stunning Power Play- and not quite as stunning Penalty Kill, it bears stating that San Jose has several Extraordinary Gentlemen on their team- Lafleur (multiple Byng Finalist), Lidstrom (also multiple Byng Finalist), Bossy (actual multiple Byng winner) and Dave Keon (also a two-time Byng winner). Add to this Lemieux's considerable capacity for inducing restraining fouls, and you have a team that's going to the man-advantage more than they're killing one off. Hard to say how much this should count for- but it should count for something.

​

Thanks for the review, I agree with most of it.

The benefit to drafting Bucyk before a #3 D at least is that I have the best PP in the draft. Is it worth not having a real #3 dman? I don't know. But you can bet I'm going to be pumping my PP's tires in the playoffs.

At least all my dmen are on their proper sides. Did I put too much emphasis on that? It definitely threw me off that in a draft this size, it was really hard to find a good second pairing RD. Blake is obviously better than Desjardins - maybe I should have him next to Boucher; I kind of like this fit more. Obviously my top pairing will play as many minutes as they can handle.

 

[Claude The Fraud]

Sorry for the delay, guys. Got busy at works and kids were sick.

Feel free to comment my rooster. Thanks!

View attachment 467700

Coach: Dick Irvin
Captain: Jean Béliveau
Assistant: Gordie Howe
Assistant: Rod Langway

#16 Cy Denneny - #4 Jean Béliveau - #9 Gordie Howe
#18 Busher Jackson - Cyclone Taylor - #12 Bryan Hextall Sr
#7 Bill Barber - #17 Rod Brind'Amour - #26 Blake Wheeler
#11 Zach Parise - #27 Mike Peca - #88 Owen Nolan

#5 Rod Langway - #2 Eddie Shore
#77 Viktor Hedman - #6 Valeri Vasilyev
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #56 Sergei Zubov

#1 Charlie Gardiner
#31 Grant Fuhr

Power Play
#16 Cy Denneny - #4 Jean Béliveau - #9 Gordie Howe
#77 Viktor Hedman - #2 Eddie Shore

#18 Busher Jackson - Cyclone Taylor - #12 Bryan Hextall Sr
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #56 Sergei Zubov

Penalty Kill
#27 Mike Peca - #7 Bill Barber
#5 Rod Langway - #6 Valeri Vasilyev

#17 Rod Brind'Amour - #9 Gordie Howe
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #2 Eddie Shore​

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Sorry for the delay, guys. Got busy at works and kids were sick.

Feel free to comment my rooster. Thanks!

View attachment 467700

Coach: Dick Irvin
Captain: Jean Béliveau
Assistant: Gordie Howe
Assistant: Rod Langway

#16 Cy Denneny - #4 Jean Béliveau - #9 Gordie Howe
#18 Busher Jackson - Cyclone Taylor - #12 Bryan Hextall Sr
#7 Bill Barber - #17 Rod Brind'Amour - #26 Blake Wheeler
#11 Zach Parise - #27 Mike Peca - #88 Owen Nolan

#5 Rod Langway - #2 Eddie Shore
#77 Viktor Hedman - #6 Valeri Vasilyev
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #56 Sergei Zubov

#1 Charlie Gardiner
#31 Grant Fuhr

Power Play
#16 Cy Denneny - #4 Jean Béliveau - #9 Gordie Howe
#77 Viktor Hedman - #2 Eddie Shore

#18 Busher Jackson - Cyclone Taylor - #12 Bryan Hextall Sr
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #56 Sergei Zubov

Penalty Kill
#17 Rod Brind'Amour - #11 Zach Parise
#5 Rod Langway - #6 Valero Vasilyev

#27 Mike Peca - #12 Bryan Hextall Sr.
#3 Frantisek Pospisil - #2 Eddie Shore​

Best top 6 in the draft, and it's not close either. Well balanced too. The rest of your team just needs to be acceptable for you to compete for the championship, but is it?

Obviously when you invest so much in your top 6, you won't have a star-studded bottom 6, but I do wish you had a more two-way RW to make the Barber-Brind'amour unit a real checking line.

Your PK could be better if you did this as your forwards:

Peca - Barber
Brind'amour - Howe
Taylor-Parise as the spares

Reasoning: Peca is such a black hole offensively at even strength that if you aren't using him on PK1, he's kind of a waste. Barber obviously wasn't as important as Bobby Clarke, but that Flyers PK was historically good, and it sure wasn't because of their defensemen. Gordie Howe is freaking Gordie Howe, give that man loads of ice time - he was also a SHG monster, relative to other O6 forwards. As far as I know, Hextall wasn't a PKer.

Your blueline is surprisingly good (and well balanced), considering how much you invested in your top 6 forwards, and Gardiner was exactly who I would have picked in goal if I had your start.

If your team falters alone the way, it would be your bottom 6 forwards who are likely to blame.

 

[Claude The Fraud]

Best top 6 in the draft, and it's not close either. Well balanced too. The rest of your team just needs to be acceptable for you to compete for the championship, but is it?

Obviously when you invest so much in your top 6, you won't have a star-studded bottom 6, but I do wish you had a more two-way RW to make the Barber-Brind'amour unit a real checking line.

Your PK could be better if you did this as your forwards:

Peca - Barber
Brind'amour - Howe
Taylor-Parise as the spares

Reasoning: Peca is such a black hole offensively at even strength that if you aren't using him on PK1, he's kind of a waste. Barber obviously wasn't as important as Bobby Clarke, but that Flyers PK was historically good, and it sure wasn't because of their defensemen. Gordie Howe is freaking Gordie Howe, give that man loads of ice time - he was also a SHG monster, relative to other O6 forwards. As far as I know, Hextall wasn't a PKer.

Your blueline is surprisingly good (and well balanced), considering how much you invested in your top 6 forwards, and Gardiner was exactly who I would have picked in goal if I had your start.

If your team falters alone the way, it would be your bottom 6 forwards who are likely to blame.

Thanks for your comments buddy!

And you’re right… My bottom six isn’t exactly what I would have wanted.

On the other hand, I’m pretty happy of my defense, even if Langway should play on a bottom pairing according to VI, and of my two top lines.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Langway should be your 6th dman, or at least third pairing, pk guy.

Lol what, if he's a top 40 D all time he's a top 4 guy

To "Beast's" point, Langway, clocking in at 35 overall among the composite HoH rankings, is consistent with a mid-level 4 here. To "Van's" point, that's STILL sufficient to make him quite easily the least-regarded top-pairing Defenceman in-the-league.

[Regina's] blueline is surprisingly good (and well balanced), considering how much you invested in your top 6 forwards...

Here follows Regina's top-4 D:
Eddie Shore #4 OA D: Upper half #1. [Degrades to mid-pack #1 when Playoffs begin.]
Rod Langway #35 OA D: Mid-pack #4.

Valeri Vasiliev #29 OA D: Low-end #3.
Victor Hedman #37 OA D: Mid-to-low-end #4.

The challenge here is- look through the other teams- and try to find three squads with an inferior Top 4 D set-up vs Regina. If we can't find three, then Regina's Top-4 defense should be regarded as "reverse-podium" (i.e.: Bottom-3)- and hence deserves citing as a comparative weakness, rather than "surprisingly good."

 

[VanIslander]

Postscript:

Laval Rocket
Build the best blueline, draft the best coach, but ensure he gets the two centers he has identified as the best defensively. Done.

coach Scotty Bowman
"I found out that if you are going to win games,
you had better be ready to adapt."
Luc Robitaille - Steve Yzerman (C) - Teemu Selanne
Brian Propp - Joe Malone - Patrick Kane
Jamie Benn - Ted Kennedy (A) - Joe Mullen
John Madden - Ron Francis - Jean Pronovost
Slava Fetisov (A) - Doug Harvey
Zdeno Chara - King Clancy
Lionel Conacher - Art Coulter
Jiri Holecek
(Tretiak equivalent)
Roberto Luongo​

PP1: Robitaille - Yzerman - Selanne - Chara - Harvey
PP2: Malone - Francis - Kane - Fetisov - Clancy
PK1: Kennedy - Francis - Conacher - Harvey
PK2: Yzerman - Madden - Fetisov - Chara
MVP: Harvey

Voted almost the worst, but I think I failed to communicate how awesome a backbone: centers depth and multiskills, defensemen elite excellence both ways, coach elite expertise, all dominate here in any match up. And two great passing right wingers to complement scoring by the centers and defensemen, and the left wingers as simply role players with different jobs to do but are locks to do them well.

I think I need to hire a better promotion team. I was stunned that my team ONLY received love via PM (by two GMs). It's not perfect, but in all my years here, i thought it obviously a great team.

Anyways,... the point of a fantasy draft is not the result but the process: i learned about players and enjoyed the journey. All's good.

See you in ATD 2022.

Have a good holidays!

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Postscript:

Voted almost the worst, but I think I failed to communicate how awesome a backbone: centers depth and multiskills, defensemen elite excellence both ways, coach elite expertise, all dominate here in any match up. And two great passing right wingers to complement scoring by the centers and defensemen, and the left wingers as simply role players with different jobs to do but are locks to do them well.

I think I need to hire a better promotion team. I was stunned that my team ONLY received love via PM (by two GMs). It's not perfect, but in all my years here, i thought it obviously a great team.

Anyways,... the point of a fantasy draft is not the result but the process: i learned about players and enjoyed the journey. All's good.

See you in ATD 2022.

Have a good holidays!

First and foremost, there were no Voting Results from the Laval District. Every league member Voted- presumably adhering to the time-honored tradition of voting their own (respective) teams first- except for Laval. This means that Laval was the only team that didn't receive a first-place vote in-the-standings. When you're 10% of the Electorate and you don't even show up to the polls... well- only the Election Judge could tell us what an impact that might have had. Wouldn't be surprised if it was worth two places in the Final Standings.

People who've seen how I value teams already know that I'd rather have elite defense and pedestrian offense than elite offense and pedestrian defense. That said, I thought a few GMs put together their best teams ever here.

If advocating for your squad, I don't know if banging the "pythagorean" drum would have helped. Seems that people have made up their minds on that one already. Maybe I would have tried to assert that that Fetisov & L. Conacher add enough offensive punch to the L-side as to present a challenge that has to be addressed, even with (relatively) less-impressive [in context] LWs.

Fetisov's offense can be underestimated by Soviet League counting stats- the way they seem to not count Secondary Assists some years, then count them, then not count them once more, then count them again...

Lionel Conacher's Offensive Peak sneaks up on you. In 1932-33, he was second to Eddie Shore in points among Defensemen. No shame in that, right? In 1933-34, he was second in D-men points behind Clancy- but Clancy was passing up-ice to the Kid Line. L. Conacher was passing up-ice to Thompson & Gottselig. Nice players, yeah- but neither of them are Busher Jackson level (and not even in the Charlie Conacher Time Zone).

 

[BenchBrawl]

Do you guys want to reactivate this thing and finish the draft? People were obviously too busy to get it going and no one took the lead. Maybe we should have a quick playoffs, 8 teams, standard bracket.

 

[VanIslander]

... Lionel Conacher's Offensive Peak sneaks up on you. In 1932-33, he was second to Eddie Shore in points among Defensemen. No shame in that, right? In 1933-34, he was second in D-men points behind Clancy- but Clancy was passing up-ice to the Kid Line. L. Conacher was passing up-ice to Thompson & Gottselig. Nice players, yeah- but neither of them are Busher Jackson level (and not even in the Charlie Conacher Time Zone).

Thanks for giving my 3rd pairing dman so much attention.

 

[rmartin65]

Do you guys want to reactivate this thing and finish the draft? People were obviously too busy to get it going and no one took the lead. Maybe we should have a quick playoffs, 8 teams, standard bracket.

With the way this one has petered out, I'm wondering about the fate of ATD 2022.

 

[BenchBrawl]

With the way this one has petered out, I'm wondering about the fate of ATD 2022.

No one wants to run it anymore. I wasn't the person running this one, whoever it was. The end of the ATD section? We'll see, someone needs to step up and that won't be me because my lifestyle is too unpredictable.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The draft itself was super entertaining, it just fizzled out because a few people disappeared for a key 10 or so days, myself included (mea culpa).

 

[VanIslander]

The minor drafts have before fizzled out in the playoffs.

The main ATD has always finished. It's the meat of the manner. This draft was just broccoli.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Do you guys want to reactivate this thing and finish the draft? People were obviously too busy to get it going and no one took the lead. Maybe we should have a quick playoffs, 8 teams, standard bracket.

That would be the "Ming-the-Merciless" option I discussed exactly a month ago:

The only other viable alternative is to go "Ming-the-Merciless" and chop the bottom two teams before setting the brackets. I don't know what the tallies were, but I'm thinking that the space between 8 & 9 (and perhaps even 10) in the balloting might be close enough that doing that would be a little harsh.

And you're probably gauging correctly that the 9th-10th place finishers likely won't have much appetite for a "play-in" Round.

This really has been a curious ATD-session. We had a rollicking, entertaining, enthusiastic draft-experience (it seemed)... and then the air went out of it. Speaking for myself, my enthusiasm took a hit with what I thought was one of the more WTF Regular Season results I've ever seen- and I'm speaking on behalf of several teams that I thought deserved a better fate than the one they received. Weird things happen with a narrow voting pool- it's kind of like when we have Playoff 3-stars, and losing team has First Star and Third Star.

However- to the original point, I guess quarters/semis/finals is the way to go, if this even has a chance of going anywhere at all.

[We NEED to pro-actively expand the Voter-Pool-- really, we do...]

 

[BenchBrawl]

That would be the "Ming-the-Merciless" option I discussed exactly a month ago:And you're probably gauging correctly that the 9th-10th place finishers likely won't have much appetite for a "play-in" Round.

This really has been a curious ATD-session. We had a rollicking, entertaining, enthusiastic draft-experience (it seemed)... and then the air went out of it. Speaking for myself, my enthusiasm took a hit with what I thought was one of the more WTF Regular Season results I've ever seen- and I'm speaking on behalf of several teams that I thought deserved a better fate than the one they received. Weird things happen with a narrow voting pool- it's kind of like when we have Playoff 3-stars, and losing team has First Star and Third Star.

However- to the original point, I guess quarters/semis/finals is the way to go, if this even has a chance of going anywhere at all.

[We NEED to pro-actively expand the Voter-Pool-- really, we do...]

Ming-the-Merciless would be it.

Do you want to run it? TDMM hasn't been on since Dec. 4th, maybe if we send PM people will get notified on their email.

I agree the draft was fantastic, but then the playoffs fizzled out. Who knows why in these interesting times? People might be busy, stressed out by pandemic-related issues, bored of the game, or whatever else. Might just be a coincidence.

Expand the voting poll? Depends who.

 

[VanIslander]

Do you want to run it? TDMM hasn't been on since Dec. 4th, ...

Really?

That is HIGHLY unusual. Three weeks? He is a regular poster. That is stunning... hope he is okay.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Ming-the-Merciless would be it.

Do you want to run it? TDMM hasn't been on since Dec. 4th, maybe if we send PM people will get notified on their email.

In order to give us SOME chance of finishing this, I would be willing to do as much as set up threads for all match-ups, and collect Votes for the upper-half of the quarters. [Collecting Votes for the lower half would be an immense conflict-of-interest, as that's my half of the draw.]

An Eight-Team Bracket would be:

San Jose Rubber Puckies
Verdun Maple Leafs

Regina Pats
Chicago Cougars


Montreal Wanderers
Hammond Organ Grinders

Richmond RiverDogs
Edmonton Flyers

Expand the voting pool? Depends who.

Previous ATD participants, & other "trusties" that post in the History Forum would be obvious potential survey-recipients.

Like much of the rest of the world, I'll have a pretty busy next couple of days... but by "Boxing Day," I expect to have a clear day, and I'll check in again.

Yet, with @TheDevilMadeMe not having been on-line since the start of the month, and @ResilientBeast not having posted since November, I'm simply hoping things are okay with them.