OT: Official HFCaps STAR WARS Episode 7 Discussion (Warning: may contain E7 spoilers)

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g00n

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BTW, why isn't Kylo Ren a "Darth"?

The premise is the "force" has gone back to being a myth to most, like prior to ANH. That includes good and bad jedi. Note how astounded Po (?) looks when Ren stops his blaster shot in the opening battle scene.

Which, to be honest, seems like a stretch for both movies. If there are such horrific and widespread conflicts involving Jedi you'd think memories of them would last more than part of one generation.
 

HunterSThompson

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The premise is the "force" has gone back to being a myth to most, like prior to ANH. That includes good and bad jedi. Note how astounded Po (?) looks when Ren stops his blaster shot in the opening battle scene.

Which, to be honest, seems like a stretch for both movies. If there are such horrific and widespread conflicts involving Jedi you'd think memories of them would last more than part of one generation.

I thought of this too, but with 1.5 million planets in the empire and that amount of people, I would think that it would be very very very very rare for anyone to have ever come across a Jedi before, even at the time of the prequels.
 

g00n

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I thought of this too, but with 1.5 million planets in the empire and that amount of people, I would think that it would be very very very very rare for anyone to have ever come across a Jedi before, even at the time of the prequels.

Yet smuggler and bounty hunter reputations as well as spy communications seem to permeate the SW universe. So I have to believe that planet-killing factions run by renegade Jedis would get some attention. Whether or not people believe in the Force part of it might be another matter without firsthand knowledge, which is what I think you're saying. Secondhand testimony should be plentiful, though.
 

strungout

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Not to mention...they were all wiped out (aside from Yoda and Kenobi who went into hiding)....and Vader of course.

Rey is supposed to be 20ish....so she would have no idea about any of it since it was 60 years ago when those two and the rest of the Jedi were killed off....and she's living on such a remote planet as it is...and all the records of the Jedi and the force were suppressed by the Empire and now First Order.

She knows about Luke....because he helped with defeating the Empire....but the rest of it...in that world...is total myth.

Im sure the ones in the clone wars passed stuff on to their kids...but it fades away when they are all gone. Out of sight out of mind.
 

HunterSThompson

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Yet smuggler and bounty hunter reputations as well as spy communications seem to permeate the SW universe. So I have to believe that planet-killing factions run by renegade Jedis would get some attention. Whether or not people believe in the Force part of it might be another matter without firsthand knowledge, which is what I think you're saying. Secondhand testimony should be plentiful, though.

Yes the force part of it.

BTW the more I hear about it, the more I like the Ren [spoil]"secret agent"[/spoil] theory
 

g00n

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dunno about that Ren theory. Seems kinda cheap and improbable. Not impossible. Hell, I'm still holding out hope that Han survived somehow. yeah yeah...I know
 

HunterSThompson

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dunno about that Ren theory. Seems kinda cheap and improbable. Not impossible. Hell, I'm still holding out hope that Han survived somehow. yeah yeah...I know

Maybe improbable, but the lazy way would be to make Luke try to turn him back to the light just like the originals. This would be at least different than that.
 

strungout

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Another thing I keep getting hung up on...not sure if it even means anything....but Rey's british accent. If she is indeed Luke's daughter...must have come from the mother...right? Perhaps Kenobi linage?

Unless its a Jakku thing....which is in the Inner Rim.
 

HunterSThompson

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Another thing I keep getting hung up on...not sure if it even means anything....but Rey's british accent. If she is indeed Luke's daughter...must have come from the mother...right? Perhaps Kenobi linage?

Unless its a Jakku thing....which is in the Inner Rim.

Kenobi lineage is what I thought especially after realizing it was ewan macgregor's and Alec Guiness's voices in the flashback. But wouldn't her age mean that she was conceived pretty close in time with Obi Wan's death. Could be granddaughter I guess, or some other branch.
 

hockeykicker

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i was wondering if someone picked up on this: there was a part where rey was a kid and someone was being flown away with her watching it. who is that person?

strangely after seeing that, i thought when kylo removed his mask that he would be the one she was looking for
 

strungout

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i was wondering if someone picked up on this: there was a part where rey was a kid and someone was being flown away with her watching it. who is that person?

strangely after seeing that, i thought when kylo removed his mask that he would be the one she was looking for
It's unkar platt... The dude that Rey was selling parts to for food and the owner of the Falcon.you can see his had a hear his accent (which is British)

I just watched it again. :)
 

strungout

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Watching it a second time...totally get the vibe that Kylo knows Rey...or at least knows there was girl that would cause him problems from the past.

The scene where she pulled the "you're scared you won't be as powerful as Darth Vader." line was so good. I missed her saying Vaders name the first time...just the scared part..

I also wonder about Rey's name. Is it really her name? That would have thrown Han and Leia off a bit in terms of not knowing she was their daughter (perhaps they thought she was dead)...even though Leia does seem to have a connection to her as if she knows her. Plus I doubt they'd want to save Ben if they figured he offed the sister. So I'm back off the sister angle...and seeing Luke's eyes swell up at the end (could see it better in 3D)...gotta be his daughter...right?

It kinda gets better with each viewing. Going again Friday.
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

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Watching it a second time...totally get the vibe that Kylo knows Rey...or at least knows there was girl that would cause him problems from the past.

The scene where she pulled the "you're scared you won't be as powerful as Darth Vader." line was so good. I missed her saying Vaders name the first time...just the scared part..

I also wonder about Rey's name. Is it really her name? That would have thrown Han and Leia off a bit in terms of not knowing she was their daughter (perhaps they thought she was dead)...even though Leia does seem to have a connection to her as if she knows her. Plus I doubt they'd want to save Ben if they figured he offed the sister. So I'm back off the sister angle...and seeing Luke's eyes swell up at the end (could see it better in 3D)...gotta be his daughter...right?

It kinda gets better with each viewing. Going again Friday.
On the Luke's daughter thing, I've seen mentioned elsewhere that he appeared to have been facing a headstone when she first saw him. Her mother, perhaps?
 

CapitalsCupReality

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dunno about that Ren theory. Seems kinda cheap and improbable. Not impossible. Hell, I'm still holding out hope that Han survived somehow. yeah yeah...I know

I was joking with a buddy. Lando was floating down in the mist in a cloud car and caught him. I mean technically we never saw a body, but I think Harrison Ford wanted out.
 

strungout

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On the Luke's daughter thing, I've seen mentioned elsewhere that he appeared to have been facing a headstone when she first saw him. Her mother, perhaps?
I watched specifically for that headstone this time around...its just a rock sticking up out of the ground.

Now...the fire when Luke touches R2 in Rey's flashback...I'm going with that being where Luke is sending the wife and the dead Jedi off the way he sent Vader off. Especially since it as raining when they were all axed.

Its just nice having Star Wars back to theorize about.
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

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There was one seeming throwaway line of Han's that got me thinking. When he was telling Rey and Finn about Luke and the Force, he said something to the effect of it being a battle between "good and evil; the dark side and the light". Now I'm guessing the line just sounded better in that order, but I'm wondering if it might have been intentional, and they might delve into more gray areas--where dark side stuff (passion, emotion, etc.) is good and light side stuff (detachment, apathy), can be bad.

I really need to see it again, and 18 months is too long for VIII.
 

Chimaera

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I wouldn't be shocked if Rey was at the flip of Ben and the killings. Whether she is related or not who knows, it's probable but not a have to.

Maybe Luke wiped memories of her from everyone except like Maz (who can tell by the eyes) and she's Bens younger sister.

It also could be part of the Leia sent him away, and they did that with their other child wiping out the memory so Snoke couldn't find her after it he took Ben.
 

Calicaps

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Hi folks! Back again after more family loss...

Is it 2016 yet?

Saw the new film on Monday. Really thought it was great. Agree with most of what NBTW posted on page 1.

One thing I really noticed was the alignment between the way young Anniken was portrayed (however awful the movies may have been) and Kylo. Tantrum-throwing rage monsters both. And we know what really adult Anniken was capable of... A nice little salvaging of the horrid prequels.

My two main beefs were:

The ending was a needless cliffhanger. The original trilogy did a great job of standing alone while also leaving enough open to feed the next film. This was silly.

And the film was a bit impatient. Recall the scene of Luke dragging a dying Vader to his ship at the end of Jedi. Slow, dramatic. Here, Snoke tells the general to get Ren and come to him and then the planet blows up before that could possibly have occurred. But of course we know Ren must have survived. What was the rush.

Overall, tho, really entertaining and true to the spirit of the original trilogy.
 

Zoidberg Jesus

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Sort of OT, but I saw the movie yesterday at the Udvar-Hazy IMAX theater, and I ended up getting stuck in the 2nd row. Worst movie watching experience I've ever had. My eyes hurt by the end of the previews, and I was craning my neck the entire time, and turning it to see the sides of the screen. Anything that spanned the screen from top to bottom looked distorted. Why do those first few rows exist if the movie is borderline unwatchable from there? I can't believe I paid $15 dollars for such an awful seat.

If you look at the movies in order starting with IV, you have three out of the last four chronological movies dealing with the same basic plot (plucky, improbable rebel force launches dogfight and blows up planet thingy with big gun by finding flaw in design). Jedi tread that throwback ground, and this movie-- the next in the series--not only harkens back to the original but pretty much rehashes it with some character shuffling. Menace tried to launch the prequels in similar fashion with a few "the more things change" parallels, but this one is practically a remake.

The homages were nice at the start, but holy **** did it feel like a re-skinned Episode IV by the end.

Young adult without parents living on a desert planet doesn't know that they're a force user, finds a droid on the run from the Empire because it has an important map, and gets dragged off the planet on the Millenium Falcon and into an intergalactic conflict between the rebellion and the empire (this time they go to a cantina to find a ship after getting off the planet instead of before). Guy in a leather jacket tries to run away from the fight but ends up coming back. Old mentor type guy gets light-sabered by Dark Helmet. The empire has a big spherical base that fires lasers to destroy planets, but it's got a weak spot that can be exploited by a pretty small group of X-Wings. Dark Helmet gets defeated at the end, but in a way that doesn't do any lasting damage and allows him to return later.

I thought Driver was terrible. Everyone saying his character is "pained" and "complicated," but all I got was Hayden Christensen 2.0. Literally saying you're in pain and seeking help in your Vader-shrine don't characterize you as conflicted so much as a pubescent teenager.

From the moment Kylo took his helmet off, everything the character did made him less intimidating and harder to take seriously as a villain. Especially that final fight. Finn's first experience with a lightsaber was him getting his ass kicked by a random stormtrooper. I know Kylo's a little hurt, but he was fine enough to somehow beat Finn and Rey to that forest (which didn't really make sense even if he was perfectly fine... Finn and Rey had a big head start, and they both must've headed in the same direction, so Kylo would've had to loop around somewhere to avoid being seen). I was expecting Kylo to wipe the floor with Finn there, but Finn fared better in that fight than against the stormtrooper. And then Rey wakes up from being knocked unconscious and beats him despite never having used a lightsaber before. This is feeling like Boba Fett again, where all of his credibility as a badass comes from the cool looking costume rather than actually doing badass things on screen. Making Kylo look and act like an emo teenager definitely doesn't help either. Dunno whether to blame Driver or the writers, but I think I'm leaning towards the writers.

Honestly, are there any good villains in this movie? Kylo is a mess. General Hux seems more like a guy walking on eggshells hoping not to get himself executed than a competent or intimidating villain. Captain Phasma is Boba Fett all over again, and her only contribution to the story is to roll over for the heroes (She's gotta be executed for that, right? If she refuses to lower the shields, the trilogy's over. Given the ridiculous standards stormtroopers are held to, there's no way that goes unpunished. But apparently she's got a bigger role in the next films, so I guess she's getting off for some reason). And Snoke has done nothing but talk and look ugly. I think it's going to be a challenge for the next episode to make one of these villains actually seem compelling and threatening.

Maybe I'll like it more when I see it without being in constant pain for the duration of the movie. But my first impression was pretty meh.
 
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