Confirmed with Link: Oilers hire Archie Henderson/Tyler Wright as Directors of Pro/Amateur Scouting
- Thread starter AddyTheWrath
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Matti Virmanen
Alexander Naurov
Pretty sure one is in Finland and one is in Russia.
But, f*** Katz am I right?
Every other team lists them as 'European Scout'. So, pardon my mistake.
We still have the smallest listed scouting staff in the league, with by far the smallest Amateur scouting dept, if those 2 guys listed as Amateur Scouts are actually scouting Europe.
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Del Preston
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- Mar 8, 2013
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Amateur scouts Pelle Eklund and Brandon Jay are no longer listed on the Oilers' scouting page. Eklund had been with the team for nine years, Jay for two.
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TheNumber4
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Which regions did they cover? Knowing that, we might be able to figure out why they were fired. Actually scratched that, we already know why no scouts have uncovered sh*t for us in forever.
McDNicks17
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Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
The problem is some people are splitting hairs on terminology of scouting.
The oilers do have pro scouts here in europe.
You can not look at european scouting the same way you look at north american scouting.
In north America you have clear divisions between pro and amateur. Those lines are blurred here
Jumptheshark
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Ritchie Valens
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That's a good question.,
Did Oilers get it right with hugely, massively, majorly significant move: replacing Bob Green with Tyler Wright?
No mention of him being re-assigned within the org or in the case of the Oilers, promoted; however at the very end of the article it's suggested he would do or be better with the pro-side of scouting, where the Oilers have sucked.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Green was Behind the Reinhart deal. I can not get over the fact none of the oilers scouts scouted him after he left the oil kings. Green pushed hard for him
nuck
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Any you know this how? Only the pro scouts would have looked at any of the AHL guys and Reinhart's season was over long before he became the subject of interest for Chiarelli. The positive remarks followed the trade, they didn't precede it. What was he supposed to say?, "my new boss is kind of sticking his neck out on this one, slight chance it works out". The entire Oilers organization watched the Oil Kings win league championships and a Memorial Cup and they would have heavily scouted him for the 2012 draft. Everyone had an opinion on him, so why does his former junior GM become the instigator of the deal? The deal starts with Chia and full input from MacT, Lowe and whoever else from upper management had his ear. All above Greens pay grade. Amateur scouts don't make pro trades.
Slats432
Registered User
Green was the former Oil Kings GM and rubber stamped that debacle.
Before the 2012 draft, Oilers scouts couldn’t decide among three Western Hockey League defencemen, including Reinhart, Moose Jaw Warriors’ swift puck-mover Morgan Rielly and silky smooth Ryan Murray from Everett Silvertips. When they couldn’t break the deadlock, they opted for Nail Yakupov, the best forward on the board.
“Griffin’s a winner, with elite hockey sense. … He’s a defenceman and we need those,” said Bob Green, the former Oil Kings general manager who is now the Oilers’ head of player development. “He was the captain on our Memorial Cup winning team and we might have gotten there the year before (in 2013) if he hadn’t been hurt against Portland.
“Did he struggle in the American (Hockey) League this year? Yeah, I guess he did, but I believe in him,” Green added. “He’s a horse. To me, he’s the complete package as a defenceman, but he’s only 20 (actually 21).”
Oilers trade draft picks in surprise move to NY Islanders for Griffin Reinhart
CantHaveTkachev
Legends
this quote is more damning IMO:
the fact they thought about taking Reinhart #1 is frightning
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
I have it at 100% that no Oiler scout saw Reinhart play in the AHL and that Green pushed Reinhart at Chiarelli when the topic of trading for a D came up.
Green was a HUGE Reinhart supporter
snipes
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Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
https://www.therinkratdoes.com/home/the-bob-green-screw-up
a guy I used to work with was part of the hospitality team in Bridgeport. He looked after the scouts and kept track of who came and how often.
There was not a big spread--but different scouts liked different things. Most teams do something for scouts when they are in their arena. This is done for several reasons
1) Reciprocal hospitality--
2) When teams try to scoop a scout--the scout may think how he was treated by the team when he was the enemy
Aceboogie
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Ill agree that a lot of hirings in the business world are made from past relationships. But I will say this, I have worked in a consulting role for small and medium sized businesses (and assisted on projects for public companies)- and I can tell you that the most successful hirings DONT come from nepotism. The best come from merit-based hirings either from within an organization, or an outside hire. Nepotism hirings happen all the time, but those hirings have a higher chance of not working out
I think people have every reason to dislike these hirings. It is again just recycling another teams garbage. There is a reason that other teams are not running to hire these guys to head their scouting department or promote them. Holland hired these guys and liked them for a reason (whether justified or not), so ofcourse when he goes to hire scouts, hell hire the ones he likes. It again just goes to show these recycled GMs will always fail to adapt and improve, and instead revert to who/what they are comfortable with
On a similar note: the DRW made a twitter post announcing these guys leaving, and the overwhelming consensus were DRW fans so glad to see these guys gone because they were doing such a bad job. They said these guys overvalued size over speed and skill and led to a fair amount of poor picks
Aceboogie
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Doesnt justify anything. Just because a large majority of the NHL falls victim to the same follies doesnt mean we should be ok when we do it as well.
The NHL (by far) has the most inbreeding of all the major sports. This leads to the same old groupthink. Its the organizations that bring in "outside" hires with a different perspective that tend to reap some competitive advantages
nuck
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A few of your points have been well discussed in earlier threads. Chiarelli had just become GM of the worst team in the league. Why would anyone think he would be greatly influenced by anything an amateur scouting director who had never seen Reinhart as a pro had to say, never mind letting him "rubber stamp" a trade involving a #1 pick? He had known Green and the existing Oilers team for 2 months, how much would he trust any of them? And why would Green risk sticking his neck out with a new boss championing such a deal when that's not his job? He's paid to scout and all the deal did for him was eliminate the top 2 picks he had to work with after the slam dunk #1.
It just seems like people are making way too much of Green the Oil King. Your own bolded comment shows the organization had at least considered Reinhart prior to winning the 2012 lottery and this was years before Green was hired by the Oilers. You know who was there in 2012 were MacTavish, Lowe and , Sutter, and they would have a lot more influence on a new GM than someone 3 steps below him on the food chain. BG is miles removed from those decision making processes.
As far as Greens post trade comments, these were post trade. He is supposed to say positive things about a player that the club has already acquired. The only reason you pump a young guy's tires is help his confidence, not as some kind of an admission that he was your get. Okay maybe sucking up to the new GM to support his "wise" choice for job security is a reason too. I do believe he said positive things about Reinhart's potential before the deal but I don't think there is any evidence he was involved in engineering the deal. I don't know how much Chia was pressured to make the deal but I doubt it hinged on a former Junior GM of the player. In the words of Hannibal Lector "you covet what you see every day" and the Oilers brass saw every playoff game the Reinhart and his Oil Kings played.
nuck
Schrodingers Cat
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Do you have a link for the bolded? You are kind of talking about a tadpole pushing around a bullfrog. We all know Chia is kind of a bonehead but are you suggesting Green was his primary due diligence? I don't think he had a history of subordinates running his show, but I don't know that for certain. BTW I believe you that he wasn't scouted by the Oil, I just don't think Green was who talked him into it.
Senor Catface
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That super smart different perspective exists in Phoenix where last year they traded away a 72 point player in Domi and a 51 point in 58 game guy in Strome.
Aerrol
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To be fair, Phoenix also has a bunch of other barriers including (up until recently) questionable ownership who was unwilling to spend to cap, nevermind on the proper hockey ops staff to properly implement those outside perspectives.
But still, Chayka was following a lot of textbook moves people on HF endlessly argued was the smart play - often myself included - and it sure hasn't panned out yet. We'll see I guess.
Bangers
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guymez
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Good article on Henderson and his philosophy on Pro scouting.
I found this especially interesting.....
Changing the Pro Scouting Landscape
Signing players to a one year deal virtually ensures that you will be getting the best out of that player. So in this case thats 5 players that are very hungry.
So not only does it give the team an option next season it provides the players with an opportunity to play for their next contract which the team benefits immediately.
Smart.
I found this especially interesting.....
Changing the Pro Scouting Landscape
Signing players to a one year deal virtually ensures that you will be getting the best out of that player. So in this case thats 5 players that are very hungry.
So not only does it give the team an option next season it provides the players with an opportunity to play for their next contract which the team benefits immediately.
Smart.
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Barrsy
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- May 14, 2017
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You dont think Bob Green was a huuuuge voice in that obscene trade? What a joke.
Bob Green was an embarrassment. He should have lost his job ages ago. Thank god his filth is gone from the Oilers.
