Speculation: Offseason Thread Pt IV

[eoin92]

Moar trades = better team. It’s a proven fact.

Can’t argue with science.

 

[Lame Lambert]

The usual Leddy/Boychuk response...the one day of big moves we have made leading up to a season in 10 years. And yes the second round is a significant improvement, you are right. So then tell me, is the goal now to to take the next toward cup contention when we are maybe 2-3 players away from that level, or to be complacent and content with that, do nothing and then regress like we did EVERY SINGLE time after a positive season under Garth Snow. I had hoped that had changed.

Both of those trades took place at the beginning of training camp. If Lou makes a good acquisition in the remaining 3 months of the off season will you delete your account?

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Both of those trades took place at the beginning of training camp. If Lou makes a good acquisition in the remaining 3 months of the off season will you delete your account?

So because Lou does his job (for the first time in 14 months), I should delete my account? HUH??!!!! If he does nothing and says the same crap he said at the deadline last year, will you delete yours?

 

[MJF]

The usual Leddy/Boychuk response...the one day of big moves we have made leading up to a season in 10 years. And yes the second round is a significant improvement, you are right. So then tell me, is the goal now to to take the next toward cup contention when we are maybe 2-3 players away from that level, or to be complacent and content with that, do nothing and then regress like we did EVERY SINGLE time after a positive season under Garth Snow. I had hoped that had changed.

We need high end talent, not to sign another 20 goal scorer and say “well he’s better than Leo so we’re a better team today”. Lou has been going after high end talent and he’s found that nobody will take our money. That leaves us to Plan B-draft well and promote from within, and resign our Big 3 RFA’s next summer. And it also means more patience from the fans, because Plan B has no instant gratification.

Stupid me being patient. What am I thinking of?

 

[xECK29x]

So answer the question, tell me what he is doing. He will not/cannot sign any free agents (in the case of the top ones, out of his control, I agree), he does not make any trades and he will not do offer sheets, so please directly answer this question: with PLAYER PERSONNEL, what exactly is he doing in the last 14 months to make this team a contender?

Stop it, you made your point.

 

[MJF]

So answer the question, tell me what he is doing. He will not/cannot sign any free agents (in the case of the top ones, out of his control, I agree), he does not make any trades and he will not do offer sheets, so please directly answer this question: with PLAYER PERSONNEL, what exactly is he doing in the last 14 months to make this team a contender?

From another post I replied to.

We need high end talent, not to sign another 20 goal scorer and say “well he’s better than Leo so we’re a better team today”. Lou has been going after high end talent and he’s found that nobody will take our money. That leaves us to Plan B-draft well and promote from within, and resign our Big 3 RFA’s next summer. And it also means more patience from the fans, because Plan B has no instant gratification.

 

[Lame Lambert]

So because Lou does his job (for the first time in 14 months), I should delete my account? HUH??!!!! If he does nothing and says the same crap he said at the deadline last year, will you delete yours?

Not doing his job for 14 months? So bringing the team from the 70 point basement to 103 points wasn’t doing his job?

I’m not defending him doing nothing. I’m pointing out that he still has 3 months to improve the team, which you keep conveniently leaving out in your unhinged rants.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

We need high end talent, not to sign another 20 goal scorer and say “well he’s better than Leo so we’re a better team today”. Lou has been going after high end talent and he’s found that nobody will take our money. That leaves us to Plan B-draft well and promote from within, and resign our Big 3 RFA’s next summer. And it also means more patience from the fans, because Plan B has no instant gratification.

Stupid me being patient. What am I thinking of?

So if you cannot get "high end talent" you do not think "another 20 goal scorer" as you put it (ex. Dzingel, Ferland, etc.) would not make the team better than having Tom Kuhnhackl in a top 6 role? So if you cannot get the top UFA on the market, you just give up and say oh I guess I dont need to do anything else? And how much patience do we need to have? Until Barzal becomes a FA and has spent his career playing with Dal Colle and Kuhnhackl and he decides to leave like Tavares? Then will you tell us more about drafting well and promoting from within? When does it end?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Who said anything about him being able to control where Panarin signs? Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think I have seen a single post bashing Lou as a failure for not getting Panarin. Where he does deserve bashing for his failure is his lack of any kind of move that he DOES have control over, trades, offer sheet, etc. In 14 months on the job, he has made one trade, bringing back Matt Martin for an ECHLer. I want you to look around the league and see how many trades have been made in the last 14 months, actually how many have been made in the last 2 months for that matter. You are telling me he could not have made ONE, I mean a SINGLE trade to upgrade the team in 14 months with all of the other moves we have seen around the league? You have to give to get. We cannot expect to keep EVERY SINGLE PROSPECT AND DRAFT PICK, and ever upgrade the team to take that final step from second round playoff team to cup contenders. That is on him to make that happen. Again, before the inevitable responses come in, I am not saying trading Dobson or Wahlstrom or Sorokin, but the goal is to win the cup, not to stockpile prospects and draft picks for this future that never seems to come for this team. And if he cannot make any trades, then there are plenty of players he could offer sheet, Laine, Rantanen, Point and more. All of these players would be MONUMENTAL upgrades on our current top 6. I DONT CARE ABOUT FIRST ROUND PICKS ANYMORE. If he is unwilling to do any of these things: trade or give offer sheets, then please tell me what exactly he is doing to upgrade the team?

I have difficulty reading your posts anymore to be honest. I find the whining insufferable.

EVERYBODY WANTED SOME MOVES! We just don’t go crying about it and rather like to talk about what can be done or what we potentially missed out on.

You complained this past season every chance you got which means that you aren’t happy with much regarding this team.

Go give up four firsts for Marner or Dobson + for Stone. I am so happy you are not running this team.

 

[Lame Lambert]

We need high end talent, not to sign another 20 goal scorer and say “well he’s better than Leo so we’re a better team today”. Lou has been going after high end talent and he’s found that nobody will take our money. That leaves us to Plan B-draft well and promote from within, and resign our Big 3 RFA’s next summer. And it also means more patience from the fans, because Plan B has no instant gratification.

Stupid me being patient. What am I thinking of?

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

I have difficulty reading your posts anymore to be honest. I find the whining insufferable.

EVERYBODY WANTED SOME MOVES! We just don’t go crying about it and rather like to talk about what can be done or what we potentially missed out on.

You complained this past season every chance you got which means that you aren’t happy with much regarding this team.

Go give up four firsts for Marner or Dobson + for Stone. I am so happy you are not running this team.

This is yet another total fallacy. People make it sound like I and others were on here after 5 game winning streaks saying god this team sucks. I was happy as anybody for most of the season. I had two main complaints last season. First, was Trotz separating Barzal and Eberle...and clearly I was right about that. Look what happened when they were put back together late in the season and now Eberle was re-signed. Second was at the trade deadline, when it is indisputable that Lou totally and inexplicably failed to do his job. This was a team in first place for months and in the mix for being in the top 3 teams in the league point wise and he did ZERO to address the one main weakness the team had. It was without question a failure. But once the playoffs began I was at the games and rooting the team on as hard as anybody. You can still be a fan and realize that your GM is not doing his job. A decade under Garth Snow should have taught all of you that.

 

[CBG]

And even if we were to rid ourselves of the stench of the last 30 years it wouldn't matter as far as coverage in the NY media is concerned. It's hockey. In this town hockey is a nuisance to the radio shows and the newspapers.

MJF , I am not so sure of that, I mean I know this is different times and I am not sure how old you are but when the Islanders were in their glory days in the early 80's they dominated the back pages and even losers like Mike Lupica were sucking on Bossys jock , he could not write enough articles about the team along with others. Its going to take a lot more than 1 good playoff run to get good press and as I said earlier FREE AGENTS. Just my opinion

 

[MJF]

So if you cannot get "high end talent" you do not think "another 20 goal scorer" as you put it (ex. Dzingel, Ferland, etc.) would not make the team better than having Tom Kuhnhackl in a top 6 role? So if you cannot get the top UFA on the market, you just give up and say oh I guess I dont need to do anything else? And how much patience do we need to have? Until Barzal becomes a FA and has spent his career playing with Dal Colle and Kuhnhackl and he decides to leave like Tavares? Then will you tell us more about drafting well and promoting from within? When does it end?

Who is putting Kuhnhackl in a top 6 role? Cut the crap.

Is it “giving up” if Wahlstrom or Koivula make the team this year? Is it giving up if Leddy gets traded for a triggerman in September and Aho replaces him.

Sorry you can’t spot the forest for the trees but this is the way things are likely to go for a few more years.

 

[Phil120362]

The Devs were the old Rockies correct? They got here in what? '88? They won their 1st cup in '95,it does take time,and you gotta stay away from Ladd type contracts,if you build it they will come....if you build it right you will win...

 

[MJF]

The Devs were the old Rockies correct? They got here in what? '88? They won their 1st cup in '95,it does take time,and you gotta stay away from Ladd type contracts,if you build it they will come....if you build it right you will win...

True. The salary cap is an added element. Lou has unsuccessfully tried to throw money at our problems to fix them. That’s always the easiest way to get the players you need.

 

[MJF]

MJF , I am not so sure of that, I mean I know this is different times and I am not sure how old you are but when the Islanders were in their glory days in the early 80's they dominated the back pages and even losers like Mike Lupica were sucking on Bossys jock , he could not write enough articles about the team along with others. Its going to take a lot more than 1 good playoff run to get good press and as I said earlier FREE AGENTS. Just my opinion

I was a high school senior in 1981 so i remember those days vividly. I’m in agreement with some of what you said. My stance here has always been it’s going to take more than 1 good year to make us attractive. But in talking about whether talk radio types will put pressure on is like Mike and the Mad Dog did to the Mets and shamed them into getting Mike Piazza, it won’t happen in this town. The amount of coverage the local mainstream outlets gives to hockey is dictated by the local and national ratings. Hockey still barely moves the needle here so the hosts are told not to devote much time to it. Also doesn’t help hockey that most of the hosts are casual hockey fans at best.

So it’s basically “nobody cares about hockey Boomer”.

 

[periferal]

Moar trades = better team. It’s a proven fact.

Sarcasm noted and agreed with. Anyone around here remember the last GM who kept making trade after trade...?

 

[periferal]

So answer the question, tell me what he is doing. He will not/cannot sign any free agents (in the case of the top ones, out of his control, I agree), he does not make any trades and he will not do offer sheets, so please directly answer this question: with PLAYER PERSONNEL, what exactly is he doing in the last 14 months to make this team a contender?

Unlike other posters here who either:

1. Haven't figured you out
2. Want to argue with you regardless

...I will not be one of them.

I know your game...To complain about anything and everything to matter what. You've agreed with a few of my posts over the past few months, and I soon noticed a pattern...All the ones you "liked" were ones where I was complaining.

If we ever won the Cup you'd complain that it didn't look shiny enough.

Unless your goal is to always be unhappy, then I'll assume you wouldn't trade our current position with that of 2 years ago. Please don't reply to this trying to argue that you would. If you really believe that I don't want to hear about it and if you just want to argue I don't take part.

Anyway I hope others catch on and let you stew in your owner cesspool of, "Never good enough." It's time to grow and evolve man. You're better than these posts.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Hiller is going to be a huge factor here, just look at the PP% of the teams he has coached on, one of the best PP coaches in the league.

He's a good hire but I'm not expecting miracles. He had more to work with in those other places. The ball is as much in Lou's court as it is Hilller's IMO.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Unlike other posters here who either:

1. Haven't figured you out
2. Want to argue with you regardless

...I will not be one of them.

I know your game...To complain about anything and everything to matter what. You've agreed with a few of my posts over the past few months, and I soon noticed a pattern...All the ones you "liked" were ones where I was complaining.

If we ever won the Cup you'd complain that it didn't look shiny enough.

Unless your goal is to always be unhappy, then I'll assume you wouldn't trade our current position with that of 2 years ago. Please don't reply to this trying to argue that you would. If you really believe that I don't want to hear about it and if you just want to argue I don't take part.

Anyway I hope others catch on and let you stew in your owner cesspool of, "Never good enough." It's time to grow and evolve man. You're better than these posts.

You know a lot of what you wrote in that post is not true. I outlined in my previous post what I "complained" about last year. I believe the things I "complain" about are justified, but outside of that I support this team as much as anybody. I can guarantee you I attend and probably even watch more games than many of the people on here who question me as a fan. As far as you specifically go, the funny thing is I know you agree with many of my points, honestly probably most of them, based on other things I see you write. You just like to take this high horse righteous approach to distance yourself from me because it will make you look like the less radical "complainer."

 

[periferal]

You know a lot of what you wrote in that post is not true. I outlined in my previous post what I "complained" about last year. I believe the things I "complain" about are justified, but outside of that I support this team as much as anybody. I can guarantee you I attend and probably even watch more games than many of the people on here who question me as a fan. As far as you specifically go, the funny thing is I know you agree with many of my points, honestly probably most of them, based on other things I see you write. You just like to take this high horse righteous approach to distance yourself from me because it will make you look like the less radical "complainer."

Whether or not I agree with some/any/most of your points is not the issue here. The issue is...You are never happy with anything the Isles do and will color everything this new ownership/management team does with that negative lens is simply biased at best.

I was as passionately over the top about wang/snow and the ineptitude of that entire era. And despite Lou being far from perfect, any objective fan should be mostly pleased with what has gone on the last season, and direction this franchise is heading in. To take a "nothing is good enough" stance as you do now given where this franchise was about just 16 months ago is just simply to have no perspective or a need to argue.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Whether or not I agree with some/any/most of your points is not the issue here. The issue is...You are never happy with anything the Isles do and will color everything this new ownership/management team does with that negative lens is simply biased at best.

I was as passionately over the top about wang/snow and the ineptitude of that entire era. And despite Lou being far from perfect, any objective fan should be mostly pleased with what has gone on the last season, and direction this franchise is heading in. To take a "nothing is good enough" stance as you do now given where this franchise was about just 16 months ago is just simply to have no perspective or a need to argue.

I guess that is fair for the most part. I do stand by after a successful season, it is up to the GM to find whatever way necessary to take the next step, not be complacent and content with what was accomplished last year.

 

[PK Cronin]

Who said anything about him being able to control where Panarin signs? Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think I have seen a single post bashing Lou as a failure for not getting Panarin. Where he does deserve bashing for his failure is his lack of any kind of move that he DOES have control over, trades, offer sheet, etc. In 14 months on the job, he has made one trade, bringing back Matt Martin for an ECHLer.

Did that one trade help the team? I'd say yes.

I want you to look around the league and see how many trades have been made in the last 14 months, actually how many have been made in the last 2 months for that matter. You are telling me he could not have made ONE, I mean a SINGLE trade to upgrade the team in 14 months with all of the other moves we have seen around the league? You have to give to get. We cannot expect to keep EVERY SINGLE PROSPECT AND DRAFT PICK, and ever upgrade the team to take that final step from second round playoff team to cup contenders. That is on him to make that happen. Again, before the inevitable responses come in, I am not saying trading Dobson or Wahlstrom or Sorokin, but the goal is to win the cup, not to stockpile prospects and draft picks for this future that never seems to come for this team.

Stop focusing on what other trades are or aren't happening. Most of them don't mean anything to our team and are insignificant. Do I care that de Haan was traded to Chicago? In what way could that trade have anything to do with the Islanders? It doesn't, so stop looking at it. If there's something that really doesn't make sense, like Seth Jones gets traded for someone worse than Komarov, the gripe is fine. Simply stating that other GM's are making moves so Lamoriello has to, should be, or isn't doing anything is just nonsense.

And if he cannot make any trades, then there are plenty of players he could offer sheet, Laine, Rantanen, Point and more. All of these players would be MONUMENTAL upgrades on our current top 6. I DONT CARE ABOUT FIRST ROUND PICKS ANYMORE. If he is unwilling to do any of these things: trade or give offer sheets, then please tell me what exactly he is doing to upgrade the team?

Giving up that many first round picks is really risky. It reduces the amount of ammunition he has to make other moves in the future. Let's say hypothetically we get Marner to sign an offer. Now the team is going to max out the roster, unload four first round picks, and then have what to improve the roster with for the remaining years? Sure the team got better for this season, but what about the subsequent years. If your objective is for the team to continually improve upon itself, then making short sided moves that help now isn't necessarily the way to go.

Since Lamoriello has taken over he's upgraded our goaltending, our coaching staff, our scouting staff, our minor league team, and the professionalism around the team. He upgraded the team without bringing in top tier talent.

The goal is to win the cup not get to the second round of the playoffs once every five years. Once you become a playoff team, the idea is to upgrade. That is what every team around the league tries to do...except this one, which has not made a trade or addition to the team in a full year.

Well, you're being unfair here in your characterization of the job he's done. If after a team makes the playoffs you're supposed to upgrade, why are you counting the first full year? That team on paper and the years prior to Lamoriello's involvement wasn't a playoff team. So he did make an improvement by just getting to the playoffs, and it was the best season the team has had in 30 years. So if you want to complain about his lack of upgrades to a playoff team, you're really only talking about the lack of moves within the past couple months since the season has ended.

That said, the idea is to improve the team, yes. You don't just want to improve it for one year if your team isn't built to be a contender though. Setting yourself up for long term failure by name making smart moves will backfire and lead to the very thing you're complaining about, making the playoffs every so often instead of actually competing for the cup.

The usual Leddy/Boychuk response...the one day of big moves we have made leading up to a season in 10 years. (Of course nobody ever mentions these are the two most frequently mentioned players by these same posters that should now be traded away, you can only laugh). And yes the second round is a significant improvement, you are right. So then tell me, is the goal now to to take the next toward cup contention when we are maybe 2-3 players away from that level, or to be complacent and content with that, do nothing and then regress like we did EVERY SINGLE time after a positive season under Garth Snow. I had hoped that had changed.

Nobody says that those two players can't play, they want them traded for other reasons. Leddy, because he has value around the league and as you said, you have to give to get. Boychuk is spoken about because of his age and the style he plays, so it's known he won't be as good in the remaining years of his contract. They both were important additions to the roster at the team, but have been made more expendable by the additions and growth of other players, which is what good teams hope to have happen.

If we're two or three players away from cup contention you can't throw all your eggs into a single season basket and hope it works. As I've mentioned previously, what if he rolls with the same team until the deadline or middle of the season and then makes a splash? We know this team as currently constructed can make the playoffs.

So answer the question, tell me what he is doing. He will not/cannot sign any free agents (in the case of the top ones, out of his control, I agree), he does not make any trades and he will not do offer sheets, so please directly answer this question: with PLAYER PERSONNEL, what exactly is he doing in the last 14 months to make this team a contender?

Why do we need to exclude all of the areas other than personnel to show how he improved the team? He brought in a solid bottom 6, fixed our goaltending, and brought in guys who can PK properly.

So if you cannot get "high end talent" you do not think "another 20 goal scorer" as you put it (ex. Dzingel, Ferland, etc.) would not make the team better than having Tom Kuhnhackl in a top 6 role? So if you cannot get the top UFA on the market, you just give up and say oh I guess I dont need to do anything else? And how much patience do we need to have? Until Barzal becomes a FA and has spent his career playing with Dal Colle and Kuhnhackl and he decides to leave like Tavares? Then will you tell us more about drafting well and promoting from within? When does it end?

Spending on another 20 goal scorer limits the ability to add make or break talent in the future. Why aren't you understanding that? It's the main reason a lot of people didn't want Lee, Nelson, and Eberle re-signed as a trio. It locks up a lot of money on complimentary pieces. Your suggestion is to lock up more of those types of pieces because it's better than the current roster. You'll never be a real contender if you do that.

Nobody wants Kuhnhackl in a top 6 role, and if he is there at the start of the year I'll be annoyed. You can afford to give Lamoriello, who led this team to it's most successful season in 30 years, more than a single year to make substantial improvements. If this team ends up going to the conference final next season with the current roster in place to start the season, am I going to have to sit through another summer of your bitching and moaning because Lamoriello didn't do anything for two whole years?

 

[PK Cronin]

This is yet another total fallacy. People make it sound like I and others were on here after 5 game winning streaks saying god this team sucks. I was happy as anybody for most of the season.

No, you really weren't. You complained every game no matter what. In fact, you were complaining in games the team was winning down the stretch. There's a reason the entire board was asking for you to "give it to use straight" no matter the outcome of a game.

I had two main complaints last season. First, was Trotz separating Barzal and Eberle...and clearly I was right about that. Look what happened when they were put back together late in the season and now Eberle was re-signed.

Well, you're wrong. They weren't particularly good in the beginning of the year together and Trotz separated them in order to teach them and focus on the system first. They worked well later on because of that separation and attention to the system.

Second was at the trade deadline, when it is indisputable that Lou totally and inexplicably failed to do his job. This was a team in first place for months and in the mix for being in the top 3 teams in the league point wise and he did ZERO to address the one main weakness the team had. It was without question a failure. But once the playoffs began I was at the games and rooting the team on as hard as anybody. You can still be a fan and realize that your GM is not doing his job. A decade under Garth Snow should have taught all of you that.

You want moves to just say moves were made. If he traded Dobson away you'd be complaining about that.

 

[Chardo]

I guess that is fair for the most part. I do stand by after a successful season, it is up to the GM to find whatever way necessary to take the next step, not be complacent and content with what was accomplished last year.

You're assuming Lou is complacent and content. That's most certainly not the case. He addressed the far and away biggest weakness by hiring the best PP coach in the league. Then he reportedly offered the second biggest contract in league history to the top free agent available. Doesn't look complacent to me. Forgive him if he's judicious with valuation and negotiation before trading picks and prospects for big names.