Speculation: Offseason Thread #14: Now With Even Less Title Ideas (Not the Kreider Thread Tho)

[GAGLine]

Only if it's a netting a great return, which I don't see considering Nash's value is low right now. A bounce back season (or even 30-40 games) changes that, but I'm not sure I see moving him just to move him while his value is low if we get Vesey.

It's not like Vesey breaks the bank.

Why not have a stacked, deep forward lineup?

Kreider Stepan Nash
Miller Zibanejad Zuccarello
Vesey Hayes Buchnevich
Grabner Jooris Fast
Hrivik

Lindberg on IR

That's a great lineup. There's no pressing cap need to move Nash. I'm of the opinion that Vesey or not, we keep Nash until he either ups his value and can net a big return, or he can actually be the 3rd or 4th offensive weapon and help us contend before his contract expires, or both.

I think we could get a good return for Nash if we retain money. If we are going to give Vesey top 6 minutes (assuming we sign him), something has to give.

 

[NYR Viper]

I agree with RB. The Rangers make a lot of sense AND they have the cap space. Looking back, which season did the Rangers begin with this type of cap space? I can't remember one. The Rangers have a lot of guys with ties to Vesey. Sign him, move another forward. Nash makes sense with retained money.

 

[RGY]

I think we could get a good return for Nash if we retain money. If we are going to give Vesey top 6 minutes (assuming we sign him), something has to give.

Move Nash to the 3rd line with Hayes and Buchnevich. Let Vesey mix into the top 6.

 

[silverfish]

Never really thought that the Rangers would be one of the teams in on Vesey. Always assumed that with Eichel in Buffalo + trading for him, that it was a lock. Knowing what we know now about this situation, I guess the Rangers may make a little bit of sense. Love that having Hayes can only help here. Amazing that it's between us and the Hawks, and Hayes may be the x-factor. Don't know how it will play out, but I guess options are never a bad thing. At worst, I'd imagine there's a plan B to all of this. Like to imagine that this gets resolved sooner rather than later after August 15th.

If you quote this post or see the white text, go back and take note of the first letter of each sentence.

 

[SA16]

Never really thought that the Rangers would be one of the teams in on Vesey. Always assumed that with Eichel in Buffalo + trading for him, that it was a lock. Knowing what we know now about this situation, I guess the Rangers may make a little bit of sense. Love that having Hayes can only help here. Amazing that it's between us and the Hawks, and Hayes may be the x-factor. Don't know how it will play out, but I guess options are never a bad thing. At worst, I'd imagine there's a plan B to all of this. Like to imagine that this gets resolved sooner rather than later after August 15th.

I think it could make sense for him to come here. See the thing is some people like to play in a major market near home even if it might not seem like the best fit. What other teams can offer him in terms of role and roster position the Rangers can counter with the NYC lifestyle and tradition. You would think if that's something he values then us, along with Chicago, would be in pretty good shape to land him. Did you really think he was going to sign with Buffalo right away just because they traded for his rights? There really wasn't much of an incentive for him to sign without at least taking a look at free agency and seeing what other teams have to offer.


If you quote this post or see the white text, go back and take note of the first word of each sentence.

 

[silverfish]

min.

35 minutes 'til Mr. Robot, so I can't watch another episode of Sons of Anarchy. My roommates are watching baseball. No one is talking to me in the Advanced Stats Thread (I blame you for that )

I NEED TO KILL TIME SOMEHOW JUST LET ME HAVE THIS PLEASE.

 

[SA16]

35 minutes 'til Mr. Robot, so I can't watch another episode of Sons of Anarchy. My roommates are watching baseball. No one is talking to me in the Advanced Stats Thread (I blame you for that )

I NEED TO KILL TIME SOMEHOW JUST LET ME HAVE THIS PLEASE.

Finished my edit! And sorry - I'm watching the Met game...and then Mr. Robot! Although you should watch another episode of SOA first as the correct strategy for all shows with commercials is to record them and then start ~20 minutes late so you can skip through them.

 

[silverfish]

Finished my edit! And sorry - I'm watching the Met game...and then Mr. Robot!

Haikus were more fun
I imagine this humor
Isn't popular

 

[SA16]

The above is what we call "Bad Poetry"

Uh oh..hope I didn't insult anyone again

 

[RangerBoy]

Queeneville is a tough coach to please and gain his trust. AV kept rolling out Kevin Hayes when Hayes sucked from head to toe. TT,Dano and Jeremy Morin. Mark McNeill is waiting for his opportunity. Vermette and Daley. The latter became a key player in Pitt. Once you get in the dog house,you never get out. Bowman trades the player.

 

[mti79]

Never really thought that the Rangers would be one of the teams in on Vesey. Always assumed that with Eichel in Buffalo + trading for him, that it was a lock. Knowing what we know now about this situation, I guess the Rangers may make a little bit of sense. Love that having Hayes can only help here. Amazing that it's between us and the Hawks, and Hayes may be the x-factor. Don't know how it will play out, but I guess options are never a bad thing. At worst, I'd imagine there's a plan B to all of this. Like to imagine that this gets resolved sooner rather than later after August 15th.

If you quote this post or see the white text, go back and take note of the first letter of each sentence.

NAKLADAL? Or did I screw this up?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not really sure how much of a difference Vesey makes. Lets say Vesey signs with the Rangers, is this our lineup?

Kreids-Step-Miller
Nash-Ziba-Zucc
Vesey-Hayes-Buch
Grabner-Jooris-Fast

Thats a really good group of forwards, maybe top 5 in the league. That group of forwards has youth, veterans, speed, size, shooting, passing, two way forwards, the problem will remain our defense. We have too many similar defenseman who don't pass the puck well, don't skate well and don't put up points. We'll probably make the playoffs with Vesey or without Vesey, but can you be a contender for the Stanley Cup with a top 5 group of forwards, top 5 goalie, and bottom 15 defense? I'm not sure that we can. There needed to be a trade this summer to add to our defense. So many people act like the team is much better if Staal and Girardi aren't on the team. I don't really think thats the case. Replace them with Holden and Clendening, the 7th and 8th defenseman for the Rangers, and you still have a team that needs significant help at defense. We need top 4 defenseman. McIlrath is not a top 4 defenseman. Klein is barely a top 4 defenseman. On a good defensive group, he's probably a bottom pairing defenseman. Holden might or might not be a #4, very unlikely that he can be a top 4 defenseman for a team trying to contend for the cup. Skjei could be a top 4 defenseman this season, Yandle could've helped with that. There was also the option to trade a forward for a defenseman. Why didn't Gorton do that if he wants to contend this season? Maybe he doesn't think the team will contend this season.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Hayes >>>> Vesey.

Solid add for free but the hype is a bit misplaced IMO.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I think we could get a good return for Nash if we retain money. If we are going to give Vesey top 6 minutes (assuming we sign him), something has to give.

True. I just want to keep Nash unless it's a big return (ie: after he plays some of this season at least and shows he can still score; plus the less term left, the more appealing he is. Nash with 1.25 years (deadline trade) or 1 year left (2017 draft/offseason trade) or even 0.25 years left (next deadline) brings back more than he does right now when with retention. Look at what guys like Eric Staal and Andrew Ladd got as pure rentals, and they didn't even have very good seasons; in Staal's case he had a horrible one.

Unless someone somehow gives us a premium package or high-potential youngster for Nash now, I'd keep him even if we get Vesey.

I think Buchnevich is more ready for a top-6 role than Vesey, but even so, I'd rather even play Nash on a 3rd line if it's crucial that Vesey gets promised "a top-6 role" as a stipulation for signing with NYR. Hayes would be a fine center for Nash anyway:

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Vesey Zibanejad Miller
Nash Hayes Buchnevich
Grabner Jooris Fast

would be fine by me!

or, they can both play in the top-6:

Kreider Stepan Nash
Vesey Zibanejad Zuccarello
Miller Hayes Buchnevich
Grabner Jooris Fast

with Miller/Vesey rotating throughout the season depending on chemistry.

Either way, we'd be in great shape as both of those 3rd lines produce like a 2nd line.

And are we sure Vesey even wants or gets a guaranteed top-6 role?
I'm not sure guys in his position always want or get that. Kevin Hayes was a Hobey Baker Finalist and he wasn't guaranteed a top-6 role when he signed here and he had a fantastic rookie season eating up 3rd pair defenders playing behind Step and Brass. I get that he's a C and was basically given the 3C spot as his to lose, and Vesey is a wing who likely wants to play with with the best talent in the top-6, but I also think that should be earned.

Either way, I'd really like to keep Nash for the time being even if we sign Vesey. Let some team get desperate at the deadline, draft, or next deadline after Nash scores 30+ goals again.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'm not really sure how much of a difference Vesey makes. Lets say Vesey signs with the Rangers, is this our lineup?

Kreids-Step-Miller
Nash-Ziba-Zucc
Vesey-Hayes-Buch
Grabner-Jooris-Fast

Thats a really good group of forwards, maybe top 5 in the league. That group of forwards has youth, veterans, speed, size, shooting, passing, two way forwards, the problem will remain our defense. We have too many similar defenseman who don't pass the puck well, don't skate well and don't put up points. We'll probably make the playoffs with Vesey or without Vesey, but can you be a contender for the Stanley Cup with a top 5 group of forwards, top 5 goalie, and bottom 15 defense? I'm not sure that we can. There needed to be a trade this summer to add to our defense. So many people act like the team is much better if Staal and Girardi aren't on the team. I don't really think thats the case. Replace them with Holden and Clendening, the 7th and 8th defenseman for the Rangers, and you still have a team that needs significant help at defense. We need top 4 defenseman. McIlrath is not a top 4 defenseman. Klein is barely a top 4 defenseman. On a good defensive group, he's probably a bottom pairing defenseman. Holden might or might not be a #4, very unlikely that he can be a top 4 defenseman for a team trying to contend for the cup. Skjei could be a top 4 defenseman this season, Yandle could've helped with that. There was also the option to trade a forward for a defenseman. Why didn't Gorton do that if he wants to contend this season? Maybe he doesn't think the team will contend this season.

To me, Klein is ideally the fourth best defenseman we should have. I think he's definitely top-4, but he's not high end.

He definitely shouldn't be our 2nd best defenseman...which, right now, he is.

 

[darko]

With the way the future looks for this team I can't see why he'd want to sign here.

I don't think our future is bleak at all. Our blue line is a mess but across the entire roster we have some really quality young players.

 

[RangerBoy]

I hope the Rangers can land Vesey. It will be one more young player added to the organization. Buchnevich was signed. Gorton acquired Zibanejad. Vesey and Buchnevich are exempt from expansion.

 

[darko]

I hope the Rangers can land Vesey. It will be one more young player added to the organization. Buchnevich was signed. Gorton acquired Zibanejad. Vesey and Buchnevich are exempt from expansion.

Most importantly he comes for free. Getting Hayes couple years ago and hopefully Vesey in about a week's time helps soften the blow of trading those 1st round picks and prospects.

 

[Irishguy42]

I'm not really sure how much of a difference Vesey makes. Lets say Vesey signs with the Rangers, is this our lineup?

Kreids-Step-Miller
Nash-Ziba-Zucc
Vesey-Hayes-Buch
Grabner-Jooris-Fast

Thats a really good group of forwards, maybe top 5 in the league. That group of forwards has youth, veterans, speed, size, shooting, passing, two way forwards, the problem will remain our defense. We have too many similar defenseman who don't pass the puck well, don't skate well and don't put up points. We'll probably make the playoffs with Vesey or without Vesey, but can you be a contender for the Stanley Cup with a top 5 group of forwards, top 5 goalie, and bottom 15 defense? I'm not sure that we can. There needed to be a trade this summer to add to our defense. So many people act like the team is much better if Staal and Girardi aren't on the team. I don't really think thats the case. Replace them with Holden and Clendening, the 7th and 8th defenseman for the Rangers, and you still have a team that needs significant help at defense. We need top 4 defenseman. McIlrath is not a top 4 defenseman. Klein is barely a top 4 defenseman. On a good defensive group, he's probably a bottom pairing defenseman. Holden might or might not be a #4, very unlikely that he can be a top 4 defenseman for a team trying to contend for the cup. Skjei could be a top 4 defenseman this season, Yandle could've helped with that. There was also the option to trade a forward for a defenseman. Why didn't Gorton do that if he wants to contend this season? Maybe he doesn't think the team will contend this season.

Maybe Gorton has other moves planned depending on landing Vesey or not. After the Brassard trade, which came out of nowhere, I think it's difficult to tell what Gorton will do next.

 

[Irishguy42]

Apparently Hartnett has something on Vesey. Will it be a re-hash on what has already been speculated by Haggerty or will it be something actually useful?

Knowing Hartnett...I'd say it's probably useful.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

This is from CSN NE. Say Vesey's top 3 choices are Chicago, Rangers and Devils.


http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/sources-boston-bruins-not-a-favorite-to-sign-jimmy-vesey

 

[Irishguy42]

This is from CSN NE. Say Vesey's top 3 choices are Chicago, Rangers and Devils.


http://www.csnne.com/boston-bruins/sources-boston-bruins-not-a-favorite-to-sign-jimmy-vesey

Right, but it's Joe Haggerty. So...take it with a few grains of salt.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Right, but it's Joe Haggerty. So...take it with a few grains of salt.

But it makes it sound like the Rangers are a favorite so it has to be true!

 

[Irishguy42]

But it makes it sound like the Rangers are a favorite so it has to be true!

Actually, considering it's Haggerty...and he's saying the Bruins aren't a favorite...

...Vesey to Bruins is pretty much confirmed.

 

[Roo Returns]

I don't think our future is bleak at all. Our blue line is a mess but across the entire roster we have some really quality young players.

Farm systems can be fixed relatively short term it's all about picking the right players. Red Wings did it for years with little name appeal.

Blue line might be a mess now but if Skjei and Graves pan out, McLIrath is allowed to mature, Zborovsky can be the mean 3rd pairing guy, and one of Day/Reunanen work out, in 2-3 years that's basically an entirely new D core.

This also doesn't factor UFA signings, acquiring a PMD for Nash down the road, or if Clendenning can pull a Stralman.