Rumor: Offseason Rumors Thread #1 | Trade Milan, Milan So Far Away?

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smokersarejokers

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Jul 7, 2005
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Yea thats what I got off of Oilers now as well. Vanek hated Viv for some reason

Viveiros made Vanek the captain of the Austrian Olympic team and they had an awful tournament. A large group of players, led by Vanek, partied hard before their last game and Manny was understandably really pissed.

There's some bad blood for sure.
 

KMart27

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Jun 9, 2013
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And yet at ES this year's version of the Oilers scored the same number of goals as the previous year. In fact collectively the wingers scored about the same number of goals over the two seasons. The big difference between the two years was on the GA side.

Even more reason why scoring more goals would have been beneficial. Remember the poor start to the season? No depth scoring. If McDavid, Draisaitl or RNH weren't on the ice the Oilers weren't scoring. Eventually the bottom 6 started scoring but the team never fully recovered from that start.
 

backhandsauce

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Oct 19, 2009
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Too bad re: Vanek. Thought he would have been a solid net front guy on our PP.

The think with Vanek tho is he is been getting short term deals. Maybe he wants some job security. Maybe he takes a 2-3 year deal at 2.5 per?
 

Joey Moss

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Aug 29, 2008
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I wasn't overly keen on signing Vanek anyways. Slow, lazy player with potential attitude issues. Right shot who put up numbers would be nice but at the end of the day he's 34.. could easily turn into Jussi Jokinen next season.

I've also seen people talking about signing Hendricks.. no way. Chia isn't bringing him back after letting him go. He'll stick to the younger guys like Caggiula and Khaira again, as he should. I don't mind the Reaves idea though as a 13th guy. Doesn't put up numbers but not bad on the cycle. I could see him and Khaira working well down low.
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
Apr 9, 2010
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Too bad re: Vanek. Thought he would have been a solid net front guy on our PP.

The think with Vanek tho is he is been getting short term deals. Maybe he wants some job security. Maybe he takes a 2-3 year deal at 2.5 per?

I think that's probably what his agent's looking for considering he's been on the move so often these past few years. He's still a guy putting up 40-50 points a year on average. He might actually see a bigger cap number.
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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Viveiros made Vanek the captain of the Austrian Olympic team and they had an awful tournament. A large group of players, led by Vanek, partied hard before their last game and Manny was understandably really pissed.

There's some bad blood for sure.
Good, I'll take a good coach over a mediocre player just looking to collect a paycheque.
 

McShogun99

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Aug 30, 2009
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to me, the only real issue is the defense. Chia made me somewhat happy when one of the first things he said was that he wanted to get a PP dman. Imo, we will be shocked when we fix that issue, and how much it will fix other issues on the team, even if that Dman is one-dimensional

Why get a right shot PP Dman when we could try using JP in that spot with Klefbom or Sekera as the other point option. Use JP similar to how Laine and Ovi are used.
 

Spawn

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Feb 20, 2006
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And yet at ES this year's version of the Oilers scored the same number of goals as the previous year. In fact collectively the wingers scored about the same number of goals over the two seasons. The big difference between the two years was on the GA side.

I'd be very curious to see how you calculated those numbers.

Maroon, Lucic and Eberle alone scored 70 goals in the 16-17 season.

Maroon, Cagguila, Lucic, Puljujarvi, Kassian, Slepy, Rattie, Cammalleri, Pak and Aberg combined for 75.
 

Spawn

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Why get a right shot PP Dman when we could try using JP in that spot with Klefbom or Sekera as the other point option. Use JP similar to how Laine and Ovi are used.

Neither of those teams role just the one player as one-time options.

The Jets have three with Laine, Scheifele and Buff. The Caps have Ovi, Oshie and Carlson.
 
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Mr Positive

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Why get a right shot PP Dman when we could try using JP in that spot with Klefbom or Sekera as the other point option. Use JP similar to how Laine and Ovi are used.
I'm for anything that works, but I just know that we've tried forwards back there and it's never worked, even McDavid. I'm also not entirely sure how Ovi and Laine are used, but I saw Ovechkin play around the net more than on the point on the PP in these playoffs so far. Washington is blessed on their back end with Carlson, and even Orlov, Niskanen

Maybe JP just isn't good enough yet to be used like that though.
 
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SK13

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Jul 23, 2007
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I'd be very curious to see how you calculated those numbers.

Maroon, Lucic and Eberle alone scored 70 goals in the 16-17 season.

Maroon, Cagguila, Lucic, Puljujarvi, Kassian, Slepy, Rattie, Cammalleri, Pak and Aberg combined for 75.

I'm assuming he's including RNH in that, but RNH scored half his goals or more at C. The Oilers were definitely less productive on the wing, but more productive down the middle this past year. With Draisaitl presumably sticking at 2C and RNH moving to 1LW, that should balance itself a bit but, yeah, more help is needed.

Fourier's point doesn't work for me because the Oilers were not impressive at 5v5 in either season. Yes, they were top-10 or close in both 16-17 and 17-18 in 5v5 GF, but that has everything to do with the Oilers having the best 5v5 player since prime Jaromir Jagr and nothing to do with the rest of the team. The Oilers "second-line" (I put that in quotation marks because they didn't have a real second line for most of 16-17), scored only 28 5v5 goals in 64 games before going supernova in the spring.

McDavid will produce regardless. If he's got a good winger, they will too. Draisaitl's numbers without McDavid was actually okay offensively this past year. McDavid/RNH and Draisaitl/any suitable winger should provide more balanced 5v5 numbers than the Oilers had in either season, simply because the trio of Lucic, Eberle and RNH were mostly very unproductive in 16-17.
 

Fourier

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I'd be very curious to see how you calculated those numbers.

Maroon, Lucic and Eberle alone scored 70 goals in the 16-17 season.

Maroon, Cagguila, Lucic, Puljujarvi, Kassian, Slepy, Rattie, Cammalleri, Pak and Aberg combined for 75.


You will notice the ES part of the post. Those three scored 51 ES goals last year. Overall the wingers scored about 85-87 ES goals. The group you quoted had 75 ES goals and Strome had 8 or so as a winger for a total of about 83 ES goals from wingers other than Leon and Nuge.
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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I'm assuming he's including RNH in that, but RNH scored half his goals or more at C. The Oilers were definitely less productive on the wing, but more productive down the middle this past year. With Draisaitl presumably sticking at 2C and RNH moving to 1LW, that should balance itself a bit but, yeah, more help is needed.

Fourier's point doesn't work for me because the Oilers were not impressive at 5v5 in either season. Yes, they were top-10 or close in both 16-17 and 17-18 in 5v5 GF, but that has everything to do with the Oilers having the best 5v5 player since prime Jaromir Jagr and nothing to do with the rest of the team. The Oilers "second-line" (I put that in quotation marks because they didn't have a real second line for most of 16-17), scored only 28 5v5 goals in 64 games before going supernova in the spring.

McDavid will produce regardless. If he's got a good winger, they will too. Draisaitl's numbers without McDavid was actually okay offensively this past year. McDavid/RNH and Draisaitl/any suitable winger should provide more balanced 5v5 numbers than the Oilers had in either season, simply because the trio of Lucic, Eberle and RNH were mostly very unproductive in 16-17.

Again, this is more myth than reality. I have posted on several occasions how the Oilers forwards scoring beyond their top three compared with other teams in the league. Their depth scoring from their forwards was above average both seasons. The scoring has been by committee rather than by a specific line.

No one is saying that they would not be better with more scoring. But at ES this team has generally been good even when McDavid was not dominating. Despite a terrible start and despite missing Leon and also with McDavid being sick for a month the Oilers were 8th in ES goals per game for as of December 30th. The Oilers problem was keeping the puck out of their net and then scoring on the pp.

People quote the %-age of points McDavid is in on and use this as a means of suggesting that there is no secondary scoring. This sort of argument is simply bad mathematics!!!
 

SK13

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Jul 23, 2007
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Again, this is more myth than reality. I have posted on several occasions how the Oilers forwards scoring beyond their top three compared with other teams in the league. Their depth scoring from their forwards was above average both seasons. The scoring has been by committee rather than by a specific line.

No one is saying that they would not be better with more scoring. But at ES this team has generally been good even when McDavid was not dominating. Despite a terrible start and despite missing Leon and also with McDavid being sick for a month the Oilers were 8th in ES goals per game for as of December 30th. The Oilers problem was keeping the puck out of their net and then scoring on the pp.

People quote the %-age of points McDavid is in on and use this as a means of suggesting that there is no secondary scoring. This sort of argument is simply bad mathematics!!!

Really? Can you dig one of those posts up? I find that hard to believe considering these two things are clearly true: McDavid had the most productive 5v5 season any player has had in 21 years and the Oilers were only 4 5v5 goals better than the median in 5v5 scoring. That says to me that the result MUST be that the Oilers were less productive than average apart from McDavid. Some of that is definitely defense scoring, but still.

If you did the work, I'd like to see it. The Oilers did not have much of a second line for most of that year. Letestu and Lucic production was largely 5v4.
 
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Fourier

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Really? Can you dig one of those posts up? I find that hard to believe considering these two things are clearly true: McDavid had the most productive 5v5 season any player has had in 21 years and the Oilers were only 4 5v5 goals better than the median in 5v5 scoring. That says to me that the result MUST be that the Oilers were less productive than average apart from McDavid. Some of that is definitely defense scoring, but still.

If you did the work, I'd like to see it. The Oilers did not have much of a second line for most of that year. Letestu and Lucic production was largely 5v4.

Here is one of the posts from last year that covers up to the end of December 19th of of 2016. This is before the second line went "super nova" by the way. In fact this was before the Oilers actually took off.

I'll add to what you said in that thread. I looked at the #4-6 scoring forwards on each team and then all forwards out of the top 3. Here are the rankings:

Goals for the #4-6 ranked forwards.

Code:
Ana    30    1
NYR    30    2
Chi    28    3
Clb    28    4
TBL    26    5
Nas    24    6
Tor    22    7
Det    21    8
Edm    21    9
Mon    21    10
Pit    21    11
Van    21    12
Buf    20    13
Min    20    14
Ott    20    15
Was    20    16
Win    20    17
Cal    19    18
Car    19    19
Phi    19    20
Ari    18    21
Bos    18    22
NJD    18    23
Flo    17    24
StL    17    25
Col    16    26
NYI     16    27
Dal    15    28
LA    14    29
SJS    13    30

Points for #4-6

Code:
Clb    63    1
NYR    62    2
Ana    58    3
Tor    57    4
Min    54    5
Nas    53    6
Edm    52    7
Chi    51    8
Pit    50    9
StL    50    10
Mon    49    11
Van    48    12
TBL    47    13
Phi    47    14
Ott    45    15
Cal    45    16
NJD    45    17
Dal    45    18
Det    43    19
Was    43    20
Win    42    21
Car    42    22
Flo    42    23
Bos    39    24
LA    39    25
NYI     37    26
Buf    36    27
SJS    32    28
Ari    31    29
Col    31    30

Goals for all forwards outside of the top 3.

Code:
NYR    73    1
Clb    54    2
Ana    52    3
Pit    51    4
Nas    49    5
TBL    49    6
Min    47    7
Mon    47    8
Edm    46    9
Chi    46    10
Phi    46    11
Car    46    12
Van    43    13
Cal    43    14
Det    42    15
Dal    40    16
Win    40    17
NYI     40    18
Buf    40    19
StL    39    20
Was    39    21
Tor    36    22
Ott    36    23
Ari    36    24
Bos    35    25
SJS    34    26
Col    34    27
LA    33    28
NJD    31    29
Flo    31    30

Points for forwards outside of the top 3.

Code:
NYR    151    1
Pit    124    2
Clb    119    3
Mon    118    4
Cal    115    5
Min    112    6
TBL    111    7
Edm    111    8
Nas    105    9
Phi    105    10
Ana    102    11
StL    101    12
Van    100    13
Tor    100    14
Dal    98    15
Chi    95    16
Car    92    17
Det    92    18
NYI     92    19
Win    90    20
Was    85    21
Ott    84    22
NJD    83    23
Bos    82    24
LA    82    25
Ari    81    26
SJS    81    27
Flo    80    28
Buf    77    29
Col    65    30

The Rangers secondary scoring has been incredible. The Oilers are top ten but of course there is still a McDavid effect here to a degree. But even ignoring that they would probably still be top 10.

Let's compare them this year with the Pen's, a team that is seen as having excellent depth up front. You can simply look at the goals scored. At ES the Oilers forwards have been better than they get credit for. McDavid is so good that it tends to make everyone else look like they are doing nothing. But here are the Oilers top 12 goals scores by forwards at ES vs Pittsburgh

1) McDavid 35 (82) vs Malkin 28 (78) 35 vs 28
2) Nuge 18 (62) vs Kessel 22 (82) 53 vs 50
3) Draisaitl 16 (78) vs Crosby 20 (82) 69 vs 70
4) Maroon 14 (57) vs Sheary 16 (79) 83 vs 86
5) Strome 11 (82) vs Geuntzel 15 (82) 94 vs 101
6) Puljujarvi 10 (65) vs Hornqvist 14 (70) 104 vs 115
7) Khaira 10 (69) vs Sheehan 10 (73) 114 vs 125
8) Caggiula 9 (67) vs Rust 9 (69) 123 vs 134
9) Lucic 7 (82) vs Hagelin 9 (81) 130 vs 143
10) Kassian 7 (64) vs Reeves 4 (57) 137 vs 147
11) Slepyshev 6 (50) vs Simon 4 (33) 142 vs 151
12) Rattie 5 (14) vs Aston-Reese 4 (16) 147 vs 155

That's an 8 goal difference over the top 12 and from #4-#12 it is a 7 goal difference in total. And generally the Pittsburgh guys played more games.
The main difference between these two teams was on the pp where the Pens outscored the Oiler by a mile. But upgrading on Kassian is not going to change a pp.
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,761
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Here is one of the posts from last year that covers up to the end of December 19th of of 2016. This is before the second line went "super nova" by the way. In fact this was before the Oilers actually took off.



Let's compare them this year with the Pen's, a team that is seen as having excellent depth up front. You can simply look at the goals scored. At ES the Oilers forwards have been better than they get credit for. McDavid is so good that it tends to make everyone else look like they are doing nothing. But here are the Oilers top 12 goals scores by forwards at ES vs Pittsburgh

1) McDavid 35 (82) vs Malkin 28 (78) 35 vs 28
2) Nuge 18 (62) vs Kessel 22 (82) 53 vs 50
3) Draisaitl 16 (78) vs Crosby 20 (82) 69 vs 70
4) Maroon 14 (57) vs Sheary 16 (79) 83 vs 86
5) Strome 11 (82) vs Geuntzel 15 (82) 94 vs 101
6) Puljujarvi 10 (65) vs Hornqvist 14 (70) 104 vs 115
7) Khaira 10 (69) vs Sheehan 10 (73) 114 vs 125
8) Caggiula 9 (67) vs Rust 9 (69) 123 vs 134
9) Lucic 7 (82) vs Hagelin 9 (81) 130 vs 143
10) Kassian 7 (64) vs Reeves 4 (57) 137 vs 147
11) Slepyshev 6 (50) vs Simon 4 (33) 142 vs 151
12) Rattie 5 (14) vs Aston-Reese 4 (16) 147 vs 155

That's an 8 goal difference over the top 12 and from #4-#12 it is a 7 goal difference in total. And generally the Pittsburgh guys played more games.
The main difference between these two teams was on the pp where the Pens outscored the Oiler by a mile. But upgrading on Kassian is not going to change a pp.

This says something about my perception of early 2016-2017 (I'll need to unpack that), less so with the Penguins comparison because of the McDavid WOWY effect. Connor's impact isn't just the goals he scored, but the increase in production virtually every player has with him. Since he played with 8 different wingers and MOST of that list, in order to be at all accurate, you need to distill the Oilers secondary scoring without McDavid to the Penguins without either one of Malkin or Crosby.

Is there still a site that tracks GFON/60 and GFOFF/60, because that would be much easier. Travis Yost wrote an article on this in early march that demonstrated the Oilers scoring rates WOWY McDavid 5v5.
 
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EDMOILERS9729

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Dec 25, 2017
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The idiot Eklund said that the idiot Chia is in "deep discussion" with Anaheim around Klefbom. I think Chia's trying to trade 10th overall and Klefbom for Montour Kase and Sam Steel. Book it. Trying to bring the Sherwood Park boy home. And i think he is repeatedly being told no,no,no. I think I'd def do that deal.
 

Mr Positive

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The idiot Eklund said that the idiot Chia is in "deep discussion" with Anaheim around Klefbom. I think Chia's trying to trade 10th overall and Klefbom for Montour Kase and Sam Steel. Book it. Trying to bring the Sherwood Park boy home. And i think he is repeatedly being told no,no,no. I think I'd def do that deal.
That makes no sense to me. Anaheim's D is deep and young. Their forward core is aging. They need Steel more than Klef. Even if Steel isn't involved, they still don't need Klef
 
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