Off season news & stuff

[Beltv]

Yeah Dallas has 4 more wins in the playoffs in that time. Amazing work by Nill with a young core compared to Holland who was dealing with the complete decline and disintegration of his core.

And I'm sure Holland would completely fumble building around Stamkos and Hedman, after all he has an extensive track record of not building winning around elite core players

Yzerman has been able to sign some pretty darn good players to good contracts though. He may not have been able to draft their top end talent but lets be real. He has kept it all together. There is no reason they shouldn't make playoffs with that roster. That's not on Stevie. You and I both know that. Nill came in and made moves and improved a team right away. They both have teams going in the opposite direction as ours.

 

[Pavels Dog]

So, what's his plan to acquire elite players again?
Sit on his butt and twirl the thumbs for another 10 years, hoping to get lucky?

Sit on his butt and twirl the thumbs for another 10 years? You mean the 10 years where 9 of them were playoff years and we got 2 SCF appearances along with 1 Cup? I don't think he can twirl his thumbs to get us into that position the next 10 years.

I don't know, drafting top 10 maybe helps? Having 10+ picks in drafts might be part of the plan. Icing a roster that is bottom 5 unless kids step up and turn into high-end players is likely part of the plan.

But sure, draw your false equivalencies between a bottomfeeder team that stockpiles picks and is in the draft lottery and a playoff team that tries to retool around an existing core.

Yzerman has been able to sign some pretty darn good players to good contracts though. He may not have been able to draft their top end talent but lets be real. He has kept it all together. There is no reason they shouldn't make playoffs with that roster. That's not on Stevie. You and I both know that. Nill came in and made moves and improved a team right away. They both have teams going in the opposite direction as ours.

He didn't really keep it all together imo. Drouin and MSL both seemed like excellent counterparts to Stamkos. Lost MSL only a year+change early, but Drouin is an entire career lost and Sergachev needs to become very, very good very quickly to make up for it. The point remains, when Holland had a prime core he did a better job than these guys have so far. Nill deserves credit for the crafty Seguin trade, and Yzerman has a bunch of good moves too. But neither has won anything, both have iced some teams that are way worse than they should be with those core players, and it's unlikely either of them would have worked magic on the Wings roster.

 

[izlez]

They both have contender rosters with multiple superstars locked in into long term, team friendly contracts.
Compare that to the roster Kenny has built and the Stanley Cup argument has nothing to do with it.
It's not about the past, it's all about the future.

It's actually about the present.


And when looking at "contenders" filled with "superstars" that have only finished higher than 5th in the division once out of the last five years, I'd be thinking that those superstars aren't as good as you think and that GM isn't actually very good at all.

We're really missing out by losing Nill

 

[Beltv]

Sit on his butt and twirl the thumbs for another 10 years? You mean the 10 years where 9 of them were playoff years and we got 2 SCF appearances along with 1 Cup? I don't think he can twirl his thumbs to get us into that position the next 10 years.

I don't know, drafting top 10 maybe helps? Having 10+ picks in drafts might be part of the plan. Icing a roster that is bottom 5 unless kids step up and turn into high-end players is likely part of the plan.

But sure, draw your false equivalencies between a bottomfeeder team that stockpiles picks and is in the draft lottery and a playoff team that tries to retool around an existing core.


He didn't really keep it all together imo. Drouin and MSL both seemed like excellent counterparts to Stamkos. Lost MSL only a year+change early, but Drouin is an entire career lost and Sergachev needs to become very, very good very quickly to make up for it. The point remains, when Holland had a prime core he did a better job than these guys have so far. Nill deserves credit for the crafty Seguin trade, and Yzerman has a bunch of good moves too. But neither has won anything, both have iced some teams that are way worse than they should be with those core players, and it's unlikely either of them would have worked magic on the Wings roster.

MSL wanted out because he was left off Team Canada? That's business.
Drouin wanted out and threw a fit because he thought he should be in the NHL? Again more business. Tampa is loaded on the front end so Sergachev for Drouin was a real good move by SY and co IMO. However, keeping the triplets, Stammer, Hedman, moving out Bishop, Filppula, Garrison all contracts that were not worth the money.

I can't argue they have under performed. But if you're a Tampa fan you still have something to be excited about. The team itself still has a good core and has a chance at playing for a cup. Detroit hasn't even had a chance at a cup since our last run. After that it was over and most of us knew it even if we didn't want to admit it.

You are right again that either of those may not have been the person to fix our dumpster fire but are they handing out NMCs to everybody on inflated contracts? No. To me, I see way less loyalty and more business with them. They're trying to do what it takes to build a winning roster while we are playing buddy buddy as we get drastically worse each season.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think anyone who thinks the GM wins the cup is delusional

Holland didn't win anything, yzerman, federov, lidstrom, shanahan, datsyuk and zetterberg did

If Holland amassed a core like that again here he would be successful even if the team didn't win, that's solely on the players.

Tampa not winning is set on the players. They are built to win, the GM did his job.

 

[StargateSG1]

I think anyone who thinks the GM wins the cup is delusional

Holland didn't win anything, yzerman, federov, lidstrom, shanahan, datsyuk and zetterberg did

If Holland amassed a core like that again here he would be successful even if the team didn't win, that's solely on the players.

Tampa not winning is set on the players. They are built to win, the GM did his job.

Some people seem to forget that Holland had never, ever build a team from scratch. He simply has no idea how to do it, that's why he is scared of the whole concept.

 

[Shaman464]

Some people seem to forget that Holland had never, ever build a team from scratch. He simply has no idea how to do it, that's why he is scared of the whole concept.

If GMing was like the 4 × 400 metres relay the Holland would be the guy you give it to 2nd or 3rd in it. He's good at taking the baton, running with it, and not dropping it. He's not the guy you want at the beginning or end, he just doesn't have that skill set. And that's fine. He did a great job of running the team and keeping gas in the tank. But, he doesn't know how to finish things (start the transition to building something new), so its time for him to hand it off to the next guy.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Tampa is loaded on the front end so Sergachev for Drouin was a real good move by SY and co IMO.

Not when they could have just drafted Seth Jones instead. I'd also easily take Drouin over Johnson/Palat so I really can't spin this into a positive for Yzerman.

 

[Heaton]

Not when they could have just drafted Seth Jones instead. I'd also easily take Drouin over Johnson/Palat so I really can't spin this into a positive for Yzerman.

Drouin is going to cost a ton of money and the Bolts don't need centers. Kucherov and Stamkos is enough, Drouin was a luxury.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Drouin is going to cost a ton of money and the Bolts don't need centers. Kucherov and Stamkos is enough, Drouin was a luxury.

I wouldn't call anything a luxury when you're a team that just missed the playoffs.

 

[Frk It]

Not when they could have just drafted Seth Jones instead. I'd also easily take Drouin over Johnson/Palat so I really can't spin this into a positive for Yzerman.

I hope you plan on being equally as critical of Holland's moves over the next few years.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I hope you plan on being equally as critical of Holland's moves over the next few years.

I will. Imo, GMs are more directly responsible for draft mistakes that happen early in the draft. I won't fault a GM too much for not picking the one superstar out of 300 players outside the top 10, but once you get into the top 10 picks you should be finding not only good players but the right players for your team. If Holland gets a #3 pick and takes a skilled winger over a high-end D prospect like Jones I'd be very upset.

 

[Frk It]

I will. Imo, GMs are more directly responsible for draft mistakes that happen early in the draft. I won't fault a GM too much for not picking the one superstar out of 300 players outside the top 10, but once you get into the top 10 picks you should be finding not only good players but the right players for your team. If Holland gets a #3 pick and takes a skilled winger over a high-end D prospect like Jones I'd be very upset.

I agree with that for the most part. We just had our first top 10 pick so we'll see in a few years how that stacks up, and we are probably slated for a few more here.

I thought Jones should have went #1 in 2013, so you're preaching to the choir

They did draft Drouin with the idea they'd convert him to center fwiw, that was the whole reason they sent him back to Juniors IIRC.

 

[Heaton]

I wouldn't call anything a luxury when you're a team that just missed the playoffs.

Like I said, he's going to cost them a ton of money and hasn't shown he's worth it when he's going to be behind Kucherov and Stamkos his entire career.

Whether or not Yzerman is as good as some of the Wings fans say he is around here, he has shown a great ability to get max value for his players.

 

[HIFE]

Dylan Larkin feels ready for full-time role at center

So Larkin is expected to center the 3rd line. I'm a little skeptical reading these phrases from Blashill:

"We have great examples of guys that have done that here in Detroit and I think he learned over the course of the season how to do that, how to create offense but still be accountable defensively. It's a hard lesson to learn. He learned it. As that happened his natural ability, creativity and instincts started to take hold. He realizes being the 200-foot player ultimately allows him more offense."

I'm not sold that "he learned it". I mean he's amassed 30 NHL games at center (after we were out of the PO hunt). There's bound to be a lot more bumps in the road. I guess as others have said he did great in the World Championships so I'll withhold judgment until the season starts. Strange I was watching game #1 from last season (on youtube) vs. Tampa and I swear he was centering a 3rd line with Abdelkader and Sheahan (lol). I hope this isn't history repeating itself.

For the Helm detractors this makes his role seem even more redundant.

What do you think of Blashill's rosy outlook and the plan for Larkin? Does DL stick as our 3rd center or even move ahead of Z and Nielsen?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Blashill and Larkin are buying into the World Championships. Good for them, they don't need to be as doom and gloom as our posters. The real issue is if they are wrong, I think no matter what he needs to stay at center this year. For better or worse we need to take our lumps and make that decision over 82 games.

 

[obey86]

Yzerman has been able to sign some pretty darn good players to good contracts though. He may not have been able to draft their top end talent but lets be real. He has kept it all together. There is no reason they shouldn't make playoffs with that roster. That's not on Stevie. You and I both know that. Nill came in and made moves and improved a team right away. They both have teams going in the opposite direction as ours.

How is it not on the general manager if the team he built doesn't make the playoffs? That's ridiculous. You're basically giving Yzerman a free pass for the team to do whatever. If they make the playoffs and win a few rounds...awesome, Stevie is such a good GM!!!! If they miss the playoffs....well, not Stevie's fault!

How can you give him credit for long playoff runs and then absolve him of blame when his team underachieved?

And Nill? He's shown next to nothing as a GM so far. He made one really awesome trade but the team results simply haven't been there. Maybe he turns it around but I don't know why any Wings fans would lose sleep over not having Nill as the GM. Yzerman I at least understand the thinking.