Speculation: Offseason Talk VI

[hohosaregood]

I think that when things start going south, the Sharks for the most part panic...it is a negative feedback loop. So even though there may be a sense of urgency, the panic causes them to not execute.

Championship-caliber teams, for the most part, don't seem to panic like that...look at LA, Chicago, and even NYR. They're very composed...they have confidence in themselves, their game plans, and their teammates.



To be fair, Sutter changed his lineup, re-balancing his lines, and the Sharks didn't really match that well.

I don't know if that is TMac...looking at the matchups, I don't think those were matchups that the Sharks should have lost....

First part, I think that's a confirmation bias or some thing like that.

Second part, Every single player that was interviewed said that they got away from the gameplan and even TMac said the same thing multiple times. Even if the match up was bad, the whole style they were playing was completely different in the last 4 games.

 

[hockfan1991]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs140601.html

Sharks moving marleau and keeping Thornton is the single worst decision Wilson could make in this whole rebuild. Dw would not have much support from the fan base on this. He may not care. But for someone who's trying to resell the team again and give people hope for teams always fall short not really the right move. You don't even have to look at the fact that they keep and Joe just the fact that they're going toMove Patrick would be enough to really make some people angry. He knows what's going to happen. A lot of speculation. I will wait until after the draft in free agency to place judgment give it a couple more months.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Trading Marleau and keeping Thornton would be disastrous.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Sharks moving marleau and keeping Thornton is the single worst decision Wilson could make in this whole rebuild. Dw would not have much support from the fan base on this. He may not care. But for someone who's trying to resell the team again and give people hope for teams always fall short not really the right move. You don't even have to look at the fact that they keep and Joe just the fact that they're going toMove Patrick would be enough to really make some people angry. He knows what's going to happen. A lot of speculation. I will wait until after the draft in free agency to place judgment give it a couple more months.

Trading Marleau and keeping Thornton would be disastrous.

Agreed. Over the last few years it does seem as if DW has realized the importance of having speed in the lineup, so I highly doubt he does this.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Agreed. Over the last few years it does seem as if DW has realized the importance of having speed in the lineup, so I highly doubt he does this.

What if DW is insistent on trading both but only Marleau will waive? Would you trade Marleau? Or would you keep him?

 

[hockeyball]

What if DW is insistent on trading both but only Marleau will waive? Would you trade Marleau? Or would you keep him?

Teams screwed anyway, might as well get some return.

I don't think it'll come to that though. They'll force Thornton out if they have to, it'll just hurt the return. Once you go down the 'we don't want you here anymore' road (which they have already clearly started on) it's done. That player has to be moved, no matter what, even for no return. You hope that doesn't happen, but you can't go halfway down that road and turn back, it just makes things worse.

 

[magic school bus]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs140601.html

Thornton Lives

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

 

[Juxtaposer]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

What do you think of Saad for Thornton? That's how close it is.

There isn't a chance in ****ing hell.

 

[Hatrick Marleau]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

Not trading Couture for a 32 year old winger. Doesn't make sense for us.

 

[Irbes Mask]

To be fair, Sutter changed his lineup, re-balancing his lines, and the Sharks didn't really match that well.

The Sharks couldn't match the line balancing, injuries and ineffective players robbed them of their depth.

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

No way in hell and I like Sharpie.

 

[Boy Hedican]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

Nope. I like Sharp, but not at the expense of Couture. We're clearly not in win now mode, but even if we were we don't deal couture unless it's a massive over payment. He's poised to be one of our future leaders.

 

[Boy Hedican]

I know there's a lot of speculation going on in here, and I'm guilty of it as well (not so much vocally on here), but making assumptions of conversations based on a few tweets or reports is just silly. Just because Joe may have shown no interest in waiving his clause doesn't make him a selfish a-hole. He was given that card, and he has the right to exercise it at will. I still say he should be moved for the good of the team from an asset allocation stand point, but DW handcuffed himself if he didn't include a condition to the NMC he just dealt JT & Patty.

That said, I'm all over keeping Patty unless an overpayment was offered.

 

[Gilligans Island]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

We should stick to something around Thornton for Sharp. If you add Leddy, we can add something if needed to balance it out.

 

[weastern bias]

Trading Marleau and keeping Thornton would be disastrous.

This

That should only happen if both Joe won't leave AND Patty won't stay

 

[Juxtaposer]

Sharp's a decent player but he's not what we need. I have serious doubts about his ability to create without elite linemates.

He's what, two years younger than Thornton? It's not worth the significant downgrade from JT to Sharp just to get younger by two years.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

We should stick to something around Thornton for Sharp. If you add Leddy, we can add something if needed to balance it out.

Thronton would be bad for Hawks fit for Hawks ,, Need a longterm #2C

Also has a 6.7M cap hit so Hawks add too much new cap , Is soon to be 35 (Nearly 3 years older then Sharp) and is not same player he was a few years ago

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Just throwing things out here as Hawks season is done and I have nothing better to do on HF

Do you guys think a Couture for Sharp (Maybe throw in a McNeill given age difference) deal makes sense?

Sharks appear blessed with C depth , Hawks are blessed with depth on wing

Sharks add a vet LW/RW with 2 cups and plenty of playoff experience for pursuit of cup and getting Sharks over the hump

Couture gives Hawks longterm #2C option and allows team to move Teravainen over to RW (Some aren't sold on him as an NHL C)

Longshot to see Sharp moved but team needs to think about #2C issue now more then ever after the debacle vs Kings when our C depth issues were exposed and helped lose series

Come on dude.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I was thinking Couture could be one of the guys Wilson was talking about with this statement

I want players that want to play here," Sharks general manager Doug Wilson told me, "not just live here

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thronton would be bad for Hawks fit for Hawks ,, Need a longterm #2C

Also has a 6.7M cap hit so Hawks add too much new cap , Is soon to be 35 (Nearly 3 years older then Sharp) and is not same player he was a few years ago

The cap hit argument is kind of weak. If you're willing to add Couture at 6 mil, 6.7 for Thornton isn't that big of an issue. The age is about the only thing but three years of Thornton in that spot is plenty long-term and probably would cost less in assets than Couture.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I was thinking Couture could be one of the guys Wilson was talking about with this statement

He isn't.

 

[spintops]

Yea not a fan of moving Patty but keeping Thornton.

 

[TealManV]

Some quick points on today's fun:
-I don't trust or believe the fourth period when it comes to Sharks info. Just trying to drive traffic to the site based off one of the hotter offseason topics.
-I agree with most of you that moving Marleau and not Thornton would atrocious. Thornton should go and Marleau should stay.
-Logical spots for JT: ANA, STL, CHI, DET, NYR, TOR, TB and my favorite long shot, FLA.
-We already have a Sharp and his name is Marleau. Thornton is actually a great fit as 2nd C for CHI, IMO. But the return would start with Leddy or Saad.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Some quick points on today's fun:
-I don't trust or believe the fourth period when it comes to Sharks info. Just trying to drive traffic to the site based off one of the hotter offseason topics.
-I agree with most of you that moving Marleau and not Thornton would atrocious. Thornton should go and Marleau should stay.
-Logical spots for JT: ANA, STL, CHI, DET, NYR, TOR, TB and my favorite long shot, FLA.
-We already have a Sharp and his name is Marleau. Thornton is actually a great fit as 2nd C for CHI, IMO. But the return would start with Leddy or Saad.

If Hawks are taking on JT at 6.7M then any deal would require either Leddy + Steeger or Leddy + Bickell as foundation

 

[Nolan11]

We have no idea that his teammates think he wasn't the problem. Boyle was clearly pretty pissed off at someone on the team, but we don't know who.

Anyway, your premise is terrible. Doug Wilson IS the higher ups, the buck stops there. Platner has said repeatedly he doesn't get involved in hockey decisions, so it's unlikely he's telling Wilson to dump Joe. Doug Wilson has decided Joe is the problem, he's not going to walk into a negotiation and say "I ****ed up, but I'm blaming you". Obviously he doesn't think Joe's performance is his fault, rightfully. He believes he built a good enough team at this point, gave McLellan all the tools, and the job didn't get done. Whatever his reasoning, he's decided Thornton and Marleau at the very least will not help this team going forward. He clearly doesn't believe this team can win a cup, and he either straight blames those two or at least feels it's time to rebuild and there is no reason to keep them around any further.

Add onto that they very clear indication that the team essentially mutinied and ignored McLellan for the last 4 games (since they freely admitted they did so) and Doug has every right to blame the captain of the team for that. Everyone stopped doing what they were told, but he can't trade everyone, but he can trade the team leader who participated and set the worst example.

Great post. Yes, I can see this being DW pov. What I am trying to convey, however, is there may be real emotional based reasons for a player to refuse to waive an nmc. We just don't know how joe or any player would react. Without a window, they hold all the power. Refusing to waive is their right, and it is a distinct possibility. We just don't know