OT: Official HFCaps STAR WARS Episode 7 Discussion (Warning: may contain E7 spoilers)
- Thread starter Hivemind
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strungout
Professional Killer
Agreed. JJ did exactly what was needed to be done. It was the perfect movie to undo the prequels and set up the next two.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
Saw Episode VII this morning. Loved it.
High cheese factor at points, but no more than Episode IV, and it's more charming than cringe-worthy, IMO.
Somebody should start a Discussion w/ spoilers thread.
High cheese factor at points, but no more than Episode IV, and it's more charming than cringe-worthy, IMO.
Somebody should start a Discussion w/ spoilers thread.
artilector
Registered User
- Jan 11, 2006
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Saw the new Star Wars yesterday.
Aside from a couple of redeeming things, thought it was pretty bad. In fact, terrible until Harrison Ford showed up and gave the movie some life. The girl is also not bad, there is something interesting about her. Black stormtrooper guy is a joke. Emo/goth Vader-lite is a joke. Hot shot pilot... maybe, but did not really have a chance.
Script -- pass (rehashing old stuff, which I guess was the point), dialogue -- terrible (or blockbuster standard). Effects -- standard. Overall -- on the level of the first two Lucas prequels.
There is still some potential -- just kill off the black stormtrooper, the goth Vader, and Abrams.
Aside from a couple of redeeming things, thought it was pretty bad. In fact, terrible until Harrison Ford showed up and gave the movie some life. The girl is also not bad, there is something interesting about her. Black stormtrooper guy is a joke. Emo/goth Vader-lite is a joke. Hot shot pilot... maybe, but did not really have a chance.
Script -- pass (rehashing old stuff, which I guess was the point), dialogue -- terrible (or blockbuster standard). Effects -- standard. Overall -- on the level of the first two Lucas prequels.
There is still some potential -- just kill off the black stormtrooper, the goth Vader, and Abrams.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
Interesting take. I can see some of the arguments - Particularly Finn, who had too much forced comic relief dialogue.
I think you're giving the prequels far too much credit. This is way above them, I'd say on the level with IV, but below V and VI.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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Bad?! Come on....it wasn't bad.
I saw it last night. I wanted to love it more, but I didn't. Still one of the best movies of the year, but the top spot for me goes to The Martian.
A little too much rehashing of the old in this one. JJ did the same thing in Star Trek, but paid tribute to the old much more effectively in Star Trek than he did Star Wars IMO.
I saw it last night. I wanted to love it more, but I didn't. Still one of the best movies of the year, but the top spot for me goes to The Martian.
A little too much rehashing of the old in this one. JJ did the same thing in Star Trek, but paid tribute to the old much more effectively in Star Trek than he did Star Wars IMO.
sycamore
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2010
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This really does seem to be a very polarizing movie. Seems like a small majority (like 60-70%) liked it, but there is a large minority who hated it. I suspect this last group are totally unfamiliar with the prequels 
Personally, I liked it, a lot. In fact I think it could have been a GREAT movie, if only the ending had had more "oomph".
Personally, I liked it, a lot. In fact I think it could have been a GREAT movie, if only the ending had had more "oomph".
Hivemind
We're Touched
I don't think it's THAT polarizing. I just think there's a subset of the population who assumes anyone with criticism must have hated the movie, and who gets upset whenever the criticism is shared. Most people I found have liked it.
Also, being better than the prequels isn't a high bar. Not really sure how that plays into the discussion at all. There's also the point that the immediate reactions to episode 1 were also positive (go look at all the news reel footage of people coming out of the theater and calling it amazing).
Also, being better than the prequels isn't a high bar. Not really sure how that plays into the discussion at all. There's also the point that the immediate reactions to episode 1 were also positive (go look at all the news reel footage of people coming out of the theater and calling it amazing).
strungout
Professional Killer
Well.. I'm a fan. Long time one. But this episode left me thinking "it was nice". A little bit charming, yeah.
But blockbuster? No ****ing way. Lacking true action.
Maybe I'm too old for that now?
Actually, I've read 30-40 books and some of them were good. The Thrawn Trilogy is awesome by my recollection. If they'd make it like that... that will be a gold mine forever.
Also, kind of reminds me The Hobbit. Very slow start. Gimme your money type.
Williams is awesome. Ep 1 soundtrack was very good. That was a good movie.
But blockbuster? No ****ing way. Lacking true action.
Maybe I'm too old for that now?
Actually, I've read 30-40 books and some of them were good. The Thrawn Trilogy is awesome by my recollection. If they'd make it like that... that will be a gold mine forever.
Also, kind of reminds me The Hobbit. Very slow start. Gimme your money type.
Williams is awesome. Ep 1 soundtrack was very good. That was a good movie.
AtNightWeFly
You better run.
What is it with people and Star Wars? I'm trying to understand this obsession but I cant come up with anything. 
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
- 30,620
- 14,707
Ok, just saw it which means we have someone able to mod a thread about it if need be. So here we are.
If you look at the movies in order starting with IV, you have three out of the last four chronological movies dealing with the same basic plot (plucky, improbable rebel force launches dogfight and blows up planet thingy with big gun by finding flaw in design). Jedi tread that throwback ground, and this movie-- the next in the series--not only harkens back to the original but pretty much rehashes it with some character shuffling. Menace tried to launch the prequels in similar fashion with a few "the more things change" parallels, but this one is practically a remake.
That said, I liked it overall and it may grow on me more. The acting and directing were superior to the prequels without a doubt. But the plot almost never had me wondering what would happen next. Because I've seen it before.
My hope is that this movie simply set the stage for greater develoment. It's an introduction to the new characters, imo, with some nostalgia for legitimacy. But it will be hard to get older fans like myself to feel the same way about the new characters. The original was about a nobody farmboy who embarked on an adventure to save the universe. We latched onto him and everyone he met, so what happened afterward seemed epic and important. Han's "I know" at the end of Empire and Chewy's howl...these were cutting scenes made possible due to ONE movie's impact. This movie has 6 behind it. I'm not sure if that's working for or against it (nostalgia vs baggage).
I guess we'll see.
If you look at the movies in order starting with IV, you have three out of the last four chronological movies dealing with the same basic plot (plucky, improbable rebel force launches dogfight and blows up planet thingy with big gun by finding flaw in design). Jedi tread that throwback ground, and this movie-- the next in the series--not only harkens back to the original but pretty much rehashes it with some character shuffling. Menace tried to launch the prequels in similar fashion with a few "the more things change" parallels, but this one is practically a remake.
That said, I liked it overall and it may grow on me more. The acting and directing were superior to the prequels without a doubt. But the plot almost never had me wondering what would happen next. Because I've seen it before.
My hope is that this movie simply set the stage for greater develoment. It's an introduction to the new characters, imo, with some nostalgia for legitimacy. But it will be hard to get older fans like myself to feel the same way about the new characters. The original was about a nobody farmboy who embarked on an adventure to save the universe. We latched onto him and everyone he met, so what happened afterward seemed epic and important. Han's "I know" at the end of Empire and Chewy's howl...these were cutting scenes made possible due to ONE movie's impact. This movie has 6 behind it. I'm not sure if that's working for or against it (nostalgia vs baggage).
I guess we'll see.
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Pretty much! I think some are looking at the original trilogy with rose colored glasses.My SO and I really loved it.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
Go back and evaluate ANH from a 'quality of filmmaking' perspective and it doesn't come off well. Dialogue was terrible and Hammill was horrid. But that's not what Star Wars is about. It's campy epic space fantasy with a fantastic universe.
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
Some thoughts on TFA:
-Goosebumps when "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" popped on the screen turned into a giddy fanboy squeal when the score kicked in with the receding STAR WARS
-Daisy Ridley (Rey), Adam Driver (Kylo Ren), and Oscar Isaac (Poe Dameron) were all really good, IMO. John Boyega (Finn) was okay, and I think hurt by the script. As I said before, he seemed to be the non-droid comic relief character, and it came off forced. He didn't have much chemistry with Ridley or Harrison Ford. It's a shame, because a conflicted former Storm Trooper is a really good starting place for a new character.
-The portion from when Rey and Finn meet through Han coming in was easily the weakest part of the movie. No chemistry at all. The scene on the freighter was a bit 'meh', but I thought the movie hit its stride after that.
-The re-hashing of the "destroy the deadly space station by attacking the one weakness" was a bit lazy, and the execution (one X-wing squadron and four people with a bag of explosives taking down a planet-sized Death Star) even lazier. The ease of it is by far my biggest complaint beyond Boyega's character.
-Loved how they did Kylo Ren/emo-Vader. Obviously a misguided brat driven by rage and spite. None of the cool discipline and total control real Vader had. I hope they don't go with the lame redemption story arc with him (unless it's the double agent the whole time thing that some are speculating).
-Harrison Ford's aged Han Solo was perfect, and I like how they did the bridge scene.
-With Rey, they're either going full circle back to the original trilogy and she and Ren are twins a l Luke and Leia, or she was one of Luke's young apprentices they mentioned that they hid from Ren's rampaging. That's my guess, anyway. Why else would Leia hug a girl she's never met when mourning Han and send her to find Luke?
-Couldn't have ended the movie with a better scene, IMO. Introduce Luke any earlier, and he dominates the plot.
-Carrie Fisher sounded terrible, like she's been smoking since ROTJ.
Overall, I thought it was a good homage to the original and a fitting reboot. I suspect they'l go a little less campy and repetitive with the sequels.
-Goosebumps when "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" popped on the screen turned into a giddy fanboy squeal when the score kicked in with the receding STAR WARS
-Daisy Ridley (Rey), Adam Driver (Kylo Ren), and Oscar Isaac (Poe Dameron) were all really good, IMO. John Boyega (Finn) was okay, and I think hurt by the script. As I said before, he seemed to be the non-droid comic relief character, and it came off forced. He didn't have much chemistry with Ridley or Harrison Ford. It's a shame, because a conflicted former Storm Trooper is a really good starting place for a new character.
-The portion from when Rey and Finn meet through Han coming in was easily the weakest part of the movie. No chemistry at all. The scene on the freighter was a bit 'meh', but I thought the movie hit its stride after that.
-The re-hashing of the "destroy the deadly space station by attacking the one weakness" was a bit lazy, and the execution (one X-wing squadron and four people with a bag of explosives taking down a planet-sized Death Star) even lazier. The ease of it is by far my biggest complaint beyond Boyega's character.
-Loved how they did Kylo Ren/emo-Vader. Obviously a misguided brat driven by rage and spite. None of the cool discipline and total control real Vader had. I hope they don't go with the lame redemption story arc with him (unless it's the double agent the whole time thing that some are speculating).
-Harrison Ford's aged Han Solo was perfect, and I like how they did the bridge scene.
-With Rey, they're either going full circle back to the original trilogy and she and Ren are twins a l Luke and Leia, or she was one of Luke's young apprentices they mentioned that they hid from Ren's rampaging. That's my guess, anyway. Why else would Leia hug a girl she's never met when mourning Han and send her to find Luke?
-Couldn't have ended the movie with a better scene, IMO. Introduce Luke any earlier, and he dominates the plot.
-Carrie Fisher sounded terrible, like she's been smoking since ROTJ.
Overall, I thought it was a good homage to the original and a fitting reboot. I suspect they'l go a little less campy and repetitive with the sequels.
Hivemind
We're Touched
I thought Driver was terrible. Everyone saying his character is "pained" and "complicated," but all I got was Hayden Christensen 2.0. Literally saying you're in pain and seeking help in your Vader-shrine don't characterize you as conflicted so much as a pubescent teenager.
Or there are legitimate criticisms of the film. I liked it enough to see it twice, but it was far from flawless. I happen to agree, pretty strongly, with the most cited criticism, that it was essentially a rehashing of what we saw in Episode IV (with a bit of V and VI thrown in). JJ does what JJ always does, and that's regurgitate knowing nods to previous pop culture. While in many ways a return to Star Wars' roots, and a return to what Star Wars does best, was needed, this movie felt as much like fan service as anything else. It was a love letter to the original trilogy first and foremost, and a new movie only secondly.
Or there are legitimate criticisms of the film. I liked it enough to see it twice, but it was far from flawless. I happen to agree, pretty strongly, with the most cited criticism, that it was essentially a rehashing of what we saw in Episode IV (with a bit of V and VI thrown in). JJ does what JJ always does, and that's regurgitate knowing nods to previous pop culture. While in many ways a return to Star Wars' roots, and a return to what Star Wars does best, was needed, this movie felt as much like fan service as anything else. It was a love letter to the original trilogy first and foremost, and a new movie only secondly.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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For those of us that grew up as kids seeing the originals, none of these will ever live up to what we felt then.
For me the scene at the end was the only moment I got chills. They waited too long.
Would be interesting if Rey was Luke's daughter...
For me the scene at the end was the only moment I got chills. They waited too long.
Would be interesting if Rey was Luke's daughter...
strungout
Professional Killer
I thought Driver was fantastic. Comparing his acting to anything from the prequels isn't even close. When he started beating his wound?! That was fantastic stuff whoevers idea that was. He's supposed to be a confused brat. That's the whole point of his character. Anakin should have been more stable...Kylo isn't stable. I thought he acted it perfectly.
Daisy Ridley is fantastic in her role. The scene when she wouldn't let Kylo in and then realized he was actually scared...when the force switch flipped...so good. And the lightsaber fight??? Best one yet from any movie.
The Captian Phasma role was the only letdown. Needed more from her...and letting the shields down that easily?? Lame. It fit the comedy they wanted there, but it was weak for that supposed bad ass character.
Daisy Ridley is fantastic in her role. The scene when she wouldn't let Kylo in and then realized he was actually scared...when the force switch flipped...so good. And the lightsaber fight??? Best one yet from any movie.
The Captian Phasma role was the only letdown. Needed more from her...and letting the shields down that easily?? Lame. It fit the comedy they wanted there, but it was weak for that supposed bad ass character.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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But that’s not all of the cameos and appearances found in The Force Awakens. Others include:
- Simon Pegg plays the alien scavenger Unkar Plutt, who Rey sells her salvage to on Jakku.
- Comedians Bill Hader and Ben Schwartz provided the voice of BB-8.
- Daniel Craig plays the stormtrooper who was mind-tricked by Rey.
- Billie Lourd, Carrie Fisher’s daughter, plays a member of the resistance.
- Some members of the cast of Star Wars: Clone Wars—Tom Kane, Meredith Salenger, Catherine Taber, Sam Witwer, Matt Lanter, James Arnold Taber, and director Dave Filoni—provided currently unknown voice work.
- Kevin Smith provides a currently unknown voice.
- Simon Pegg plays the alien scavenger Unkar Plutt, who Rey sells her salvage to on Jakku.
- Comedians Bill Hader and Ben Schwartz provided the voice of BB-8.
- Daniel Craig plays the stormtrooper who was mind-tricked by Rey.
- Billie Lourd, Carrie Fisher’s daughter, plays a member of the resistance.
- Some members of the cast of Star Wars: Clone Wars—Tom Kane, Meredith Salenger, Catherine Taber, Sam Witwer, Matt Lanter, James Arnold Taber, and director Dave Filoni—provided currently unknown voice work.
- Kevin Smith provides a currently unknown voice.
Hivemind
We're Touched
I don't really consider the beating of the armor acting. It was a cool shot, but it was just cutting away to him hitting himself and blood falling. Heck, for half of it could have been a body double and we wouldn't have known any better.
I don't see why Ren should be any more unstable than Anakin. The whole point of Ren is that he has "too much Vader in him." Anakin was a confused teenager driven mad by his pubescent emotions conflicting with the dogmatic Jedi regime. He was supposed to be conflicted just as much as Ren.
The bottom line is I don't think Driver pulled it off very well. While most of the dialogue was improved compared to the prequels, I don't really feel his unmasked dialogue was. Too many "this is how I feel right now" comments. He had to blurt out what he was feeling compared to showing us what he was feeling.
I don't see why Ren should be any more unstable than Anakin. The whole point of Ren is that he has "too much Vader in him." Anakin was a confused teenager driven mad by his pubescent emotions conflicting with the dogmatic Jedi regime. He was supposed to be conflicted just as much as Ren.
The bottom line is I don't think Driver pulled it off very well. While most of the dialogue was improved compared to the prequels, I don't really feel his unmasked dialogue was. Too many "this is how I feel right now" comments. He had to blurt out what he was feeling compared to showing us what he was feeling.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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hb12xchamps
Registered User
I thought the movie was just okay. Definitely want to see it again after watching all the previous films. My biggest flaws with it were already mentioned. Seemed like the same plot/remake but I think it was done purposely to connect to a wider audience and set up the next few films.
The whole not knowing who Rey really is part of the movie is one of the best ideas of the film. It leaves you wondering once the next film comes and Luke is reintroduced. I'm with CapitalsCupFantasy where I think she's Luke's daughter but no one knows but him
The whole not knowing who Rey really is part of the movie is one of the best ideas of the film. It leaves you wondering once the next film comes and Luke is reintroduced. I'm with CapitalsCupFantasy where I think she's Luke's daughter but no one knows but him
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
sycamore
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2010
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Because of the British Accent. Some have even suggested she might be Palpatine's daughter!
One thing is for sure I intend to avoid as MUCH as possible with Episode 8. Even watching some of the teasers and trailers for this one kind of lessened the impact of the movie. I want to go into Episode 8 as innocent as possible. Its being directed by one of the hottest directors in Hollywood (Rian Johnson) so its in good hands, and that's all I need to know.
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