Offer Sheet Targets

[General Fanager]

Guy doesn't have the courage to trade for the top 6 winger we have needed since he was hired, he sure as hell wouldn't have the courage to piss off the other GM's by offer sheeting one of their players. He's a coward. So afraid of losing his job, he isn't doing his job.

1. Its been well reported that he made at least 2 major offers this year alone. Both of which he thought were too much to offer and both were rejected. Maybe he could have added more and gotten those deals done but then the media and guys like you would be here tearing him up for paying too much.

2. Maybe messing around with offer sheets isnt too smart right now considering Chuck and Beau will be RFA next summer.

3. You cant just run around and offer guys tons of money. there is a cap and your own players you need to worry about. Chuck and beau next summer, Price the year after that and Patch soon after that.

 

[Video Coach]

You sign Kucherov 7.3 mil for 5 years.

Galchenyuk and Beaulieu will become RFA the season after...what money will you have to sign them?

Especially after Yzerman comes back and signs them to an offer sheet...we try to take Kucherov, they'll definitely try to take Galchenyuk

 

[Chadstudsky]

A lot of talk about the future so far. At some point we need to talk about the present while our core is in their prime. If we never go all in we will always be a middle of the pack team.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

When was the last offersheet in the NHL anyway, Weber with PHI?

I'd be curious to see how much a GM's rep is affected following an OS. I would assume if his rep was affected, his trade ratio would go down.

 

[BLONG7]

It's generally a gentleman's agreement among GMs. You don't mess with my RFAs/salary cap and I don't mess with yours. These are the people you have to deal with on a daily basis as far as making trades go, so it makes sense to try and keep them in your good graces.

Call Bergevin a coward all you want, but were the 29 other GMs cowards for not offer sheeting Subban, even when he was holding out?

Of course I'd be all for ruthlessly offer sheeting guys like Kucherov or Hoffman if the price was right...but I also understand why GMs don't generally engage in the practice.

Exactly, if you try to poach one of theirs, you may lose someone on your own team? Try to get Hoffman? Be ready for them to try and get Chucky?

Seems like all of the GM's hold each other in a high regard, and don't want to go there, just in case...

 

[BLONG7]

When was the last offersheet in the NHL anyway, Weber with PHI?

I'd be curious to see how much a GM's rep is affected following an OS. I would assume if his rep was affected, his trade ratio would go down.

That one was insane...Weber made out like a bandit...all thanks to Philly...

 

[jaffy27]

When was the last offersheet in the NHL anyway, Weber with PHI?

I'd be curious to see how much a GM's rep is affected following an OS. I would assume if his rep was affected, his trade ratio would go down.

Calgary with O'Reilly?

 

[Le Barron de HF]

FWIW, here are the list of GMs who offersheeted players since the new millenium

Holmgren (Weber & Kesler)
Lowe (Penner & Vanek)
Gillis (Backes)
Armstrong (Bernier)
Wilson (Hjalmarsson)
Feaster (ROR)

What's noteworthy is that two of them did it very early or with very little experience in their General Manager gigs (Holmgren & Gillis). Only one of them was related to a GM taking his 'revenge' if you will (Armstrong). FWIW, Holmgren was trigger happy as far as trades go. Wilson didn't get ****ed over after his. Gillis is an interesting one since he was reportedly extremely cocky and on bad terms with certain GMs, personally, I don't think the OS played a big factor here and more Gillis' personality.

The way I see it, you do what's best for your team. Who cares if Dorion hates us, he manages a team that's a rival. It's not like we're going to do a lot of business with the Sens in the first place. I don't think other GMs care a whole lot about a GM offersheeting someone's RFA. At the end of the day, all they care about is making their own team better and they won't stop talking or negotiating with a GM just because they felt what he did was 'cheap'.

 

[Sorinth]

I've never understood why GMs are so gentlemanly in not sending offer sheets to young impact players. An Offer sheet of 5.4 to 7.3m costs a team a 1st 2nd and 3rd. That may seem like a lot, but how many 1sts actually become top line players?

Add that canadian markets always need to pay a little more to attract free agents, so offer sheets somewhat level the playing field.

These players are also able to step in immediately and make an impact, which is key for a team like us who are playoff contenders when healthy.

Worst case scenario the team wil match, and you just made a rival pay more than he would normally have.

So are you for or against offer sheets? Who would you target?

I would send a 7.3m offer sheet to Kucherov, 1st line winger capable of a PPG perhaps even next year. Don't tell me that a 1st 2nd and 3rd is worth more than a 22 year old top 10 winger!

Thoughts?

First off, we only know about the offer sheets that a player sign, there are likely a few sent out that the player rejects and we never hear about.

Second, the biggest reason is that it doesn't work. Teams will almost always match the offer, so if you aren't getting the player anyways what's the point of making the offer?

That's the entire flaw with offer sheets, if you think it's a steal to only give up a 1st, 2nd & 3rd for player X then clearly the other team will match because it's not enough value for that player. That's one of the reasons Toronto traded for Kessel, if they had simply given him an offer sheet for what they signed him too Boston would have matched.

 

[Sorinth]

FWIW, here are the list of GMs who offersheeted players since the new millenium

Holmgren (Weber & Kesler)
Lowe (Penner & Vanek)
Gillis (Backes)
Armstrong (Bernier)
Wilson (Hjalmarsson)
Feaster (ROR)

What's noteworthy is that two of them did it very early or with very little experience in their General Manager gigs (Holmgren & Gillis). Only one of them was related to a GM taking his 'revenge' if you will (Armstrong). FWIW, Holmgren was trigger happy as far as trades go. Wilson didn't get ****ed over after his. Gillis is an interesting one since he was reportedly extremely cocky and on bad terms with certain GMs, personally, I don't think the OS played a big factor here and more Gillis' personality.

The way I see it, you do what's best for your team. Who cares if Dorion hates us, he manages a team that's a rival. It's not like we're going to do a lot of business with the Sens in the first place. I don't think other GMs care a whole lot about a GM offersheeting someone's RFA. At the end of the day, all they care about is making their own team better and they won't stop talking or negotiating with a GM just because they felt what he did was 'cheap'.

Those are only the offers that the player accepted. We don't know how many offer sheets were made where the player said no. For instance Subban was rumored to have been the recipient to an offer sheet but said no. Maybe it's true maybe it's not but we'd never know.

 

[Habsrule]

I say no to offer sheeting someone. Galchenyuk will be able to be offer sheeted after next year. You know the saying.....paybacks a _________.

 

[Chili]

I say no to offer sheeting someone. Galchenyuk will be able to be offer sheeted after next year. You know the saying.....paybacks a _________.

Exactly.

There are other reasons but this is the main one in my opinion why we don't see more. Nothing is forgotten...I remember Burke when he was Ducks GM the offer sheet with the Oilers and was it Dustin Penner?

Most times teams just match so what's the point?

And if you're overpaying for a player outside your organization what message does that send to your own players? They will want you to ante up for them as well.

Someone else made the point as well, the only ones we hear about are when a deal is reached. How many are discussed that never get that far? The deal still has to make sense for your team.

 

[Born in 1909]

NOBODY has the courage to do that.... I like how you single out Bergevin like it was a common thing...what a ****ing joke!

Two letters: H F

 

[Brainiac]

Call Bergevin a coward all you want, but were the 29 other GMs cowards for not offer sheeting Subban, even when he was holding out?

I remember reading somewhere that Subban had offersheets on the table, but decided not to look at them.

Also, people just assume that RFAs are sort of obliged to sign an offersheet. When actually, the offersheet remains completely off the record if the player doesn't sign.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Having a "successful" offer sheet also needs to the player to "want" to leave. Weber certainly made his thoughts known. But Poile matched, and Weber couldn't anything afterwards.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I remember reading somewhere that Subban had offersheets on the table, but decided not to look at them.

Also, people just assume that RFAs are sort of obliged to sign an offersheet. When actually, the offersheet remains completely off the record if the player doesn't sign.

We're lucky Subban was a loyal player who wanted to stay. But Bergevin was gonna go on the warpath against him for whatever reason. Nickel and dime him while being ****ing Mr. Generous to others.

 

[Chili]

I have heard David Poile say that the biggest mistake he made as a gm was letting Scott Stevens walk for 5 first round picks.

It certainly had an effect on his thinking with Weber but I'm sure it influenced others as well.

By the time any of those picks are helping your team (if ever) a gm could be fired.

 

[Corncob]

I however think we can mostly agree that the drawback of offer sheets is not the lost draft picks. Because the asset returning is greater than the picks. I think we can agree that pissing off other GMs is the drawback. And IMO canadian markets should use this to their advantage in attracting elite players, in the same way that american markets have the advantage when signing UFAs (taxes, weather, media attention..)

No the drawback is that you have to actually pay the player the money you offer them.

As you, by definition, have to offer enough to make it not worthwhile the original team matching that means that, all other things being equal, you end up with a player who is getting paid more than they are realistically worth and you have to sacrifice assets for the privilege.

Also not sure why you think 'taxes, weather, media attention' are factors in players choosing where to sign as a UFA but not choosing where to sign as an RFA.

 

[LastWordArmy]

I'm not a fan of the offer sheet route... you have to overpay the player (or the other team matches), and the compensation is based entirely on the cap hit.

So not only is the player's cap hit gonna be worth more than his value.... the draft picks you give up are also based on an inflated value. Its just too prohibitive.

Probably why we dont see many offer sheets.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Not worth it. Too expensive.

 

[scrubadam]

If we offer sheets were common what would be the point of having restricted free agents?

RFA status allows teams to develop and hold onto their homegrown talent. If all GM's sent out offer sheets young players salaries would spiral out of control, and more than half the league would become a developmental league for the top teams. Teams like the leafs and rangers would offer sheet all the good young players right after their ELC's expire and the poorer (worse) teams wouldn't be able to match.

 

[Team_Spirit]

no money availaible. Galchenyuk contract year ect....

 

[SirClintonPortis]

If we offer sheets were common what would be the point of having restricted free agents?

RFA status allows teams to develop and hold onto their homegrown talent. If all GM's sent out offer sheets young players salaries would spiral out of control, and more than half the league would become a developmental league for the top teams. Teams like the leafs and rangers would offer sheet all the good young players right after their ELC's expire and the poorer (worse) teams wouldn't be able to match.

Players don't always sign offer sheets. We never know how many offer sheets never got anywhere because the player doesn't want to leave. Just the ones that do, like Shea Weber.

 

[MXD]

Players don't always sign offer sheets. We never know how many offer sheets never got anywhere because the player doesn't want to leave. Just the ones that do, like Shea Weber.

.... Or just because the offer isn't deemed good enough.

 

[LastWordArmy]

If we offer sheets were common what would be the point of having restricted free agents?

RFA status allows teams to develop and hold onto their homegrown talent. If all GM's sent out offer sheets young players salaries would spiral out of control, and more than half the league would become a developmental league for the top teams. Teams like the leafs and rangers would offer sheet all the good young players right after their ELC's expire and the poorer (worse) teams wouldn't be able to match.

You know there is a salary cap now right?