Observations XIV
- Thread starter ThirdManIn
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Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
I think the last few games there have been more defensive lapses from other d-men than Subban (Is it because he came back, I don't know) and our goalies haven't been as good as on the streak where we gave up a lot of goals. Rinne was bad last night.
I guess I am in the minority but I thought PK looked much more like his normal self last night than the previous 3 games. He made several great individual defensive plays (forget what point in the game but he went down and blocked a pass across the crease that would have been an easy goal for Col).
Pred303
Registered User
with 5 days off now, it's time to step back and enjoy last night and the January turnaround. 7-1-1 in our last nine, and honestly it could easily have been 9-0. I've said many times, you are never really in trouble until a 5 game winning streak (or equivalent) won't make everything better. As to last night, a few random observations in no particular order;
..McLeod. cann't help myself, like this guy. causes chaos and goal mouth scrambles just being out there, and it's chaos and scrambles that allow 4th liners to score.
..actually like our 4th line right now as a result.
..that's the ekholm i've been waiting half a season to see again. think he feels freer to puck carry deep because subban's not 100% and more tied to the blueline instead of him being the stay back guy.
..rinne ssems to allow more goals from the blueline than he logically should. just seems to have a tough time picking up on the shot from the point.
..those two 'leakers' were potentially disasterous.
..on the other side, he made some really great, critical saves. so sort of a schizo type performance.
..to score 4 goals on a night with no points from forsberg, neal, johansen, or arvy was quite an accomplishment.
..conversely, those guys didn't play badly though.
..fisher. had a hell of a game honestly. some huge faceoff wins, good defense and managed two (admittedly cheap) second assists.
..smith. wilson. we need them badly to be those players.
..you know, jarnkrok looked pretty good centering that line. didn't miss ribeiro honestly.
..weber/bitteto pairing really struggled most of night, mostly because of weber.
..weber seems to live a charmed life, even though he is by far our worst d-man, it just seems his turnovers rarely get converted, while the same turnover by another pair much more often leads to a goal allowed. must remember part of that 'luck' is the fact that he is out there against 3rd/4th lines who aren't as skilled.
..we got very lucky i feel on that stupid off-sides rule.
..one advantage of having a true 4th line bunch of grinders, and a well defined weaker third pairing is that their minutes get limited (6-8 for our 4th, 8-10 for our 3rd pair last night), which means our more skilled guys get more shifts and time.
..i wouldn't trade johansen back for jones no way no how. but i would have to at least listen to a jones for subban even up swap proposal i think (salary/age figure in here). jones looked good last night. but i also think subban looked better.
..ellis quietly played a good game. the guy made some really key defensive plays
..seems we hit more posts than any team in the league.
..we are giving up far too many shots too often honestly. a disturbing trend.
..defensively we play great many times, right up until late game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 situations when normal structure and assignments go out the window.
..part of the reason we stuggle in 6 on situations is who we like to have out there. Fisher's group doesn't have enough quickness, yet you want him taking the key draws and our slower but bigger forwards to win board battles. but we need guys like arvy out there to be able to take advantage of his speed and quickness for open net attempts.
it was a great win. now we need to go about 8-2 over these next ten and see if we can close the gap a little more on CHI. not only do we have two games in hand over them, but they have played 5 more home games than we have, just something else to watch.
..McLeod. cann't help myself, like this guy. causes chaos and goal mouth scrambles just being out there, and it's chaos and scrambles that allow 4th liners to score.
..actually like our 4th line right now as a result.
..that's the ekholm i've been waiting half a season to see again. think he feels freer to puck carry deep because subban's not 100% and more tied to the blueline instead of him being the stay back guy.
..rinne ssems to allow more goals from the blueline than he logically should. just seems to have a tough time picking up on the shot from the point.
..those two 'leakers' were potentially disasterous.
..on the other side, he made some really great, critical saves. so sort of a schizo type performance.
..to score 4 goals on a night with no points from forsberg, neal, johansen, or arvy was quite an accomplishment.
..conversely, those guys didn't play badly though.
..fisher. had a hell of a game honestly. some huge faceoff wins, good defense and managed two (admittedly cheap) second assists.
..smith. wilson. we need them badly to be those players.
..you know, jarnkrok looked pretty good centering that line. didn't miss ribeiro honestly.
..weber/bitteto pairing really struggled most of night, mostly because of weber.
..weber seems to live a charmed life, even though he is by far our worst d-man, it just seems his turnovers rarely get converted, while the same turnover by another pair much more often leads to a goal allowed. must remember part of that 'luck' is the fact that he is out there against 3rd/4th lines who aren't as skilled.
..we got very lucky i feel on that stupid off-sides rule.
..one advantage of having a true 4th line bunch of grinders, and a well defined weaker third pairing is that their minutes get limited (6-8 for our 4th, 8-10 for our 3rd pair last night), which means our more skilled guys get more shifts and time.
..i wouldn't trade johansen back for jones no way no how. but i would have to at least listen to a jones for subban even up swap proposal i think (salary/age figure in here). jones looked good last night. but i also think subban looked better.
..ellis quietly played a good game. the guy made some really key defensive plays
..seems we hit more posts than any team in the league.
..we are giving up far too many shots too often honestly. a disturbing trend.
..defensively we play great many times, right up until late game 6 on 5 or 5 on 6 situations when normal structure and assignments go out the window.
..part of the reason we stuggle in 6 on situations is who we like to have out there. Fisher's group doesn't have enough quickness, yet you want him taking the key draws and our slower but bigger forwards to win board battles. but we need guys like arvy out there to be able to take advantage of his speed and quickness for open net attempts.
it was a great win. now we need to go about 8-2 over these next ten and see if we can close the gap a little more on CHI. not only do we have two games in hand over them, but they have played 5 more home games than we have, just something else to watch.
Pred303
Registered User
and oh i'm not advocating we see josi-ellis/ekholm-subban over josi-subban which i would like to see as well, just think that's almost sure what lavy will go back to.
glenngineer
Registered User
303, I said to my buddy last night I wish we had traded Weber for Johansen and kept Jones. This isn't a knock on Subban at all but I like Jones' game better and I think he fits in to our team better. We also know he could play with Josi which would've allowed us to keep Ellis and Ekholm together. All in all this is what it is but I'm glad I'm not the only one who's thought this.
I still think Jones is going to turn in to one heck of a player in this league and I'm almost a little jealous of the Jackets blue line. They've built a nice group of players back there as well as a heck of a team, top to bottom. Really good job by their GM.
I still think Jones is going to turn in to one heck of a player in this league and I'm almost a little jealous of the Jackets blue line. They've built a nice group of players back there as well as a heck of a team, top to bottom. Really good job by their GM.
NSH615
...
- Feb 13, 2013
- 11,119
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I'm not blaming him personally, just find it odd that the team struggles with this schizophrenic defense, then he gets hurt, and after a week the team adjusts to him not being there and suddenly they are playing some of the best defense of the year. Then he comes back in after a few games the schizophrenic defense is back. It is just a weird pattern.
My point was also driven more to point out the defense wasn't working in reply to a comment that said that Josi-Subban wouldn't happen unless the defense fails.
I'm a big fan of Subban but there's just got to be something in his game or his mindset on the ice that makes him hard to mesh with as a D partner. I don't have any real experience playing the game at a competitive level so I don't know what may cause that but it seems like the only logical explanation. As much as I'd like to see him and Josi paired together I still think, in my very unprofessional opinion, that the easiest type of guy to pair with him would in fact be Ekholm. I don't know if Josi and PK combined are steady enough from a purely defensive standpoint to succeed together over long amounts of time.
To me, the biggest positive from last night was Smith scoring twice. The guy is streaky and is due to go on a tear. I tend to not worry about his goal-scoring pace too much because he'll be completely quiet for a long stretch, then score five goals in four games. So, maybe he's entering a "good" phase.
And what is interesting with Smith is that as bad as his season has been, he is right now still on pace for 16 goals. So there is no doubt in my mind he will at least match last year's 21. Hopefully more........
Pred303
Registered User
I hear you, but I still think PK gets too much grief for whatever reason.
One more thing about our defense- it almost seems like people have forgotten, but we are STILL MISSING OUR #1 DEFENSEMAN. That is kind of a big deal! You take any team's #1 dman away and they are going to suffer.
So far we have done an amazing job of playing through the injuries we have had on the blue line.....
glenngineer
Registered User
And just playing devil's advocate here for a second, it really makes you wonder what makes a team play its best hockey with the pieces it has. Subban was out for a while and the team adapted to some degree. Then Josi goes down and they adjust more. We had Irwin and Weber in our top 4 for a bit and didn't seem to suffer but instead acceled. Go figure right. Once again, this is a small sample size but sometimes you have to wonder why teams play better without some of their top players. Then you have to go, are the top players trying to be too cute instead of playing a simpler game?
Watch Forsberg and when he's on, he's a forechecking machine that causes turnovers and attacks the D but doesn't hold the puck too much and relies on his teammates. When he's not on he's pressing and trying to do too much. I think the same can be said for PK and Josi at times.
Which leads me to an interesting question, watch guys like Keith or Doughty and do they make the simple play more often than not or do they try to do too much? I think they know when to push and when to make the simple play and that's what makes them so good. Guys like ours who aren't in that caliber make the simple play and while it may not be sexy, it doesn't put us in trouble. When we try to go the extra mile is when we get hurt. I get you want to push the attack but at the same time, we have to do it wisely and while Josi and PK are amazing talents, maybe they need to study a little more from the Ryan Ellis handbook of how to play smart hockey. To me, Ellis has taken a giant leap this season and is probably our best defenseman right now and when I say that it includes everyone on our team. And if he were only 3 inches taller he may be considered one of the best in the game. It's a testament to him, his skill set and his maturity on the ice.
Pred303
Registered User
sure is nice to begin a 5 day break from hockey on a positive note. makes it easier to sit back and feel better about where we have come in a short time.
Yep- some good points and it is a fascinating discussion to me. I mean, when Josi went down and we were without him AND Subban, I thought our season was over. Yet we adapted and actually got on a good roll without them. I don't know if there is any explanation for it.
Small sample size is probably very key here, but I will admit that our play without Josi and Subban causes a part of me to being more open to trading one of our big 4 for a top line center (Duchene??).
I keep seeing pesky rumors of Duchene for Ekholm popping up in random corners of the internet. Not saying I'm for or against it or that it has any weight what so ever, but just an ironic statement by you.
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
It looked to me like we did what a lot of the smaller European soccer clubs do against the giants. We can't beat you with the talent we have now but we can play a structured defensive game and then counter attack. Play disciplined defense. Make sure your goalie can see the shots and then when the opposing offense gets a little too comfortable or a little too deep, break out and create offensive chances for yourself. We'll let you control the possession but we're not going to let you get easy goals.
If you notice the scores in the first 4 games of this stretch.
2-1 OT (W)
2-1 (W)
3-2 (W)
1-0 (L)
We weren't really trying to drive the possession and make the other team play defense because we just didn't have the players to do that so we did what every team lacking talent did. Everybody play defense first and then worry about scoring later.
JustaFinnishGuy
Joonas Donskoi avi but not a SEA fan ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Duchene for Ekholm would be amazing. Adding another guaranteed 50-60 points to our forward core would be a big improvement. I hope Poile is successful in shipping a certain streaky Smith out of town (expansion draft) and working a trade like this. Highly improbable that this would happen, but I'm all in for a move like this if it doesn't end up costing us any more than Ekholm and a singular (low) pick.
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Rumors swirling that Blackhawks are trying hard for Duchene.
Uggghhhh
I don't see how in the heck they could pull that off with their cap space situation plus the fact that they really don't have a ton of young players to offer.
Seems like we could easily top whatever their offer is
Uggghhhh
I don't see how in the heck they could pull that off with their cap space situation plus the fact that they really don't have a ton of young players to offer.
Seems like we could easily top whatever their offer is
token grinder
Facts Get Deleted
Here is the problem for Chicago. The draft is there this year. I don't think a draft pick is moved. To get Duchenne, they are going to have a send a little salary back on top of 3-4 good young players.
Like giving up Nick Schmaltz, Ville Pokka, Ryan Hartman, and Tyler Motte. They probably would have to give some soul up to in Marcus Kruger to make it fit not nly this year, but next.
King Weber
Registered User
- Apr 9, 2015
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Anisimov? For a team with a cap situation like theirs, wouldn't make sense for them to keep a guy making that amount of money as a 3C.
Think Anisimov+Pokka/Forsling+2018 1st+2017 2nd
Isn't it interesting that we're 7-1-1 yet it feels like we're underachieving. We've fallen into this constant state of dis-satisfaction because we believe we could be so much better.
I get it. I do it. But if everyone played like we expected, we'd never lose a game. Fact is, all teams are flawed. No way CBJ should have lost to us, according to their fans and their track record. We gave up a weak goal and almost folded in crunch time, and we still won.
We don't have to be the best, we just have to be slightly better than the other flawed team we're playing. That's been the formula for the 7-1-1 run.
I worry that we're creating a negative vibe around this team because they disappoint us too much, yet they're firmly in 3rd and a playoff spot. The crowds seem nervous and un-Pred-like quiet. We obsess over key mistakes as if players won't make mistakes. They will, we just have to make less of them than the other team.
There are many franchises who aren't perennial playoff team. Their fan bases suffer thru meaningless games. We are a perennial playoff team. We have the pieces to pursue the Cup. We play an exciting brand of hockey.
Guess what I'm saying is, hockey life is good. We'll start our Winter Run into the playoffs with many exciting, nail-biting games. We'll love them a lot, and hate them some too. Rinne will continue to let in softies, but at the same time win games. Regular Season Willy is continue to frustrate us ...... until he scores the first goal in Game 1 of the playoffs.
And we'll continue to care. Our give-a-**** meter will register high numbers and hopefully we'll all fully appreciate how blessed we are to be Pred fans in Nashville.
An experience like no other .....
I get it. I do it. But if everyone played like we expected, we'd never lose a game. Fact is, all teams are flawed. No way CBJ should have lost to us, according to their fans and their track record. We gave up a weak goal and almost folded in crunch time, and we still won.
We don't have to be the best, we just have to be slightly better than the other flawed team we're playing. That's been the formula for the 7-1-1 run.
I worry that we're creating a negative vibe around this team because they disappoint us too much, yet they're firmly in 3rd and a playoff spot. The crowds seem nervous and un-Pred-like quiet. We obsess over key mistakes as if players won't make mistakes. They will, we just have to make less of them than the other team.
There are many franchises who aren't perennial playoff team. Their fan bases suffer thru meaningless games. We are a perennial playoff team. We have the pieces to pursue the Cup. We play an exciting brand of hockey.
Guess what I'm saying is, hockey life is good. We'll start our Winter Run into the playoffs with many exciting, nail-biting games. We'll love them a lot, and hate them some too. Rinne will continue to let in softies, but at the same time win games. Regular Season Willy is continue to frustrate us ...... until he scores the first goal in Game 1 of the playoffs.
And we'll continue to care. Our give-a-**** meter will register high numbers and hopefully we'll all fully appreciate how blessed we are to be Pred fans in Nashville.
An experience like no other .....
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