Post-Game Talk: Old Joe the Science Bro

[huerter]

Actually I thought of the Patrick Roy moment because I realized I HAVE seen that before once. He wasn't showboating like Roy but it was under his glove and then raised his glove for no reason. The puck wasn't in his glove when he raised it. But his glove was covering the puck from what I saw and then he raised it (not in a Roy way, the puck was on the ice). Maybe like someone said he didn't know where it was.

You saw wrong. The puck was shot into his pads coming across and then sits behind where the pads intersect. That’s why he doesn’t feel the puck.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

You saw wrong. The puck was shot into his pads coming across and then sits behind where the pads intersect. That’s why he doesn’t feel the puck.

Well, in that case raising his glove was still a dumb move since holding his glove down blocks the Stars from getting to the rebound.

 

[huerter]

Well, in that case raising his glove was still a dumb move since holding his glove down blocks the Stars from getting to the rebound.

Why the glove and not the blocker? And I’m not asking that cause it’s called a blocker. You just seem obsessed with the glove for some reason.

 

[2014nyr]

Wondering if Shesty's soreness/injury is groin or inner thigh related (my guess is he got injured when he got speared by a stick in that area) and its still not 100% - because on the 3-4 uncharacteristic softies, he hasnt sealed the ice the well enough with his pads

i don't think that's it, he had 16 days off for "soreness" and showed no signs of anything lingering while finishing the game before he went out. at this point of the season, especially considering the position and the play of quick they wouldn't have thought twice about holding him another week or 2 if they felt there was any chance of reaggravating it / pushing it now and potentially risk losing him for a couple months.

he started slow last year too and didn't really get into gear until after the new year. i'm not sure that'll be the case this year, but it's not a surprise to see him fighting it a bit after an extended break. also think there's some goaltending nuance that goes into it - still early in the season and teams playing new systems cause shots to come from different places / has defenders in different places and a lot of goalies do need some time getting comfortable. don't think it technically changes anything about stopping a puck so much as it being a mental adjustment feeling comfortable in your crease. we're also not allowing the volume we have in previous years and this whole deal of him not getting shelled every night/going stretches without any real chances is a whole new game.

long story short i don't think there's any big issue. he's still locked in making some fantastic saves, he's just got some mental things to work out getting his confidence back on plays around the net. this is where you'd hope having quick there with him could really help. a guy who's done it all and been through it all is a great voice to have in the room.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Why the glove and not the blocker? And I’m not asking that cause it’s called a blocker. You just seem obsessed with the glove for some reason.

Because it looked to me and based on what Joe said that he had the puck under his glove. I mean if I said arm would that be better?

 

[will1066]

Joe was definitely triggered by the quick whistles for opponents and slow whistles for us.

 

[duhmetreE]

We lost the game. Dallas didn't win

 

[romba]

Because it looked to me and based on what Joe said that he had the puck under his glove. I mean if I said arm would that be better?

Puck hit Shety's chest, dropped straight down and sat between the thighrise part of the pads and his knees, it was just sitting there, Shety wasn't really aware as I think he assumed it was on top of his pads or in his gear, not sure where Joe saw he had it covered.

I disliked the other rebound goal much more where Shesty splits out without his leg flush to the ice so the puck can slowly dribble under it. Shetsy is pretty unorthodox and loves the splits to get across but not sure it was right move in a loose puck situation there.

 

[will1066]

We lost the game. Dallas didn't win

Dallas is still a good team. As the saying goes, the other team also tries. Getting taken to the back of the woodshed isn't bad if they come out of it with lessons learned and new insights for the coaching to staff to shuffle the lineup.

Wheeler does not seem to be the solution for the Kreider-Zib pair. He's unable to push opponents back and create space for them. Maybe as long as Krieider and Zib are together, it's unfixable anyway. I remember at least 2 great chances they generated but couldn't convert. The two on one where Zib shot it into Wedgewood's glove, and the Kreider all-alone chance. No one on the right side can shoot the puck for them other than themselves.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

That a clip of a character in an old TV show titled “Dallas”.
The character’s name is Bobby.
He was killed off.
Year(s) later when the show’s ratings were dropping the producers brought back Bobby and said that he never was dead that all the episodes in between him being dead and his return were a dream.

I remember the show Dallas and the big story of "Who shot J.R?" and Patrick Duffy as Bobby. I wasn't sure if there was more context to @will1066's post, or if there was more too it!

BTW; speaking of Dallas, tomorrow is the 60th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy's assassination. I don't go that far back, but it was a shocking thing and likely changed American society forever.

(I don't want to go further than that; this isn't a political board and it would be preferable to keep it that way).

 

[duhmetreE]

Dallas is still a good team. As the saying goes, the other team also tries. Getting taken to the back of the woodshed isn't bad if they come out of it with lessons learned and new insights for the coaching to staff to shuffle the lineup.

Wheeler does not seem to be the solution for the Kreider-Zib pair. He's unable to push opponents back and create space for them. Maybe as long as Krieider and Zib are together, it's unfixable anyway. I remember at least 2 great chances they generated but couldn't convert. The two on one where Zib shot it into Wedgewood's glove, and the Kreider all-alone chance. No one on the right side can shoot the puck for them other than themselves.

Dallas is a good team but we had some really bad breakdowns, brain dead plays/ unforced errors and shoddy goal tending.

We were gangbusters in the 1st... didn't convert on some plays... stumbled in the 2nd and imploded in the 3rd.

Zibs needs a wake up call. Whether that's separating him from Kreider or taking him off of PP1.

 

[JimmyG89]

You can't go much longer with Bonino-Goodrow as your 3C-4C. If Chytil is really out like this, they need to make a move. They've bought themselves some time with this record, but it's just not going to work like this.

Brodzinski should have made the team, but went to Hartford and is now at 18 points in 13 games. They have the AHL depth to make that move. His speed added with Kakko and Cuylle on the 3rd line would be welcomed.

The second that Adam Fox is back this needs to happen. You won't need Mackey as a 7th D at that point.

 

[hardnosed]

While we were bound to lose again sooner or later, last night was the first game we've been outcoached. Igor clearly had a bad game. Jones and Schneider proved yet again they are a dumpster fire and need sheltered minutes.

Yet after an outstanding first period, a mediocre second, and a brutal third, they were still down 2 goals late with a chance to tie. Challenging the Dallas goal was the wrong call. Pulling the goalie on the PP with 4 minutes left was the wrong call (both times).

Video replay can choke on an entire bag of dicks. I don't care that the calls were right, because when the calls go the other way, they're never made right. As far as I'm concerned the league owes us about 5 BS calls in our favor just to get back to even. In the past week, we've learned that when the whistle doesn't blow and is not intended to blow, but the puck goes in, it's still not a goal...but when the whistle blows before the puck goes in, it's still a goal. You don't have to make a distinct kicking motion for the puck crossing the goal line to not count, the "call on the ice" can be changed from the actual call on the ice before going to replay, and a coach can reverse challenge a no-goal call too apparently. The more leagues drag on, the more I hate video replay in general. Let the refs go back to calling the plays on the ice and if they get it wrong, oh well, at least bad calls will happen both ways with human referees than a bunch of disphits watching a video monitor trying to place their finger on the scale. Again, this is not about last night. This is about 0 for the season, and if anyone wants to go back farther, a probably no higher than 25% success rate overall on these stupid things. The explanations often make literally no sense anyway, so it's not like delaying games for up to 7 minutes at a time has made the on-ice product better. Besides, nothing takes the air out of an electric game atmosphere more than a huge late goal resulting in 5 minutes of hushed silence while the Jeopardy music plays and everyone waits for a decision that will invariably either be wrong, or right for the wrong reason anyway. Kill video replay with fire already.

In the third, I really wanted to see Laviolette ride 10-16-13 more. That line should've been playing every other shift, and should've alternated with 20-17-24 and 50-21-26 with Pitlick subbing in for Wheeler as needed, and Bonino taking faceoffs as needed then going right off. Zibanejad absolutely deserved to be stapled to the bench during the third period last night, though you give him a chance when they get the PP with 4 minutes left. He was soft, consistently passed up good shots and made bad plays in scoring areas, and he was not willing to go into the corner and dig out pucks. He floated in the middle of the offensive zone most of the night looking for "shots" and didn't take them when he got them, and on the rare chance he did either missed the net or hit the goalie in the chest. He's on pace for 10 goals and does not deserve 21 minutes a game right now. There was no reason to put him between 10 and 13 last night and break up what had been a pretty good thing, even if it was just an attempt to "get him going." He needs to ride pine for a game, sulk, then immediately be given an opportunity tomorrow...not potentially drag down the best NYR 5 on 5 line when they need a tying goal.

Would also rather see Goodrow with Kakko and Cuylle. Give that line a little more snarl and maybe some of it will rub off on Kakko. It's telling that even for Kakko's goal, it came on an attempted pass/stickhandle in a shooting situation when the D spiked the puck into his own net. At this point I'd also throw Vesey on with 20 and 93 and just call that line the third line at even strength.

Coming back with Jones and Schneider after a TV timeout was inexcusable. That pair has also got to be better about changing opportunistically. They consistently don't change after 30 seconds during second periods, and get pinned in their own end for long shifts. No other pair consistently does this. It's twice a game, every game with those two. I still hold that Zac Jones is not an NHL defenseman, and Fox can't get back soon enough. I just hope that this can at least be a showcase so we can get something valuable back for the second coming of Matt Gilroy/Thomas Pock/Mike Mottau.

It was bound to happen sooner or later, but even as bad as Igor was this game was winnable. Hopefully Laviolette is able to look at some of what he did critically because there were plenty of takeaways re: coaching last night. I've been largely uncritical of what Lav and the staff have done thus far, because most of it has made sense, but last night definitely needs a look in the mirror on the part of the coaching staff, especially some of the decisions in the third period.

What killed me was the defense pairs usage at the start of the 3rd. Start with 8/79. They play 30 seconds. We switch to 55/56 for 10 freaking seconds. Face off in our end with more than 19 minutes on the clock. And what do we do, we put out 4/6 for the faceoff in our end. Goal and 2-2 and the game changes just like that. Why did we do that. Absolutely stupid.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

What killed me was the defense pairs usage at the start of the 3rd. Start with 8/79. They play 30 seconds. We switch to 55/56 for 10 freaking seconds. Face off in our end with more than 19 minutes on the clock. And what do we do, we put out 4/6 for the faceoff in our end. Goal and 2-2 and the game changes just like that. Why did we do that. Absolutely stupid.

It was a team loss, coach included. Some dumb decisions last night.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

It’s early but you can see a pattern here.

 

[huerter]

It’s early but you can see a pattern here. View attachment 771305

It would have been impossible for last year to match the previous year and this year is too early to suggest anything so not a lot to glean from those fancy stats.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s early but you can see a pattern here. View attachment 771305

Those don't match NHL.com numbers which says 0.916 last year.

As much as I got on him though, he has time to improve this year. I still don't see him as consistent as Lundqvist who had 1 or 2 poor months every year of his career. Igor just rarely has the good stretches Hank had though. BUT most of Hank's seasons were lower scoring.

 

[Brother Mouzone]

Ls will happen , Stars are a good team ....Team could not match the energy in the 3rd Igor let in some stinkers and Rangers did not cash in on some glorious chances .Game was there for the taking .

 

[chosen]

I didn't forsee Igors career falling apart, but here we are.

Falling apart?

 

[JCProdigy]

Kreider and Zibanejad, both them need to score in big situations, because that's what they're paid to do. People can talk all day long about how they don't let in goals against and all their other great underlying stuff. Richard Nash was a great defensive forward when he couldn't find the back of the net, too, yet history does not focus on his defense.

To me, the argument is this: Without that line scoring, you really are putting all the pressure on the Panarin-Trochek-Laf line (and PP) to score. That can lead to tighter grips on the sticks, taking dumb chances, etc. Conversely, you are making it much easier on the opposition to set their defensive matchups to concentrate solely on Panarin's line as well as giving them another breather in the shift rotation.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Are there some underlying issues? Yes

Is Dallas a really good team? Yes

Is Igor gonna get better? Yes

Is Mika gonna shave his head?

It is what it is and move on and take advantage of a washed up Penguins team tomorrow

 

[TriFF51]

Falling apart?

Just being sarcastic. But I do miss Vezina Igor.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Dallas is a good team but we had some really bad breakdowns, brain dead plays/ unforced errors and shoddy goal tending.

We were gangbusters in the 1st... didn't convert on some plays... stumbled in the 2nd and imploded in the 3rd.

Zibs needs a wake up call. Whether that's separating him from Kreider or taking him off of PP1.

agreed. We generated a lot of offense, but couldn't convert and then made a series of major blunders.


Dallas didn't impress me much.

Usually when we lose its because of piss poor effort, that wasn't really the case here.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s early but you can see a pattern here. View attachment 771305

I love poorly used data.

If you want an accurate read of ANYTHING using early season data, you use the first 10 games played of every season, not the first 10 games of this year and then the full seasons of the years prior.

FWIW his SV% through the first 10 games of last year was .904 and that didn't include a 16 day break in the middle.

 

[Larrybiv]

Because I live out of market, I occasionally watch pre-game from the opposing team. Caught Stars pre-game and they were all about HOW the Stars blew their last game vs Avalanche., They said; "Now, we will find out a lot about how the Stars respond to that loss".
OUR Rangers lost a similar type game the next evening. The Post are basically saying the same thing with the headline: "We are about to find out a lot more about the Rangers".