Speculation: Offseason Talk VI

[Juxtaposer]

Old thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1678183

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[hohosaregood]

I predict Oleksuk and Abeltshauser will be on the team next year. Don't ask me why because I have no real reasons except I kinda like them.

 

[matt trick]

I predict Oleksuk and Abeltshauser will be on the team next year. Don't ask me why because I have no real reasons except I kinda like them.

I've got Albeltshuaser, Hayes, and a heavy sprinkling of Tennysson and Hamilton. Cups of coffee for O'regan, Tierney, and Doherty.

 

[Barrie22]

Fans/media/wilson wants a cultural change. Send all nhl players to the ahl and call up wors entire team.

 

[67 others]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs140601.html

Marleau and Thornton both have no-movement clauses in their contracts and would have to approve any trade the Sharks attempt to complete.

Marleau met with the Sharks on May 16 to discuss his future with the organization, where it is believed the topic of a potential trade was brought up.

According to multiple sources, TFP has learned that Thornton is not interested in waiving his no-movement clause, though Marleau may be more inclined to do so.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/sjs140601.html

I don't understand why a player would want to stay around if the team does not want him to.

 

[matt trick]

I think a Torres-Herrl-Havlat line has a bit of everything.

Everything but 6 healthy knees.

I think there are 2 healthy knees in that mix.

Lol, that is true enough. That said, Hemsky was healthy last year, and is good for 25-40 assists per year. He is fast, an excellent playmaker, and a right handed rw, ideal for a left-handed center.

Torres brings physicality the other two lack.

The injury concern is a very legitimate one, especially with Havlat likely to be bought out.

 

[Nolan11]

I don't understand why a player would want to stay around if the team does not want him to.

I personally get it. If my team missed its goal and my boss tried to use me as the excuse, I'd be pissed and would exercise my nmc to stick around. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a nmc in real world?) Would do my damnedest to prove them wrong the next year.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I personally get it. If my team missed its goal and my boss tried to use me as the excuse, I'd be pissed and would exercise my nmc to stick around. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a nmc in real world?) Would do my damnedest to prove them wrong the next year.

And if you missed your goal multiple years in a row? And they told you they were promoting the guy you trained as the new manager?

If I knew I was not wanted, had the choice to give my current company a list of other companies I am interested in working for and make the same amount of money with lesser responsibility (assuming no captain). I would be totally fine.

Also, I am not sure if Jumbo is exactly the type of player who would thrive in a situation where he knows he is not wanted. He is too happy go lucky.

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

I personally get it. If my team missed its goal and my boss tried to use me as the excuse, I'd be pissed and would exercise my nmc to stick around. (Wouldn't it be nice to have a nmc in real world?) Would do my damnedest to prove them wrong the next year.

I don't get it. Your the top dog. Boss comes to you and says we want to give your title to someone else because you refuse to adapt to the changing business plan. You have made it clear you wont change your ways. Sets a rotten example that the captain won't change in order for the team to be succesfull.. Selfish Joe should go.

 

[matt trick]

And if you missed your goal multiple years in a row? And they told you they were promoting the guy you trained as the new manager?

If I knew I was not wanted, had the choice to give my current company a list of other companies I am interested in working for and make the same amount of money with lesser responsibility (assuming no captain). I would be totally fine.

Also, I am not sure if Jumbo is exactly the type of player who would thrive in a situation where he knows he is not wanted. He is too happy go lucky.

Of course, I'd list Apple, Google, and Linkedin, but I don't think any of those guys would take me.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Of course, I'd list Apple, Google, and Linkedin, but I don't think any of those guys would take me.

That is not your problem .. that is the problem of your current company ..

Seriously though, if I were Jumbo, I would have no issue waiving my NMC. But I would only do it for teams like ANA, LA, MTL, NYR, PITT, BOS (maybe), etc. Do it for teams that you know have a solid chance to win the cup in the next year or two.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't get it. Your the top dog. Boss comes to you and says we want to give your title to someone else because you refuse to adapt to the changing business plan. You have made it clear you wont change your ways. Sets a rotten example that the captain won't change in order for the team to be succesfull.. Selfish Joe should go.

He's being anything but selfish. He knows none of you are ready for a future without him.

 

[hockeyball]

I think Thornton probably knows he won't be on the team next year, he's just pushing for them to buy him out (which will never happen). I don't think they can compliance buy him out anyway, his current contract qualifies, but his new one does not, and they certainly are not using a traditional buy out.

That or the Sharks have some trick up their sleeve we don't know about. It's odd they spoke to Marleau about it and not Thornton (I believe John said he has not been asked to waive). Makes me think there is some difference between the two deals.

 

[Gilligans Island]

He's being anything but selfish. He knows none of you are ready for a future without him.

That is completely selfish. And that last statement is full of hubris. He is putting himself above the team.

I don't get it. Your the top dog. Boss comes to you and says we want to give your title to someone else because you refuse to adapt to the changing business plan. You have made it clear you wont change your ways. Sets a rotten example that the (soon-to-be-former) captain won't change in order for the team to be succesfull.. Selfish Joe should go.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I'm obviously joking. He is being selfish and immature, I know that, and I'm shocked he would do this. With that said, if he blocks a trade he's still doing the right thing for the team.

 

[Gilligans Island]

I'm obviously joking. He is being selfish and immature, I know that, and I'm shocked he would do this. With that said, if he blocks a trade he's still doing the right thing for the team.

Since you've been so amazingly adamant the Sharks need to keep both of our vets, it was hard to tell you're joking... BS on blocking a trade. He'll start hearing the boos...

 

[Levie]

I'm obviously joking. He is being selfish and immature, I know that, and I'm shocked he would do this. With that said, if he blocks a trade he's still doing the right thing for the team.

Next season? Sure. The Season after? Probably. After that? Who knows. Moving Thornton isn't a cup now move. It's a move for a new future that will probably not be realized for 3+ years.

I wonder what that poster who said Marleau is the selfish one has to say about this... Seems like Marleau is the opposite from these comments. Not only has he changed his play on the ice to be a more complete player but he is also open to waiving a NMC if he's not wanted.

Respect for Marleau rising. Too bad I don't think he's the problem.

 

[Nolan11]

I don't get it. Your the top dog. Boss comes to you and says we want to give your title to someone else because you refuse to adapt to the changing business plan. You have made it clear you wont change your ways. Sets a rotten example that the captain won't change in order for the team to be succesfull.. Selfish Joe should go.

More like boss comes to you and says "I know I did not get you the staff needed to get the job done but the board wants someone's head on a platter. I told them it's your fault, but don't worry, I'll pull some strings with some associates and find you another job. By the way, how do you like shoveling snow?... "

Seriously, if my boss refused to admit his culpability and besmearched my rep, why would I make it easy for him? I would dig heels in and stick with my teammates who know I was not the problem.

 

[hohosaregood]

I will withhold my opinions on Joe until things are said for certain. All we have to go off is rumors from Dreger and McKenzie and as trustworthy as McKenzie usually is, the situation's too up in the air for me to really want to speculate on the matter.

 

[hockeyball]

More like boss comes to you and says "I know I did not get you the staff needed to get the job done but the board wants someone's head on a platter. I told them it's your fault, but don't worry, I'll pull some strings with some associates and find you another job. By the way, how do you like shoveling snow?... "

Seriously, if my boss refused to admit his culpability and besmearched my rep, why would I make it easy for him? I would dig heels in and stick with my teammates who know I was not the problem.

We have no idea that his teammates think he wasn't the problem. Boyle was clearly pretty pissed off at someone on the team, but we don't know who.

Anyway, your premise is terrible. Doug Wilson IS the higher ups, the buck stops there. Platner has said repeatedly he doesn't get involved in hockey decisions, so it's unlikely he's telling Wilson to dump Joe. Doug Wilson has decided Joe is the problem, he's not going to walk into a negotiation and say "I ****ed up, but I'm blaming you". Obviously he doesn't think Joe's performance is his fault, rightfully. He believes he built a good enough team at this point, gave McLellan all the tools, and the job didn't get done. Whatever his reasoning, he's decided Thornton and Marleau at the very least will not help this team going forward. He clearly doesn't believe this team can win a cup, and he either straight blames those two or at least feels it's time to rebuild and there is no reason to keep them around any further.

Add onto that they very clear indication that the team essentially mutinied and ignored McLellan for the last 4 games (since they freely admitted they did so) and Doug has every right to blame the captain of the team for that. Everyone stopped doing what they were told, but he can't trade everyone, but he can trade the team leader who participated and set the worst example.

 

[Gilligans Island]

HB, I think there's a slight difference. A mutiny is a very deliberate act against authority.

I just think this team when faced with extreme adversity lacks poise, panics and reverts to old losing ways. Or like in game 5, lack a sense of urgency.

Minor distinction

 

[Juxtaposer]

We have no idea that his teammates think he wasn't the problem. Boyle was clearly pretty pissed off at someone on the team, but we don't know who.

Anyway, your premise is terrible. Doug Wilson IS the higher ups, the buck stops there. Platner has said repeatedly he doesn't get involved in hockey decisions, so it's unlikely he's telling Wilson to dump Joe. Doug Wilson has decided Joe is the problem, he's not going to walk into a negotiation and say "I ****ed up, but I'm blaming you". Obviously he doesn't think Joe's performance is his fault, rightfully. He believes he built a good enough team at this point, gave McLellan all the tools, and the job didn't get done. Whatever his reasoning, he's decided Thornton and Marleau at the very least will not help this team going forward. He clearly doesn't believe this team can win a cup, and he either straight blames those two or at least feels it's time to rebuild and there is no reason to keep them around any further.

Add onto that they very clear indication that the team essentially mutinied and ignored McLellan for the last 4 games (since they freely admitted they did so) and Doug has every right to blame the captain of the team for that. Everyone stopped doing what they were told, but he can't trade everyone, but he can trade the team leader who participated and set the worst example.

I highly doubt they "mutinied". I'm guessing something like injuries struck and they weren't able to effectively use the, I'm guessing, difficult and demanding system recited to beat LA as soundly as they did in games 1 and 2, so they relapsed into old ways. I'm guessing that started with Joe.

 

[hockeyball]

I highly doubt they "mutinied". I'm guessing something like injuries struck and they weren't able to effectively use the, I'm guessing, difficult and demanding system recited to beat LA as soundly as they did in games 1 and 2, so they relapsed into old ways. I'm guessing that started with Joe.

Sure, but you get my point, I just couldn't find the right word.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I just think this team when faced with extreme adversity lacks poise, panics and reverts to old losing ways. Or like in game 5, lack a sense of urgency.

Minor distinction

I think that when things start going south, the Sharks for the most part panic...it is a negative feedback loop. So even though there may be a sense of urgency, the panic causes them to not execute.

Championship-caliber teams, for the most part, don't seem to panic like that...look at LA, Chicago, and even NYR. They're very composed...they have confidence in themselves, their game plans, and their teammates.

I highly doubt they "mutinied". I'm guessing something like injuries struck and they weren't able to effectively use the, I'm guessing, difficult and demanding system recited to beat LA as soundly as they did in games 1 and 2, so they relapsed into old ways. I'm guessing that started with Joe.

To be fair, Sutter changed his lineup, re-balancing his lines, and the Sharks didn't really match that well.

I don't know if that is TMac...looking at the matchups, I don't think those were matchups that the Sharks should have lost....