Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

[Dr.Funk]

 

[saska sault]

Couldn't happen to a worse person. Enjoy playing jail bail loser.

 

[Puckstuff]

So Urshella and Rosario both signed for 1 year at $1.5m....how did we manage to pay IKF $15m?

That is wild.

This management group f***ed up.

 

[dredeye]

Man this guy is going out of his way to make this as bad as possible for himself.

That is wild.

This management group f***ed up.

I don’t get everyone going wild over this one. It was an odd signing for sure and money not well spent in most of our eyes but it’s not like it’s destroying us now or long term. He signed for two years

 

[Bjindaho]

So Urshella and Rosario both signed for 1 year at $1.5m....how did we manage to pay IKF $15m?

Well, for one, IKF can play defense (which Rosario cant). His D numbers are tanked by him playing most of his innings in the outfield (despite being an infielder). Rosario started and was a replacement level player WITH a SS positional adjustment over a full season. Urshela lost his power somehow and his D seems to be declining.

The positive of IKF is that if he's backup 3B/SS/2B by the end of the year, he's one of the best backups.

The Jays are banking on either Varsho, Schneider and one of Espinal/Biggio/IKF hitting OR prospects stealing spots sometime around May-June (Barger, Martinez, and/or Palmegiani). That is the part that could be easily questioned.

 

[GreytWun]

Well, for one, IKF can play defense (which Rosario cant). His D numbers are tanked by him playing most of his innings in the outfield (despite being an infielder). Rosario started and was a replacement level player WITH a SS positional adjustment over a full season. Urshela lost his power somehow and his D seems to be declining.

The positive of IKF is that if he's backup 3B/SS/2B by the end of the year, he's one of the best backups.

The Jays are banking on either Varsho, Schneider and one of Espinal/Biggio/IKF hitting OR prospects stealing spots sometime around May-June (Barger, Martinez, and/or Palmegiani). That is the part that could be easily questioned.

No matter how you put it it's an overpay for IKF, especially if we still have Espinal.. This is the only move I haven't liked so far this offseason. Would like to see another bat but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Bjindaho]

No matter how you put it it's an overpay for IKF, especially if we still have Espinal.. This is the only move I haven't liked so far this offseason. Would like to see another bat but I don't think that's going to happen.

The logic is that one starts and one is backup. If Espinal hits like 2 years ago, this is fine. If IKF turns it around, or if Biggio steps up, this is fine.

If none of these, then a prospect likely causes Espinal to be traded.

It's hard to say that I dont like a specific move, personally. What I don't like is Kevin and IKF at their dollar amounts, knowing that a little re-jigging might have allowed for a better player at 3B. That being said, we have a couple of camp invites that are at least interesting.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[Puckstuff]

Man this guy is going out of his way to make this as bad as possible for himself.


I don’t get everyone going wild over this one. It was an odd signing for sure and money not well spent in most of our eyes but it’s not like it’s destroying us now or long term. He signed for two years

I don’t mind IKF as a versatile player but paying him 5 x more then Urshella (when Urshella is arguably better) means we are over paying for versatility. IKF is a better fit but I just think it’s a very high price.

 

[conFABulator]

I don’t mind IKF as a versatile player but paying him 5 x more then Urshella (when Urshella is arguably better) means we are over paying for versatility. IKF is a better fit but I just think it’s a very high price.

I agree. This appears to be a signing to fit a very specific need of versatility and flexibility. It's a good signing of that flexibility wins us ball games. Let's see.

As for overpaying, there is no cap and i am not sure where we might have reallocated a few million dollars if we paid IKF a few million less.

 

[GoonieFace]

I agree. This appears to be a signing to fit a very specific need of versatility and flexibility. It's a good signing of that flexibility wins us ball games. Let's see.

As for overpaying, there is no cap and i am not sure where we might have reallocated a few million dollars if we paid IKF a few million less.

Falafel night will pay for itself

 

[canucksfan]

One thing to keep in mind is if the team plays it safe and waits until all of their target players come down in price, and if they sign elsewhere then the team is screwed.

Urshella's contract could be very good and he's a guy I wanted the Jays to target. It could be a real bargain at that price.

 

[Puckstuff]

I agree. This appears to be a signing to fit a very specific need of versatility and flexibility. It's a good signing of that flexibility wins us ball games. Let's see.

As for overpaying, there is no cap and i am not sure where we might have reallocated a few million dollars if we paid IKF a few million less.

Lee (LF) and Urshella (3B) will come in at a similar price to IKF and KK. It doesn't mean those guys would sign here but they are definitely preferable to IKF and KK and better bang for the buck.


Steamer OPS projections:

Lee: .784
Urshella: .731


Steamer OPS projections:

Kiermaier: .689
IKF: .676

I like the Rodriguez and Turner signing's though

 

[canucksfan]

 

[conFABulator]

Lee (LF) and Urshella (3B) will come in at a similar price to IKF and KK. It doesn't mean those guys would sign here but they are definitely preferable to IKF and KK and better bang for the buck.


Steamer OPS projections:

Lee: .784
Urshella: .731


Steamer OPS projections:

Kiermaier: .689
IKF: .676

I like the Rodriguez and Turner signing's though

Yeah. It's the versatility they paid a premium for. IKF can play seven positions...pretty well. This will allow us to get the match-ups we want on a daily basis.

Biggio, Espinal and IKF mean we might see a different order and line up every day. For example, IKF can catch (more than Varsho does) and this means we can start one of Jansen and Kirk at C while the other DHs...without having to carry a no-glove third catcher on the roster. I am not sure that's the recipe for winning, but it appears to be what Atkins was willing to pay a premium for.

 

[GreytWun]

This is good news. Adding another pitch to his repertoire as long as it's above average will pan out well for him.

 

[Kurtz]

Well, for one, IKF can play defense (which Rosario cant). His D numbers are tanked by him playing most of his innings in the outfield (despite being an infielder). Rosario started and was a replacement level player WITH a SS positional adjustment over a full season. Urshela lost his power somehow and his D seems to be declining.

The positive of IKF is that if he's backup 3B/SS/2B by the end of the year, he's one of the best backups.

The Jays are banking on either Varsho, Schneider and one of Espinal/Biggio/IKF hitting OR prospects stealing spots sometime around May-June (Barger, Martinez, and/or Palmegiani). That is the part that could be easily questioned.

Both Urshella and Rosario are projected to have slightly higher WAR than IKR. Yet both guys got 1.5m vs IKR getting $15m.

Let's put aside the fact that IKR is not a great fit on this team to begin with with his lack of a bat and all of those infielders we have kicking around. Just in terms of pure value, this is yet another clear misstep in judgement from our management team.

 

[Kurtz]

I agree. This appears to be a signing to fit a very specific need of versatility and flexibility. It's a good signing of that flexibility wins us ball games. Let's see.

As for overpaying, there is no cap and i am not sure where we might have reallocated a few million dollars if we paid IKF a few million less.

A couple of mil is the difference between Turner and JD Martinez. One of the Jays insiders (I think BNS) reported after the Turner signing that if we'd offered JD 1/20 he'd be a Blue Jay.

For the money we paid Turner+IKF we could have had Martinez+Urshella.

 

[conFABulator]

A couple of mil is the difference between Turner and JD Martinez. One of the Jays insiders (I think BNS) reported after the Turner signing that if we'd offered JD 1/20 he'd be a Blue Jay.

For the money we paid Turner+IKF we could have had Martinez+Urshella.

I know. I think they wanted Turner too, not just IKF. They have a vision of contact, defense, and pitching.

We will see if this works.

 

[Puckstuff]

Both Urshella and Rosario are projected to have slightly higher WAR than IKR. Yet both guys got 1.5m vs IKR getting $15m.

Let's put aside the fact that IKR is not a great fit on this team to begin with with his lack of a bat and all of those infielders we have kicking around. Just in terms of pure value, this is yet another clear misstep in judgement from our management team.

Teams used to be able to sign good defensive players for below market value in the past (TB definitely exploited this) but with analytics and WAR it's like the pendulum has swung where now teams are overpaying for defensive guys and maybe there is better arb signing offensive guys with medicore defence.

 

[jetsforever]

To be honest, I feel same as Bass. I wish we had seen him more. The injury + the pandemic really robbed us of watching a really excellent pitcher. He was pretty brilliant in 2020.

Yeah it's a shame his big contract didn't turn into more games but it was still awesome to have him

 

[Nineteen67]

We were watching his warm up before one of his first starts last spring and wondered why he wasn’t throwing a fastball. Look stiff to me.

 

[phillipmike]

Tiedemann not starting tomorrow due to discomfort in his hamstring.

 

[canucksfan]

Tiedemann not starting tomorrow due to discomfort in his hamstring.

Dallas is starting instead. Will be interesting to see how he does.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

What a beautiful sight having baseball back is. The first sign that spring is coming, and the boys will soon be back!

Nothing like tuning into a spring training game seeing a bright, clear sky accompanying the sounds of baseball, all the while hunkered up inside when it is minus weather outside.