Speculation: Offseason Talk VI

[Blackhawkswincup]

The cap hit argument is kind of weak. If you're willing to add Couture at 6 mil, 6.7 for Thornton isn't that big of an issue. The age is about the only thing but three years of Thornton in that spot is plenty long-term and probably would cost less in assets than Couture.

Not really

With TOews/Kane/Saad contract extensions for 2015 coming the Hawks need every little bit of cap room possible

That 700K could be big for Hawks

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

What if DW is insistent on trading both but only Marleau will waive? Would you trade Marleau? Or would you keep him?

Good point. I'd keep him, but I'm also one of the delusional ones who thinks that this team can still compete for a Cup over the next couple of years if they make the right moves.

 

[Irbes Mask]

That 700K could be big for Hawks

Doubtful. It isn't hard to come up with 700k.

 

[hockeyball]

Doubtful. It isn't hard to come up with 700k.

And we are swimming in cap space, we could certainly retain 700k

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Not really

With TOews/Kane/Saad contract extensions for 2015 coming the Hawks need every little bit of cap room possible

That 700K could be big for Hawks

Yeah really because the Hawks have plenty of expendable assets they can move if they actually have the need to clear that 700k difference which they probably won't need to by then anyway. That and the raises for those three aren't as large as you'd like to believe. The three of them will probably combine for 5-6 million more.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Yeah really because the Hawks have plenty of expendable assets they can move if they actually have the need to clear that 700k difference which they probably won't need to by then anyway. That and the raises for those three aren't as large as you'd like to believe. The three of them will probably combine for 5-6 million more.

Kane and Toews current cap hits are 6.3M

They probably will be over 9M on next deals so those 2 alone will likely be 5-6M ,, Add in Saad bump (He will probaby end up in 3.5M-4M AAV range)

So really its likely a 9-10M increase

 

[Irbes Mask]

And we are swimming in cap space, we could certainly retain 700k

Why it's 37.5% of an Adam Burish!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kane and Toews current cap hits are 6.3M

They probably will be over 9M on next deals so those 2 alone will likely be 5-6M ,, Add in Sharps bump (He will probaby end up in 3.5M-4M AAV range)

So really its likely a 9-10M increase

I sincerely doubt that Kane and Toews will get 9 mil plus. They would get 8.5 mil tops and even that I doubt. And by Sharp, I assume you mean Saad and he's likely in the 3 mil range unless he takes a significant step up next year. He is restricted so it's going to be up to Chicago to determine how difficult they want to make negotiations for him.

But either way, the point is that Chicago has many different options to pursue to where them trading someone like Sharp for Thornton in an abstract sense isn't going to make or break their cap situation. They have plenty of expendable assets to cover themselves as well as a likely increase to the cap anyway. To make it out like that 700k difference is a dealbreaker is disingenuous.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I sincerely doubt that Kane and Toews will get 9 mil plus. They would get 8.5 mil tops and even that I doubt. And by Sharp, I assume you mean Saad and he's likely in the 3 mil range unless he takes a significant step up next year. He is restricted so it's going to be up to Chicago to determine how difficult they want to make negotiations for him.

But either way, the point is that Chicago has many different options to pursue to where them trading someone like Sharp for Thornton in an abstract sense isn't going to make or break their cap situation. They have plenty of expendable assets to cover themselves as well as a likely increase to the cap anyway. To make it out like that 700k difference is a dealbreaker is disingenuous.

Cap rising + NHLPA pushing them to take higher deal (Remember Toews was Hawk last CBA talks) and now 8 year limites = Higher cap hti then most other comparable under old CBA

8.5M would be miracle and I doubt it will happen ,, 9.25M is my guess

Saad as RFA would be disaster for Hawks (He would be poached especially with Hawks coming cap crunces)

Saad will get a Sharp like deal (in 2008 Sharp cap hit became 3.5M when extended as RFA)

 

[TealManV]

If Hawks are taking on JT at 6.7M then any deal would require either Leddy + Steeger or Leddy + Bickell as foundation

I apologize for my naivety but is Steeger, Versteeg?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I apologize for my naivety but is Steeger, Versteeg?

Yes ,, His nickname in Chicago during 1st run

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Cap rising + NHLPA pushing them to take higher deal (Remember Toews was Hawk last CBA talks) and now 8 year limites = Higher cap hti then most other comparable under old CBA

8.5M would be miracle and I doubt it will happen ,, 9.25M is my guess

Saad as RFA would be disaster for Hawks (He would be poached especially with Hawks coming cap crunces)

Saad will get a Sharp like deal (in 2008 Sharp cap hit became 3.5M when extended as RFA)

Except they don't have any comparables that are over 9 mil. They are not Malkin nor are they Ovechkin. Plus, this next contract will probably include a movement clause that covers their entire contract and not just their last season like their current deals. That comes at a discount in cap hit depending on how much control they give.

You are making far too big a deal of the Hawks' 'cap crunch' when it really isn't even that. The Hawks are not in such a bind that they can't sign Saad and that they'll have to wait it out with him to make other deals to get him under.

Sharp's cap hit when he was extended as an RFA was while he was in the midst of a 36 goal season. He is not a comparable for Saad unless Saad picks up his production significantly since right now he's a 20 goal guy.

 

[ScottyDont]

If Hawks are taking on JT at 6.7M then any deal would require either Leddy + Steeger or Leddy + Bickell as foundation

Leddy+Bickell as the foundation? What else would you be adding? Prospect or pick?

This could be interesting, depending on the extras, I'd even retain 15% of JT's cap.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I was thinking Couture could be one of the guys Wilson was talking about with this statement

Yeah definitely not him. No idea where'd you get that from.

 

[zombie kopitar]

Damn Joe's "agent" is such a little brat.
If Joe refuses to waive, the C better get stripped, I really can't believe he would refuse to waive after the failure under his tenure.
I think we can still compete with him and a minor few tweaks, it's just the principle.

I'd do Leddy and Bickell for Jumbo. If he doesn't waive for Chicago the man is just crazy, they would have amazing odds of winning a Cup during his contract.

 

[WTFetus]

Cap rising + NHLPA pushing them to take higher deal (Remember Toews was Hawk last CBA talks) and now 8 year limites = Higher cap hti then most other comparable under old CBA

8.5M would be miracle and I doubt it will happen ,, 9.25M is my guess

Saad as RFA would be disaster for Hawks (He would be poached especially with Hawks coming cap crunces)

Saad will get a Sharp like deal (in 2008 Sharp cap hit became 3.5M when extended as RFA)

Yeah I'm thinking 8.5 minimum. Probably will use Perry/Getzlaf as comparables, and that's not taking into account the higher cap.

I was thinking Couture could be one of the guys Wilson was talking about with this statement

Couture would probably be the last "vet" I would associate with that statement.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah definitely not him. No idea where'd you get that from.

He made it up because he wants Couture.

 

[Coy]

He made it up because he wants Couture.

Because Logan wears his baseball hat backwards and tweets.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

He made it up because he wants Couture.

And the Blackhawk fans want to get rid of Sharp.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He made it up because he wants Couture.

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement

Leddy+Bickell as the foundation? What else would you be adding? Prospect or pick?

This could be interesting, depending on the extras, I'd even retain 15% of JT's cap.

Leddy + Bickell + McNeill (Hawks 1st rounder 2011 draft ,, Coming off 1st AHL season)

 

[hockeyball]

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement

And it what possible way do you somehow connect that with Couture?

 

[Coy]

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement



Leddy + Bickell + McNeill (Hawks 1st rounder 2011 draft ,, Coming off 1st AHL season)

I'd take that deal for Thornton.

 

[Timo Time]

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement



Leddy + Bickell + McNeill (Hawks 1st rounder 2011 draft ,, Coming off 1st AHL season)

Where can we sign and complete this trade?

 

[Gilligans Island]

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement



Leddy + Bickell + McNeill (Hawks 1st rounder 2011 draft ,, Coming off 1st AHL season)

Speculation is basically making something up...

No interest in Bickell and don't know anything about McNeill. How NHL ready is he?

 

[glasgow26]

Didn't make it up

I speculated that Couture could be a guy ,, Clearly several people in Sharks upper echelon of talent are not being viewed with fondness from Wilson with that statement



Leddy + Bickell + McNeill (Hawks 1st rounder 2011 draft ,, Coming off 1st AHL season)

I'd do that. Seems like fair value to me. But I might be higher on McNeill than most.