OPPF2021 Assassinations Thread

[BenchBrawl]

Coach: Toe Blake

Toe Blake (A) - Wayne Gretzky (C) - Sergei Makarov
Frank Mahovlich - Bryan Trottier (A) - Andy Bathgate
Patrick Elias - Milt Schmidt - Corey Perry
Gary Roberts - Anze Kopitar - Punch Broadbent

Chris Pronger - Mark Howe
Jan Suchy - Bill Quackenbush
Moose Johnson - Sergei Gonchar

Glenn Hall
Pekka Rinne


PP1: Gretzky
Makarov - Trottier - Bathgate
Pronger

PP2: Schmidt
Mahovlich - Blake - Bathgate
Howe

PK1: Trottier - Elias
Pronger - Quackenbush

PK2: Kopitar - Broadbent
Howe - Johnson​

Gretzky-Makarov are so good that I don't think their style really matters; they are too smart not to find a way to break the defenses apart. Toe Blake is OK to complement them. Maybe you already responded as to why you didn't pick Dickie Moore, but I could sorta see the point, although personally I would have gone with Moore anyway, because I suspect he was better than Blake even in the intangibles department. I could be wrong.

I know Bathgate had a powerful shot, but we need to settle his so-called playmaking bias, that might have been superficially created by him playing the PP point. Is Bathgate "sniper" enough to play the Bossy role, stylistically speaking? Not a fan of Mahovlich to complement them, I would rather see a player who brings a bit of intangibles to support Trottier. That said it's a very skilled 2nd line, can't take that away from it. Aesthetically, I'm not inspired by this 2nd line, even tho I see the individual value of its components.

Milt Schmidt is magnificent, and I hadn't realized this to the fullest extent until I picked him and made a bio for him last year. He was truly a Mark Messier, a true Boston legend, an ambassador. He is an elite 3rd liner. Elias and Perry are alright there. They both bring their own intangibles.

4th line is solid, Kopitar-Broadbent are a great combo.

I'm among the biggest Pronger supporters, but he is no #1D at this level. Basically, I like the Pronger-Howe pairing, but they are relatively very week in terms of value.

Suchy-Quackenbush is a nice fit, although do we know if Suchy played on the left side?

Moose-Gonchar is a classic defense-offense complementarity, and in terms of value they are solid for a bottom pair.

But overall, your blueline is a major weakness, because while it is reasonably deep, it really lacks BOTH a strong #1D and a strong #2D.

Glenn Hall is a top goalie, Rinne is an OK backup.

Special teams: 1st PP unit is great IMO, and your PK is alright. Why draft Gonchar if not playing him on the PP? I'd put him over Howe, who was more of an ES force IIRC.

Leadership: Please give an "A" to Milt Schmidt, easily. It's a solid leadership group regardless.

Overall, an interesting Gretzky team. The Gretzky-Makarov combo is unusual (many top line duos are this year, it's rather strange and fascinating). The center line is incredible, and Trottier and Schmidt are nightmares to play against, and then you have Gretzky. Your team will live or die on your center line. Your blueline is a major weakness. Goalie is a strength.

Toe Blake is a top coach, not sure how the team really fits with him, but I guess any team can fit with him. Trottier being on the 1st PK wave is not something I think Blake would have done tho, wasn't he notorious for only playing role players on the Pk (hence Henri Richard seldom played PK)? Anyway, not the end of the world.

 

[BenchBrawl]

miami VICE

roster

coaching

Glen Sather

forwards

Paul Kariya • Eric Lindros (A) • Jaromir Jagr [pond of nightmares]
Bobby Hull • Mike Modano • Brett Hull [golden cigarettes]
Bengt Ake Gustafsson • Peter Stastny • Marian Stastny [jan hammer connection]
Craig Ramsay • Patrice Bergeron • Jack Walker [superstar's blues]

Bobby Hull will get some looks on the top line with Lindros and Jagr

defense

Paul Coffey (C) • Larry Robinson (A)
Allan Stanley • Brian Leetch
Scott Niedermayer • Alexei Kasatonov

Coffey and Robinson will switch sides depending on the matchups

goalies

Terry Sawchuk
Billy Smith [will play to injure some star on the other team]

powerplay

first unit: Paul Kariya • Peter Stastny • Brett Hull with Bobby Hull • Paul Coffey
second unit: Mike Modano • Eric Lindros • Jaromir Jagr with Brian Leetch • Scott Niedermayer

shorthanded

first unit: Patrice Bergeron • Craig Ramsay with Allan Stanley • Larry Robinson
second unit: Mike Modano • Bengt Ake Gustafsson with Scott Niedermayer • Alexei Kasatonov

Leetch and Coffey and Bobby Hull get some time on the kill especially when a shorty is needed

Always glad to see you return to these drafts, with that 90's vibe of yours that reminds me of my younger days. I know your main goal is not to win these things, so I'll keep that in mind, but I'll just review the team as I do the others.

Not surprised to see Lindros on your top line, even tho you did tell me you weren't planning on it. I'm really intrigued by a Lindros-Jagr combo in their primes, sounds amazing. Kariya is OK, would have preferred a more defense-oriented LWer. I get the hockey pond concept tho.

Bobby Hull is your best player, and he's a monster on the 2nd line. I think Modano is a good center for him. We know Modano-Brett are a good combo, but not sure both Hull's on the same line is optimal. That said, it's a really dangerous threat for a 2nd line. I was some sort of Dallas fan in the late-90s (I'm a Montreal fan but they were irrelevant back in those days), so I appreciate everything that Mo brings to the table.

I'll be honest, it's a nice trick to reunite the Stastny's, but the value just isn't there. I always give points to originality and reuniting real life partners (something I often try to do myself), but this was pushing it. In my eyes, your magnificent 4th line is actually your 3rd line. Just a devastating defensive line left to right.

Coffey-Robinson is an interesting pairing, because mentally it works very well, they complement each other, tho in real life Robinson was partnered with Serge Savard, the complete opposite of Coffey. But Robinson played with Lapointe and other guys too. Just curious whether playing with Coffey would suffocate some of Robinson's offense. Anyway, Robinson was one of the best defensive defenseman, so he can certainly excel with Coffey.

I'm a big fan of Allan Stanley. I think he's underrated. I love him there with Leetch, but I worry that both played the left side in real life. Obviously, Stanley isn't a powerhouse at this level, but for when you picked up, he was a solid choice. I was planning on picking him up too when we were the last two teams standing who could pick from Toronto. Went with Gilmour by necessity, but Stanley was a target for several rounds.

Niedermayer-Kasatanov is an excellent 3rd pairing, top notch.

I rank Terry Sawchuk higher than most I think. The old-timers hold him in higher regards than current wisdom. I consider him a top goalie even at this level.

Special units: I would definitely put Jagr on the 1st PP unit in place of Kariya. Maybe it's not his natural "office", but still rather Jagr on his off-wing than Kariya on his natural wing IMO. I know @overpass made a study on the top PP quaterbacks at some point, would be curious to know who was better between Coffey and Leetch. People would assume Coffey, but from what I remember he was "just" very good there, but not above the pack of other greats, compared to even-strenght offense. Anyway, PP is solid with both Hulls, major shooting threats.

The 1st PK is sublime, 2nd unit I would put Walker in there.

Overall, a very tabness-like team, full of 90's nostalgia and stars, and with some neat concepts on every line. Glen Sather is a great coach for your team too. It has a ton of firepower, and you have Coffey to support Jagr offensively, and Leetch to support Bobby Hull, which makes it a very dynamic offensive squad.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Hammond(Indiana)Organ® Grinders

Coach-Fred Shero

#11 Sweeney Schriner-#7 Howie Morenz-#17 Jari Kurri
#9 Vladimir Krutov-#19 Joe Sakic (A)-#10 Pavel Bure
#26 Jere Lehtinen-#91 Segei Fedorov-#24 Cecil Dillon
#20 Jiří Holík-#28 Claude Giroux-#86 Nikita Kucherov

#21 Börje Salming-#77 Raymond Bourque (A)
#5 Denis Potvin (C)-#6 Shea Weber
#2 Duncan Keith-#27 Teppo Numminen​

#1 Clint Benedict
#30 Hugh Lehman
​

PP1: Giroux-Morenz-Krutov
Bourque-Weber
PP2: Kurri-Sakic-Schriner
Potvin-Fedorov
(spare PPers- Bure, Kucherov)

PK1: Lehtinen-Fedorov
Potvin-Bourque
PK2: Sakic-Dillon
Keith-Numminen
(spare PKers- Salming, Weber, Morenz, Kurri)

The Morenz-Kurri combo is another unusual duo from a top line, but the line works as a whole with Schriner. Schriner was a good playmaker, and both Morenz and Kurri bring the defense and goalscoring. Morenz was one of the greatest skaters ever, and he was really a key pick for you when you got him. He's your only game-breaking talent upfront at this level, so it was a good thing to acquire him in extremis.

I'm willing to concede Sakic-Bure as an imaginative experiment, and to see it in their best potential. Krutov brings the muscle and some more goalscoring, although about that, I normally would like to see a bit more playmaking on a Sakic line. That said, it's still an interesting line, and the Sakic-Bure duo is rather strange and interesting.

Good defensive 3rd line, albeit quite weak offensively. Not sure you had the firepower upfront to afford something like that. I like Dillon as a defensively-responsible secondary scorer, and Fedorov is solid here as a 3rd line center. Bure would look great on that line, tho Dillon not so much on the 2nd, but just a thought-experiment. I wouldn't actually do it, but am thinking of it, of a Fedorov-Bure combo. Unstoppable skating.

Not a fan of Kucherov-like players on 4th lines, unless they play a major role on special units, which he doesn't appear to do here. I love Jiri Holik as a bottom-6 LWer (I see him a bit like Dillon). Giroux is OK, especially since he can play LW and offers versatility, brings a strong right-handed faceoff man, and is strong on the PP.

This year, I decided to take a page out of the book of @zffssk and go with an A-C, B-D set-up at defense.

I would usually not recommend it, but there are situations where it works for the best. It's a risky strategy. On the other hand, I think it was appropriate for your blueline and you made the right choice. I can picture Potvin-Bourque working just fine, but it feels better to hand them each their own pairing.

Your blueline is a major strength, and you will always have a solid 1st pairing-level duo of defensemen on the ice (or almost).

Salming-Bourque is a great, honest pairing of immense talent. Bourque is an elite #1D, and Salming at even-strength is even better than his usual ranking.

Potvin-Weber has been done before, but it truly never gets old. It's such a perfect pairing, very intimidating, with two great leaders who won't take any bullshit and punish the opposition. Potvin is my 2nd most favorite defenseman of all-time (after Doug Harvey), just the ideal prototype.

Keith-Numminem is good, and yes Keith is elite on a 3rd pairing, however, keeping in mind that I cannot possibly reconstruct your exact drafting situation at the time of the Keith pick, it seemed greedy to pick a luxurious piece like Keith on the 3rd pairing, when you lacked a bit of pop upfront. Could another pick have been made to help your forward squad? I don't know, because I'm not sure who was available. I just don't think Keith was worth it considering your top two pairings can virtually play the entire game nonstop, but if no one else was available, hey, why not? It's a case of: a piece of cake is great, the whole cake might make you sick.

Clint Benedict is a weak-ish goalie, but very clutch and proved himself capable of winning behind different teams. I think Hugh Lehman is the perfect backup for him, mostly because they complement each other's weaknesses. Lehman's star power was bigger than Benedict, and some think he might have been better, but I'd always start Benedict personally.

Special units: In very few universe would I leave Potvin out of your 1st unit, and that ain't of them. I would without any doubt throw a Potvin-Bourque pairing in there. Even if you truly wanted Weber's shot out there, I would at least put him on the left, so he has the best angle for his one-timer. But nah, Potvin all the way! I would also consider stacking up your 1st unit (the only one that matters in my eyes), by including Sakic there, probably over Giroux.

PK forwards are excellent, I might put Weber over Numminem though, more useful around the net. Unless there's something I miss about Numminem.

Overall, this team will live or die on the performance of its blueline, and will rely a lot on Morenz (and to a lesser extent, Sakic). The offense upfront is really thin, so a lot will be asked of Bourque and Potvin on that front, and whether your team goes all the way will rest on that. Leadership is excellent. Shero looks good with them I think, tho I have no strong opinion on that front. Shero remains obscure to me for some reason.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I will assassinate all the rest later, and post my own team with the icetime tables.

 

[tabness]

Always glad to see you return to these drafts, with that 90's vibe of yours that reminds me of my younger days. I know your main goal is not to win these things, so I'll keep that in mind, but I'll just review the team as I do the others.

Not surprised to see Lindros on your top line, even tho you did tell me you weren't planning on it. I'm really intrigued by a Lindros-Jagr combo in their primes, sounds amazing. Kariya is OK, would have preferred a more defense-oriented LWer. I get the hockey pond concept tho.

Bobby Hull is your best player, and he's a monster on the 2nd line. I think Modano is a good center for him. We know Modano-Brett are a good combo, but not sure both Hull's on the same line is optimal. That said, it's a really dangerous threat for a 2nd line. I was some sort of Dallas fan in the late-90s (I'm a Montreal fan but they were irrelevant back in those days), so I appreciate everything that Mo brings to the table.

I'll be honest, it's a nice trick to reunite the Stastny's, but the value just isn't there. I always give points to originality and reuniting real life partners (something I often try to do myself), but this was pushing it. In my eyes, your magnificent 4th line is actually your 3rd line. Just a devastating defensive line left to right.

Coffey-Robinson is an interesting pairing, because mentally it works very well, they complement each other, tho in real life Robinson was partnered with Serge Savard, the complete opposite of Coffey. But Robinson played with Lapointe and other guys too. Just curious whether playing with Coffey would suffocate some of Robinson's offense. Anyway, Robinson was one of the best defensive defenseman, so he can certainly excel with Coffey.

I'm a big fan of Allan Stanley. I think he's underrated. I love him there with Leetch, but I worry that both played the left side in real life. Obviously, Stanley isn't a powerhouse at this level, but for when you picked up, he was a solid choice. I was planning on picking him up too when we were the last two teams standing who could pick from Toronto. Went with Gilmour by necessity, but Stanley was a target for several rounds.

Niedermayer-Kasatanov is an excellent 3rd pairing, top notch.

I rank Terry Sawchuk higher than most I think. The old-timers hold him in higher regards than current wisdom. I consider him a top goalie even at this level.

Special units: I would definitely put Jagr on the 1st PP unit in place of Kariya. Maybe it's not his natural "office", but still rather Jagr on his off-wing than Kariya on his natural wing IMO. I know @overpass made a study on the top PP quaterbacks at some point, would be curious to know who was better between Coffey and Leetch. People would assume Coffey, but from what I remember he was "just" very good there, but not above the pack of other greats, compared to even-strenght offense. Anyway, PP is solid with both Hulls, major shooting threats.

The 1st PK is sublime, 2nd unit I would put Walker in there.

Overall, a very tabness-like team, full of 90's nostalgia and stars, and with some neat concepts on every line. Glen Sather is a great coach for your team too. It has a ton of firepower, and you have Coffey to support Jagr offensively, and Leetch to support Bobby Hull, which makes it a very dynamic offensive squad.

Thanks for not only the review, but for taking all my lists, and most of all, the chats during the draft, always appreciate your approachability man.

I did the best I could with having missed out on many centers with Lindros and Modano, though I'm happy to get Bobby Hull and Jagr as the first picks to mitigate some of that. In the conventional evaluations here, they would be the ones carrying the line, and also are the ones with the good VsX numbers and what not, and both are multi talented players who carry the puck like top notch centers.

Interestingly enough, I never at all planned to take Peter Stastny whatsoever, I really had wanted centers like Schmidt and Keon midway through the draft. Missing out on Keon, was thinking Gilmour a bit, but I also like to draft based on talent a bit. What sold me on Stastny was his great even strength road performance, my pet stat for the time. Stastny would likely be stereotyped as a player who you'd expect to have a big disparity between home and road, but he does very well. A secondary reason is filing in for Lindros if/when he hurt, Stastny and Jagr has a nice aesthetic to it lol

Coffey really separates himself from other defensemen except Orr with his even strength (and shorthanded) scoring, so I may take your advice on the powerplay and give a guy like Leetch more time there. Same sort of thing I'm going with holding off guys like Jagr and Lindros from the main powerplay, I want them to play more at even strength, give some of the other players some looks and shelter them more off the powerplay.

I liked Stanley from what little I've seem of him, so I couldn't bring myself to pick a couple of righty options over him. Got at least one defenseman who played with Sawchuk, and good size for an original six player as well. Leetch definitely played much of his career on the left, is a lefty, but he did have to play on the right a bit, especially later in his Rangers tenure. A lefty offensive defenseman on the right also does have some benefits.

I think I will merge the advice you gave with @ChiTownPhilly, keep Stanley and Leetch together on the third pairing, put Leetch on the first powerplay unit.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Thanks much for the review- you always bring it when you look at these teams. The one thing I thought I'd remark on is this bit of drafting strategy:

Keith-Numminem is good, and yes Keith is elite on a 3rd pairing, however, keeping in mind that I cannot possibly reconstruct your exact drafting situation at the time of the Keith pick, it seemed greedy to pick a luxurious piece like Keith on the 3rd pairing, when you lacked a bit of pop upfront. Could another pick have been made to help your forward squad? I don't know, because I'm not sure who was available. I just don't think Keith was worth it considering your top two pairings can virtually play the entire game nonstop, but if no one else was available, hey, why not? It's a case of: a piece of cake is great, the whole cake might make you sick.

Scena- it's the 10th Round. Everybody has played their Chicago Card- except for me- and TheDevilMadeMe. As you know, I already had my Top-4 D. TheDevilMadeMe only had two Ds- AND (after my selection), he picks twice before I pick again. I have three choices-
1) get Keith now, because there was nfw he was going to last if I waited.
2) say goodbye to Keith, meaning I'd have to use MY Chicago card to either-
a) pick Doug Bentley in Round 21, which means I would have had to shape my picks to leave a "hole" for him to drop into, or
b) leave Chicago as a Goalie Rescue Pod and do something even more radical than start Benedict. [Belfour? I'm really not feeling that...]

Question then becomes "what Forward did I really miss a trick on- by picking Keith- to the point that I'd say "damn, I wish I had HIM instead of Krutov!" Bryan Hextall? Certainly not. Krutov's objectively better than him- plus- I hadn't abandoned my Art Coulter fantasy. Goulet? Not so- not only is he not objectively better than Krutov, he's not even an option, having burned my Quebec-Colorado card on Sakic. Apps? Keon? Busher Jackson? Also not options- I used my Toronto card on Salming. Mark Recchi? He's south of Krutov, PLUS he burns the Philadelphia card. That leaves Nels Stewart. So (assuming perfect anticipation), the choice is-

Nels Stewart+Doug Bentley+whatever leavings I have to pick up on account of missing Keith, vs.
Duncan Keith+Vladimir Krutov+whatever options I decide to pursue, down-the-road.

I freely admit it was a gamble. However this turns out, I DON'T regret it.

Edit: last-minute note on Special Teams:

Special units: In very few universe would I leave Potvin out of your 1st unit, and that ain't of them. I would without any doubt throw a Potvin-Bourque pairing in there. Even if you truly wanted Weber's shot out there, I would at least put him on the left, so he has the best angle for his one-timer. But nah, Potvin all the way! I would also consider stacking up your 1st unit (the only one that matters in my eyes), by including Sakic there, probably over Giroux.

The initial placing of Weber was an oversight- one I recognized before I went back to your response and saw that you called attention to it, as well. The appropriate correction has been made. One final musing- as can be seen by the time-on-ice chart, I really feel that (at least in the Regular Season), I have a 1 & 1a Power Play Unit. Potvin will get a good bit of time on the man-advantage. Who comes over-the-boards when the O.G.s go to the Power Play? Well, which players are the freshest?! It's axiomatic that one of the maxims of a successful Power Play is- commit to working more energetically than the Kill-Unit you're facing. Routinely using fresher personnel should provide Hammond the chance to do just that.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

@ChiTownPhilly thank you for the detailed review, just a couple comments...

First Pairing- Pilote-Clapper... I am sorry. I just can't get past it. Pilote at LEFT D?!? I have NO memory of that, just none. So I went searching through ATDs, half-a-dozen Main ATDs, and a quartet of OPPFs. I've found ONE instance of Pilote used on LD- it was in an OPPF, by a GM that didn't make The Playoffs. I'll say Chicago has the burden-of-proof to demonstrate that this isn't a LABOTHO (Laterality-Botch-of-the-Highest-Order). I'll do my "hang-up-and-listen" thing now... but if we can't find some receipts, the Cats just might have to Dropkick Murphy and add-drop their way out of this, even if it leaves some really junior partners there on the left side. [As talents, they're probably lower-half in this league, regardless...]

Yes, Pilote mainly (perhaps only) played RD in real life. The way the draft worked out, after Robinson got taken, there just wasn't a LD available that was good enough to fill a top pair role next to Pilote (I suppose Salming, but then I would've had to pass on Conacher and that wasn't happening).

The one thing that I do want to point out is that Pilote is a LHS moving to LD, which IMO is a much better situation than moving a D to his "unnatural" side (i.e. a LHS who normally played LD moving to RD), and I think this is even more acceptable for good puck handler like Pilote (as opposed to a more defensive minded Dman switching sides). That being said, Pilote does deserve some discount here for playing the left side, I just don't think it's a large one.

Also, while it appears from your research that this hasn't been done successfully with Pilote before, this has been done with other players successfully, the first that comes to mind is Red Kelly playing RD on both TDMM and my ATD Championship teams (and this was actually a LHS who normally played LD switching to RD).

Power Play=all right, Penalty Kill=VERY good (excellent with the Forwards).

I'm a bit surprised to see you calling my PP just "all right." Maybe I'm misinterpreting what that means...I don't think my PP is top of the league, but I think it is good. Focusing on the 1st unit, which I personally weigh much more heavily than 2nd units when evaluating PP units...

MacInnis is elite on the point. He's the best PP point man of his generation, and it's a pretty stacked generation that includes Bourque and Coffey, which means he's at least in the conversation for 2nd best PP point man of all time after Orr (not sure I'd have him there myself, but he at least warrants consideration).

I also think Lalonde is an elite level PP net front man when considering his size, scoring ability, and nastiness.

Thornton in a vacuum may be nothing special, but he fits the role he's being asked to play as a pure distributer perfectly, especially with 2 HEAVY shots as options for him in MacInnis and Conacher.

Lindsay is not elite, but certainly belongs on any first unit, a solid all around offensive player that can also help retrieve loose pucks.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Montreal Wanderers

Pete Green

Alexander Ovechkin - Sidney Crosby (C) - Martin St. Louis
Baldy Northcott - Frank Boucher - Maurice Richard (A)
John LeClair - Doug Gilmour - Theoren Fleury
Dave Andreychuk - Bobby Holik - Ryan Kesler

Red Kelly (A) - Earl Seibert
Ryan Suter - Erik Karlsson
Hod Stuart - Vladimir Lutchenko

Frank Brimsek
Jonathan Quick

PP1: Andreychuk-Crosby-Richard
Ovechkin-Kelly

PP2: LeClair-Boucher-St. Louis
Seibert-Karlsson

PK1: Boucher-Kesler
Stuart-Seibert

PK2: Northcott-Gilmour
Kelly-Lutchenko
​

Approximative TOI

	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Crosby	14	4	1	19
M.Richard	14	4	0	18
Ovechkin	13	5*	0	18
F.Boucher	12	2	4	18
Gilmour	13	1	2	16
St. Louis	13	3	0	16
Northcott	13	0	3	16
LeClair	13	3	0	16
Fleury	13	0	0	13
Andreychuk	9	4	0	13
Kesler	9	0	4	13
Holik	9	0	0	9
	145	26	14	185
	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Kelly	18	5	3	26
Seibert	18	2	4	24
Karlsson	16	2	0	18
Stuart	14	0	4	18
Suter	16	0	0	16
Lutchenko	10	0	3	13
	92	9	14	115

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Ovechkin on the PP point.

 

[The Macho King]

Montreal Wanderers

Pete Green

Alexander Ovechkin - Sidney Crosby (C) - Martin St. Louis
Baldy Northcott - Frank Boucher - Maurice Richard (A)
John LeClair - Doug Gilmour - Theoren Fleury
Dave Andreychuk - Bobby Holik - Ryan Kesler

Red Kelly (A) - Earl Seibert
Ryan Suter - Erik Karlsson
Hod Stuart - Vladimir Lutchenko

Frank Brimsek
Jonathan Quick

PP1: Andreychuk-Crosby-Richard
Ovechkin-Kelly

PP2: LeClair-Boucher-St. Louis
Seibert-Karlsson

PK1: Boucher-Kesler
Stuart-Seibert

PK2: Northcott-Gilmour
Kelly-Lutchenko
​

Approximative TOI

	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Crosby	14	4	1	19
M.Richard	14	4	0	18
Ovechkin	13	5*	0	18
F.Boucher	12	2	4	18
Gilmour	13	1	2	16
St. Louis	13	3	0	16
Northcott	13	0	3	16
LeClair	13	3	0	16
Fleury	13	0	0	13
Andreychuk	9	4	0	13
Kesler	9	0	4	13
Holik	9	0	0	9
	145	26	14	185
	ES	PP	PK	TOT
Kelly	18	5	3	26
Seibert	18	2	4	24
Karlsson	16	2	0	18
Stuart	14	0	4	18
Suter	16	0	0	16
Lutchenko	10	0	3	13
	92	9	14	115

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Ovechkin on the PP point.

Top 6 is great - no real issues. Don't know if MSL is a "top line winger" in this format, and I wonder a *bit* about the chemistry fit there. MSL excelled as a rush player more than anything, and I don't know if Crosby and Ovi make the most of his skillset there, but I don't think it's a problem. Other issue is Crosby is forced to play the puck retriever role - which may not be the most ideal use of his talents there. But still - nitpicking a bit - that's a solid line. And your second line is fantastic.

You have a strong top 6, and your bottom six is very... "meh" I guess. My concern is there isn't a real line I would call a "checking line" here. Did Fleury play with Gilmour in Calgary btw? Just a question. But while Gilmour is a strong defensive player, Fleury and LeClair were more not really great in that role. You almost have a solid fourth checking line, but I question the Andreychuk pick there, because that drains their effectiveness as checkers, and I don't think he adds a ton to your top PP to really make up for the miscasting here.

On D - top pair is great, no notes. Second pair... eh I am not at all sold as Suter as a top 4 D in this league, and while he eats minutes, he eats low event minutes, while Karlsson is all about creating events (and it occurs both ways). I'm also not crazy about Lutchenko in a ten-team league, but ultimately I don't think the #6 guy is one that would sink you one way or the other.

Brimsek is a middle-of-the-road starter in this league - no issues there. Quick is a bit of a boom/bust backup, but certainly has shown he's a guy who can get hot and carry a team when he needs to.

I think you have one of the best top 6s in the league. I don't think your bottom six is *bad*, but I think it has a bit of a hole where trying to force offense on all four lines leaves you a little thin in some areas. Your D is the same - you took care of the top of the lineup but left some big holes on the bottom end. The team just feels a little top heavy to me.

 

[tinyzombies]

VERDUN MAPLE LEAVES

Coach: Al Arbour
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

Scott Stevens (A) --- Bobby Orr
Eddie Gerard (A) --- Tim Horton
Roman Josi --- Brent Burns

Patrick Roy
Braden Holtby​

PP1: Orr, Burns, Malkin, Mikita, Cook
PP2: Gerard, Dionne, Delvecchio, Kharlamov, Fredrickson

PK1: Gerard, Horton, Fredrickson, Delvecchio
PK2: Stevens, Orr, Goulet, Gare/Tonelli

Estimated Regular Season Minutes

Forwards
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
Mikita	15	4		19
Cook	16	4		20
Kharlamov	16	3		19
Malkin	14	4		18
Delvecchio	12	3	4	19
Recchi	14			14
Dionne	13	3		16
Goulet	11		3	14
Nedomansky	12			12
Fredrickson	6	3	4	13
Tonelli	5		2	7
Gare	5		2	7
TOTAL	138	24	15

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*Delvecchio will switch to center in place of Malkin for key faceoffs and to protect leads.

Defense
Player	ES	PP	PK	Total
Orr	13	4	3	20
Stevens	20		3	23
Gerard	14	3	4	21
Horton	19		4	23
Burns	13	4		17
Josi	12			12
TOTAL	91	11	14	116

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Here's my team:

San Jose Rubber Puckies

Coach: Tommy Ivan

Tommy Phillips - Mario Lemieux (C) - Guy Lafleur
Johnny Bucyk - Peter Forsberg - Mike Bossy
Doug Bentley - Dave Keon - Glenn Anderson
Keith Tkachuk - Nicklas Backstrom - Jimmy Ward

Nicklas Lidstrom (A) - Brad Park
Georges Boucher - Eric Desjardins
Derian Hatcher - Rob Blake

Vladislav Tretiak
Curtis Joseph

Powerplay:
Johnny Bucyk - Mario Lemieux - Mike Bossy
Guy Lafleur - Nicklas Lidstrom

PP2: Doug Bentley - Peter Forsberg - Keith Tkachuk
Brad Park - Rob Blake

Penalty Kill:

Dave Keon - Tommy Phillips
Nicklas Lidstrom - Derian Hatcher

Mario Lemieux - Jimmy Ward
Brad Park - Rob Blake

Doug Bentley - Peter Forsberg

​

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

One thing I think you missed a bit (or maybe understated) - I don't just have 1-2 depth here. I have 1-2-3-4 depth at C...

Yes- Richmond has the best collection of Centers this year. Gretzky is top of his class among #1 Centers, Trottier is top of his class among #2 Centers, Mlit Schmidt is no worse than the "show" position among #3 Centers, and Kopitar is upper-half among #4 Centers.
Interesting question is: "who's Second Place in that category?"

I'm a bit surprised to see you calling my PP just "all right." Maybe I'm misinterpreting what that means...I don't think my PP is top of the league, but I think it is good.

A little too breezy on my part, I'll admit. Your Power Play is "all right" the way Laval's 4th Line is "all right." Glad you had an opportunity to focus on it for a while.

VERDUN MAPLE LEAVES

Leadership- Al Arbour was a Coaching Target, for me (reconnecting Arbour/Potvin), but you beat me to the punch and scored your upper-half Coach. With Cook/Stevens/Girard, it feels like you could put all the letters in a hat, have each of these three reach in & grab one, and not go wrong however it came out(!)

Goaltending- Roy=ne plus ultra. Holtby is (at this level) a pedestrian back-up, for all the difference that makes.

First Line- Kharlamov-Mikita-Bi. Cook- Well, we know Bill Cook meets The Bill Cook Standard. However, Stan Mikita doesn't. Neither does Kharlamov... but it's a little unfair to judge Kharlamov vis-à-vis Bill Cook, especially since Kharlamov is an upper-half First Line LW in this League. Middle-of-pack? Lower half(?)

Second Line- Delvecchio-Malkin-Recchi- if Laval doesn't have the lowest-rated 2nd Line, then it's their rivals to the South, Verdun. All three elements below average, when contrasted to other 2nd Liners playing the same role(s).

Third Line- Goulet-Dionne-Nedomansky- Doesn't it feel like we're dealing with three shoot-first players on the same line? When viewed alongside the other two lines, it also starts to have that All-Star-Squad vibe to it. I think a re-blend is in order. There has to be another way...

Fourth Line- Tonelli-Fredrickson-Gare- Once past Fredrickson, it doesn't seem like this line brings anything to worry anybody. At 5/6 even-strength minutes each, no 4th line is likely to be asked to do less.

From here, it's back to good news...

First Pairing- Stevens-Orr: among the very best. The Ice-Time Chart for Orr reads like a Front-Office directive to keep Orr fresh & healthy for The Playoffs- as a first priority.

Second Pairing- Gerard-Horton: another strong duo. Upper-half 2nd set.

Third Pairing: Josi-Burns: passable 3rd pairing. Likely on the low-side, for 10 teams.

I may be among the least-qualified to comment on Power Plays- as it's the aspect of ATD with which I struggle the most- but I like the unconventional grouping of the Verdun PP1- with three R-Handed shots. It gives the feel of a Unit that will require adjustments on the part of opponents in order to deal with its iconoclastic nature. The fact that the 2nd Unit is a clear step down is one of those things, like the difference between the 6th best-goalie & the 8th best goalie, that I just don't think matters that much, in the grand scheme.

Except for 13 minutes of Regular Season even-strength time, nothing says "I'm going to keep something in the gas-tank for The Playoffs" quite so much as having Orr on PK2. The Kill-Squads are nice, especially down low- and anyone trying to body in front will wind up paying a price.

I had earlier said that this squad was Defense & Goaltending reliant. I didn't mean that as a criticism- in fact- I think that "pythagoreans" demonstrate that one achieves more stable success that way than trying to do it the other way 'round.

The more I look, the more I like about this squad. I'm not sure that line-composition is at its optimal, yet. Verdun was also subject to a drafting miscue this year (though not the most glaring one, nor even the second most glaring one). Still, they came out on the other side with a nice assemblage of talent- and have made clear that they're not here to compete for the OPPF Presidents Trophy. Lots of winners approach the season with that mentality. Good luck to you.

 

[VanIslander]

Yes- Richmond has the best collection of Centers this year. Gretzky is top of his class among #1 Centers, Trottier is top of his class among #2 Centers, Mlit Schmidt is no worse than the "show" position among #3 Centers, and Kopitar is upper-half among #4 Centers.

Well...

Gretzky
...
Yzerman = Trottier
Kennedy
Schmidt
Malone
Francis
...
Kopitar

Note: I personally have never thought Milt Schmidt a stitch better than Joe Malone! (Schmidt is NOT defensive, is miscast as 3rd line pivot - unlike Kennedy locked & loaded to hold leads - and Milt should be a bargain 2nd liner here.)

Richmond is #1 due to Gretzky (not by much over Laval). Thankfully he has said my Fetisov was the hardest dman he has ever faced and he hasn't had the privilege to face my Doug Harvey whom Gordie "avoided".

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Richmond is #1 due to Gretzky (not by much over Laval).

Give @The Macho King his due- Richmond is #1 due to his quartet. It didn't come without a cost (like- having the Last-Place 1st Defensive Pairing), but if we think Central Strength is a necessary feature here, then they pulled it down, Big-Time.

Comparisons between their Centers and those of Laval are, quite honestly, embarrassing:

Gretzky >>> Yzerman
Trottier >>> Malone
Schmidt & Kennedy are no worse than in-the-ballpark (most have Schmidt ahead)
Kopitar << Francis (for all the difference 4th-liners make).

Let's instead compare Laval with someone who has standard-level Centers (at least through the first three)- like The Wanderers...

Crosby>>Yzerman [I have them closer than most, but even @Sentinel recognizes that Crosby is superior.]
F. Boucher>Malone
Gilmour<Kennedy
B. Holik<<<Francis (again, for all the difference 4th-liners make).

To cite one of my oft-used metaphors, if you said "I move that Laval's Centers, as a group, are no worse than equal to Montreal's," then I suspect that the motion would die for lack of a "second."

There are a few positive things that may be said about Laval. "Laval Centers may be compared favorably with anyone's" is NOT one of those things. It actually does damage to one's credibility if one attempts that case.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Yes- Richmond has the best collection of Centers this year. Gretzky is top of his class among #1 Centers, Trottier is top of his class among #2 Centers, Mlit Schmidt is no worse than the "show" position among #3 Centers, and Kopitar is upper-half among #4 Centers.
Interesting question is: "who's Second Place in that category?"

Apps/Clarke/Nighbor/Getzlaf

By virtue of Gretzky @The Macho King has the better group than me, no arguments here. But slam dunk second best for my team

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Suchy-Quackenbush: We're also talking about two Ds best known for their O.
I wouldn't play Suchy as an LD. Just wouldn't do it.
I don't know if you can add-drop your way out of this.

Actually, this is as easy a fix as one can make- simply invert-
Quackenbush-Suchý. They'll need to go heavy on the O-zone starts- but other than that, problem solved.

Apps/Clarke/Nighbor/Getzlaf

By virtue of Gretzky @The Macho King has the better group than me, no arguments here. But slam dunk second best for my team

Full marks for Clarke & Nighbor, sure- but Apps is saved from being the least-regarded First Liner in-the-draft by the presence of Lindros- and Getzlaf, in the past three ATDs, has been selected at an average position of...

X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X5_2	Final
30	60	90	120	150	180	210	240	270	282	282*

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

*(»282« good for bowling, not so good for main-ATD draft positions in a 200-player league.)
[Considering that, I believe this to be comfortably distant from "slam-dunk" territory.]

 

[VanIslander]

Apps, Delvecchio and Abel are legit worthwhile 24-team ATD 1st line pivots.

But they are disadvantaged in a 10-team draft, especially if they don't have superstar teammates on the ice at the same time (e.g., Howe, Orr, Harvey).

5 skaters should be judged together. Of course, goalie and coach should too, but to a lesser degree in terms of evaluating effective chemistry and puck management.

For example, a shift with Adam Oates centering Brett Hull & Ted Lindsay and skating with Bobby Orr and Doug Harvey wouldn't be much of a weakness! Oates would be a good pick in terms of fit. (I believe that is how a Delvecchio and Backstrom got their all-time chops.)

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Only one Team who's posted a Roster remains un-reviewed...

San Jose Rubber Puckies​

Leadership- at this level, the difference between the 4th most-esteemed Coach & the 6th most-esteemed Coach doesn't count for anything. What's likely the bigger concern is fit-to-team... and Tommy Ivan is that. I consider Lemieux an under-rated Captain, and I've always liked Lidstrom as a lead-by-example man. Guess you haven't made up your mind who to give the 2nd 'A' to- glad it's your decision and not mine... I guess I'd plump for "Chief" [Bucyk] if it were my call. At this level of the troposphere, the Leadership is pretty ordinary.

First Line: T. Phillips-M. Lemieux-Lafleur Tommy Phillips is one of these HoFers that I monitor on the periphery of my drafting radar- only to wind up watching someone else take him. He's fine value, clearly. Lemieux gets the 'place' position among #1 Centers, by acclamation... and Lafleur is on-the-podium as a RW. They fit great, naturally... and if Regina's First Line isn't the best in the league, this one is.

Second Line: Bucyk-P. Forsberg-Bossy In normal worlds, Bossy would be the best 2nd line RW going. This is not a normal world, though- the Wanderers have launched a Rocket in this role. How can you not love Bossy-Forsberg together? [Although Forsberg's an injury-risk.] The question-mark here belongs to Bucyk, who was a 3rd-liner in the last draft... and San Jose paid a steep price to pick him where they did. Could have waited on him, I think. The only other players who hadn't used their Boston card by this time were tabs & Beast. I don't believe tabs was EVER taking him... and I don't think Beast would have, either. In spite of Bucyk being a below average (reverse podium?) LW at this level, it's a functional Second Line if Forsberg stays healthy.

Third Line: D. Bentley-Keon-G. Anderson Doug Bentley is the best 3rd Line LW going. Mated to a couple of middle-of-the-packers at this level, it's a quality (if a little under-sized) 3rd Line.

Fourth Line: K. Tkachuk-Backstrom-J. Ward The first two there for what they bring to Special Teams- and that's pretty cool. Jimmy Ward was a sentimental pick of mine in last year's draft... and I think there's a bit more that can yet be told about his story. I have no problem placing him in the upper half of the pack at this tier.

First Pairing: Lidstrom-B. Park Count me among the people who might bore you by prattling on about how I think Lidstrom is under-rated. Probably surprised a few people by using the Detroit Card right there at the front of the 3rd round... but I think San Jose got fair goods. Of course, no-one (who's been paying attention) was surprised by the Brad Park selection. Pairing as solid AF, sound AF, and will have to be that way all season long, keeping each other's spirits up, as I'm sure that Tommy Ivan will be tempted to play them for half the game, night-after-night, because after them comes...

Second Pairing: G. Boucher-E. Desjardins Oh, dear. Some people got 3rd pairings better than this 2nd pairing. This year's 2nd pairing Lantern Rouge.

Third pairing: D. Hatcher-R. Blake has close-to-luxury casting with Blake here. Big on physicality, it's a sound 3rd pairing... one I would expect to receive about as many minutes as your second one.

Goaltending: Tretiak C. Joseph- I have NO problem considering Tretiak an upper-half Goaltender in this league. What difference that makes remains a little in dispute- but San Jose gets quality starts, no doubt.

Wrapping up with the stunning Power Play- and not quite as stunning Penalty Kill, it bears stating that San Jose has several Extraordinary Gentlemen on their team- Lafleur (multiple Byng Finalist), Lidstrom (also multiple Byng Finalist), Bossy (actual multiple Byng winner) and Dave Keon (also a two-time Byng winner). Add to this Lemieux's considerable capacity for inducing restraining fouls, and you have a team that's going to the man-advantage more than they're killing one off. Hard to say how much this should count for- but it should count for something.

​

 

[VanIslander]

Indeed.

 

[VanIslander]

These four could not make the Laval starting line up: Boucher, Dejardins, Hatcher, Blake.

A gulf.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Montreal Wanderers

​

Top 6 is great - no real issues. Don't know if MSL is a "top line winger" in this format, and I wonder a *bit* about the chemistry fit there. MSL excelled as a rush player more than anything, and I don't know if Crosby and Ovi make the most of his skillset there, but I don't think it's a problem. Other issue is Crosby is forced to play the puck retriever role - which may not be the most ideal use of his talents there. But still - nitpicking a bit - that's a solid line. And your second line is fantastic.

One thing I just love about the Montreal first two lines is that they alternate the point of primary scoring concern on each. Ovechkin's the top 1st line LW in the League (remember- Miami has Bobby Hull on their #2 line), and Maurice Richard is the top 2nd line RW in the League. What Pete Green can do with the match-ups, particularly at home, is going to be a drag for the rest of us.

Another thing I saw- looking at the minutes chart- I see that for a couple of shifts a game, Green has the option of entering the combination into the briefcase and arming an Ovechkin-Crosby-Richard tactical-weapon.

Pretty much agree with the previous review that a price is paid with not only the quality of the bottom-six, but also the clarity-of-role for those players. I did see that the last line has all RH-shots. In my previous OPPF, an all RHS-line was something I first balked at doing, then dabbed my toe in, then finally took the plunge when I recognized that doing so was better than keeping a blatantly overmatched Undrafted Center on the Third Line. After further thought, I've decided I like the unconventionality of it- all the moreso with multiple teams going banco on LHS-Defencemen.

On D - top pair is great, no notes.

The Wanderers must have been doing the Jig of Joy to find Red Kelly available- in a 10-team draft- at slot 29. Alpha LD is one of those points of early-commitment in OPPF. You get Potvin, or you get Lidstrom, or you get Kelly, or you get Fetisov, or you burn a Canadiens Card (one of two chances), or you pick Coffey and try to sell the idea of "do-unto-them-before-they-do-unto-you." If you don't have any of the above happen, you need Reading Utility Truck-sized compensation (like Richmond's collection of Centers).

 

[tinyzombies]

irst Line: T. Phillips-M. Lemieux-Lafleur Tommy Phillips is one of these HoFers that I monitor on the periphery of my drafting radar- only to wind up watching someone else take him. He's fine value, clearly.

​

I had Phillips-Lemieux-Bill Cook in the other draft and was told PHillips is not first line material.hmmmmph

 

[VanIslander]

Hockey before Gordie Howe is begrudgingly admitted.

That is an awesome line.

It ain't Lindsay - Gretzky - Howe but no team has ever corralled those three.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Drop: Tonelli
Add: Kovalchuk (Atl)

Out: Gare
In: McDavid (edM)

Before:
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

After:
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli Ilya Kovalchuk --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

Connor McDavid
​

Return of the Five Centers Gambit.

 

[The Macho King]

Before:
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

After:
Valeri Kharlamov --- Stan Mikita --- Bill Cook (C)
Alex Delvecchio* --- Evgeni Malkin --- Mark Recchi
Michel Goulet --- Marcel Dionne --- Vaclav Nedomansky
John Tonelli Ilya Kovalchuk --- Frank Fredrickson --- Danny Gare

Connor McDavid
​

Return of the Five Centers Gambit.

AKA We don't need to stinking defense!