Observations, Part VI

[Top 6 Spaling]

Filling in a top line center and a top 6 winger, along with two roster defensemen, is a pretty big makeover...

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Filling in a top line center and a top 6 winger, along with two roster defensemen, is a pretty big makeover...

Seriously. A true top-line center (Ribeiro hasn't been that bad in the role at all) is probably the most difficult piece to acquire in the game. There's a reason we've never really been able to get one (sorry haters, it's not all on Poile). Unfortunate that Spezza wouldn't come here. How much better off would we be than we have been with Kneel?

 

[drwpreds]

The problem is, Byrd, as it has long been, that the team is just not bad enough to tank and land the top-flight offensive talent we desperately need. The Jones year was an anomaly, and I would wager that had the season been a normal 82-game affair, we never would have been in the lottery to begin with, even considering the crippling injuries.

As is now, we would have to sell off far too many assets to truly go into a rebuild. Dump off Weber, Rinne, Fisher, Neal, don't bring back Ribeiro, Cullen, Goose, or Franson, and just go with the younger core and I bet we're still very hard-pressed to finish bottom 5.

Sad as it is to say, though, I do not see us as a legit contender during the Weber/Rinne window. I don't think there's any real shot we move either of those guys (or that we would get appropriate value in return), but I would much rather see us try to build a team around the Forsberg/Fiala/Josi/Jones/Ellis/Ekholm group than "go for it" now.

So you do not think we will be a "legit" contender during Weber's window? How can you possibly know that? Heck, we were pretty close to being a legit contender this year, and without injuries to 2 of our 3 most important players, we likely win this series against Chicago and would be in the final 8 this year. If we had some aging, over the hill roster I would agree, but to me, our window is opening, not closing.

We have one of the most talented defenses 1-6 in the entire league and have more up and coming skilled forwards than we have ever had. And it is now a pretty big if, but IF Rinne returns to his normal self, that is a pretty darn good nucleus going forward.

As has been discussed to death, we absolutely need an upgrade at Center- get that and we absolutely can be a legit contender.

I know we are all emotionally drained after that loss last night, but for the life of me I don't get the doom and gloom, need to rebuild thinking about the next few years.

I feel pretty good about the Preds future- am I the only one????????

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

So you do not think we will be a "legit" contender during Weber's window? How can you possibly know that? Heck, we were pretty close to being a legit contender this year, and without injuries to 2 of our 3 most important players, we likely win this series against Chicago and would be in the final 8 this year. If we had some aging, over the hill roster I would agree, but to me, our window is opening, not closing.

We have one of the most talented defenses 1-6 in the entire league and have more up and coming skilled forwards than we have ever had. And it is now a pretty big if, but IF Rinne returns to his normal self, that is a pretty darn good nucleus going forward.

As has been discussed to death, we absolutely need an upgrade at Center- get that and we absolutely can be a legit contender.

I know we are all emotionally drained after that loss last night, but for the life of me I don't get the doom and gloom, need to rebuild thinking about the next few years.

I feel pretty good about the Preds future- am I the only one????????

It's an opinion, I don't claim to have any supernatural knowledge one way or the other. I think the lack of top-end talent offensively is going to always have us at a disadvantage when it comes to the post-season, even with the additions of players like Forsberg and Fiala. With the window for Weber/Rinne being extremely small in comparison to the younger group, I would hate to see us waste young assets to "go for it now" only to come up short.

It's not that I feel down on the team or organization, I think we are going to be a very good team for the next several years, but I think that is about the ceiling of what we'll be, a good, not great team.

 

[MrJoshua]

My wish list:

1) Reel off a three-game winning streak. But, barring that...


2) Since Edmonton is going to have a big-time center handed to them, look into the possibility of trading for RNH. That's probably going to take Jones, but as much as I hate to see him traded, Weber-Ellis is a pretty good 1-2 punch down the right-hand side on defense. (In an aside, if you could put Ellis' brain and hands on Jones' body, you'd have a perennial Norris winner.)

3) Add a top-six winger, but I'm thinking this is going to be Fiala.

4) Bring back Fisher and Ribeiro on short deals, 1-2 years. Cut loose Cullen.

5) Pick up a decent defensive vet or re-sign Franson for a reasonable amount (although I expect he'll want way too much for what his role on the team would be).

So going into next season the lineup looks like:

Forsberg - Nugent-Hopkins - Neal
Wilson - Ribeiro - Fiala
Jarnkrok/Stalberg - Fisher - Smith (talk about improved third-line production)
Bourque - Gaustad - Beck
Nystrom - Stalberg/Jarnkrok

Josi - Weber
Ekholm - Ellis
Bartley - Franson/FA
FA or Volchenkov

 

[Byrddog]

and to all the people screaming we need a drastic makeover. we don't. we have many good pieces. but many of them are forced into roles they aren't best suited for.

ribs would make a really great second line center. fisher would make a really great 3rd line centerman. i look at our roster needs for next year and think;

forsberg-XXXX(trade/signing?)-neal
wilson-ribs-XXXX(fiala,vescey here?)
smith-fisher-XXXX(watson,sissons,arvdsson?)
XXXX(nystrom,bourque,salomaki?)-gaustad-beck

possibly two third pair dmen (if we trade an ellis or jones) and a backup goalie.

these few changes and just some reasonable development from the youngsters (not easy, but few), could turn us from a good 10th-15th type team (which is what we are really now), into an elite top 5 type team.

it's possible. i still have hope.

While I see the logic I can't see how it can get done in the Weber Rinne window. Does that mean you move them and acquire players in the same age window to peak. These two would return some nice upgrades and really only create the hole in net that is going to happen in the near term anyway. I hate the idea of going back to a goalie void like the team was with Ellis, Mason period. INO moving Weber and Rinne would be considered a major rebuild. Looking at the UFA's nothing jumps out that would elevate this team to elite status. It would be nauseating to have to trade Weber or Jones to the Oil who are really the ones that hold the player that would answer the 1C. Unless a Weber to Pens for Geno could get done.

 

[Enoch]

Hey, I know that adding a top 3 center is difficult, but Poile has had 17 years to do so. At some point the excuses have to stop. Plenty of other teams have identified and addressed that need at some point. I know this is a simplistic view, and that if the chips fell a little differently, we have a Spezza, or we drafted Kopitar, etc. The problem is, they didn't. Poile has to accomplish this or we are going to continue to languish.

 

[Byrddog]

Everyone is forgetting Moses.. I would bet the plans for the guy to be in the top 6 with Fiala Neal and FF. So there are some pieces that are going to need to be moved out. Forward wise as well. there just not enough room for Wilson, Smith, Hook, Stalberg, Arvidson, along with a few more in Milwaukee. The issue yet again a boatload unproven guys. Will the right decisions be made? Will one get away that they should retain? Almost certain there will be disappointing situations.

 

[Pred303]

josh. i'm with you.

 

[deanwormer]

We played these clowns, in their house, while they are fully-healthy, without our Norris-caliber Dman and our most important F, and we played them virtually dead-even for 100 minutes. The sky is not falling, as disappointing as the results may be.

We can still run 3 games - we did do that to PO caliber teams in the east a few weeks ago.

Absent that - we have a useless 3rd line that will be replaced by Fiala and 2 others. In a perfect world it'll be by moving Smith and Fish down cause of our signings, and we will have a talented top 9, even if we can't get that unicorn, I mean, #1C.

Look at the experience our kids are getting - especially those 4 Dmen - even if we move one of them for a top 3/6 piece, with Webby back that is still a formidable backend, and certainly good enough to go deeper in the Peks window.

 

[deanwormer]

Everyone is forgetting Moses.. I would bet the plans for the guy to be in the top 6 with Fiala Neal and FF. So there are some pieces that are going to need to be moved out. Forward wise as well. there just not enough room for Wilson, Smith, Hook, Stalberg, Arvidson, along with a few more in Milwaukee. The issue yet again a boatload unproven guys. Will the right decisions be made? Will one get away that they should retain? Almost certain there will be disappointing situations.

To your point, Moses is the definition of an unproven guy.

Third line, with Fiala and Fish.

 

[Pred303]

have only scanned the game day thread, but i didn't see anyone fault anyone for the goals allowed last night. couple of thoughts;


goal 1. all of it was on stalberg. he was where he was supposed to be as the weakside forawrd covering the mid to high slot when the puck went to the far boards. however all he did was skate there and watch the puck. never saw vermette all alone skate right in behind him wide open.

and wouldn't it be nice if we actually had a broadcast analyst or crew that could point out obvious failings to all the poor people watching the game? thanks frankenstu for nothing.

2)goal 2. obviously josi with a horrible executed exchange/handoff to jones on hossa skating across the slot. bad communication (or trust), that one can blame on two guys playing together that haven't played together much. a little note on forsberg not sliding over to help in the high slot but just staying on his man farther over that i'm sure got mentioned in the film room as well

3)goal 3. the forsberg turnover, eckholm helping to sreen rinne (although not sure he had a choice but to follow his man)

 

[Drake744]

Other than the fact that Edmonton generally makes sense as a trade partner I don't get the notion that Nugent-Hopkins needs to be acquired. We complain about our lack of size and we want a guy who clocks in at 190 pounds (depending on where you look)? Both RNH and Fisher are 6'1" and Fisher is 25 pounds heavier.

 

[darth5]

I pretty much LEAVE mute on the FSTN broadcast. I would almost rather hear the NBCSN ******** of the Hawks than listen to franstu. A drinking game on him saying 'smart', 'strong', 'strong bid', saying someone who has been assessed a penalty DREW it, would leave you not just unconscious but permanently blind and kidney damaged.
And that is just in regulation...

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Everyone is forgetting Moses.. I would bet the plans for the guy to be in the top 6 with Fiala Neal and FF. So there are some pieces that are going to need to be moved out. Forward wise as well. there just not enough room for Wilson, Smith, Hook, Stalberg, Arvidson, along with a few more in Milwaukee. The issue yet again a boatload unproven guys. Will the right decisions be made? Will one get away that they should retain? Almost certain there will be disappointing situations.

There are just too many players in the mix to think there won't be a bit of turnover this off-season.

Signed:
Forsberg
Nystrom
Stalberg
Goose
Neal
Moses

Probably re-signed:
Smith
Wilson
Fisher (if he doesn't retire after all)
Ribeiro

Iffy re-signing:
Jarnkrok
Beck
Bourque

Probably out:
Cullen
Santorelli

Potential prospects:
Fiala
Aberg
Salomaki
Arvidsson
Watson
Sissons

This doesn't include any possible free agent signings or trade acquisitions. Going to be an interesting off-season. We have some spots we definitely need to clear.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Other than the fact that Edmonton generally makes sense as a trade partner I don't get the notion that Nugent-Hopkins needs to be acquired. We complain about our lack of size and we want a guy who clocks in at 190 pounds (depending on where you look)? Both RNH and Fisher are 6'1" and Fisher is 25 pounds heavier.

In a vacuum, I actually do think Draisaitl is a better fit, but don't think he's close enough to being ready for such a trade to benefit us during this window.

 

[SavageSteve]

There are just too many players in the mix to think there won't be a bit of turnover this off-season.

Signed:
Forsberg
Nystrom
Stalberg
Goose
Neal
Moses

Probably re-signed:
Smith
Wilson
Fisher (if he doesn't retire after all)
Ribeiro

Iffy re-signing:
Jarnkrok
Beck
Bourque

Probably out:
Cullen
Santorelli

Potential prospects:
Fiala
Aberg
Salomaki
Arvidsson
Watson
Sissons

This doesn't include any possible free agent signings or trade acquisitions. Going to be an interesting off-season. We have some spots we definitely need to clear.

It also doesn't include the offer-sheet bridge contract Poile (or some other team's GM) will give to Tarasenko! If anything it will be strategy to hamstring the competition...

 

[drwpreds]

It's an opinion, I don't claim to have any supernatural knowledge one way or the other. I think the lack of top-end talent offensively is going to always have us at a disadvantage when it comes to the post-season, even with the additions of players like Forsberg and Fiala. With the window for Weber/Rinne being extremely small in comparison to the younger group, I would hate to see us waste young assets to "go for it now" only to come up short.

It's not that I feel down on the team or organization, I think we are going to be a very good team for the next several years, but I think that is about the ceiling of what we'll be, a good, not great team.

I hear ya, and just so we are clear, I respect your opinions.

As for lack of top end talent, IF we can get an upgrade and center (and I realize that is a big if)- but if we somehow are able to do that, with potential studs like Forsberg and Fiala to go along with guys like Smith and Wilson, that is some pretty good top end talent to me.

Again, I get that there are alot of ifs in there- we don't know how Fiala will develop, for example.

I am just saying its not like the cupboard is bare and we have no hope of having elite talent on offense for years to come

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I hear ya, and just so we are clear, I respect your opinions.

As for lack of top end talent, IF we can get an upgrade and center (and I realize that is a big if)- but if we somehow are able to do that, with potential studs like Forsberg and Fiala to go along with guys like Smith and Wilson, that is some pretty good top end talent to me.

Again, I get that there are alot of ifs in there- we don't know how Fiala will develop, for example.

I am just saying its not like the cupboard is bare and we have no hope of having elite talent on offense for years to come

I don't disagree with you, I'm just wary of whether the talent develops well enough for us to really be a legit contender before Rinne and Weber are too far on the decline. If Poile tries to go about upgrading center this summer, I think he needs to be real careful about how he does it. Trading a piece like Ellis for a Joe Thornton, for instance, would be real counterproductive long-term, IMO.

 

[drwpreds]

We played these clowns, in their house, while they are fully-healthy, without our Norris-caliber Dman and our most important F, and we played them virtually dead-even for 100 minutes. The sky is not falling, as disappointing as the results may be..

Exactly- its like everyone on here has completely forgotten, or is ignoring, the fact that we are missing quite possibly our 2 most important players (skaters, not goaltenders). And still have played a full strength Chicago Blackhawks to at worst a dead even series. That is pretty darn impressive in my book.

What if we had been healthy and Chicago was missing Kane and Keith??

I am pretty sure I remember a whole lot of people on here saying we would get blown out and swept in this series WITH Weber and Fisher. But even without them that still did not happen.

 

[Montross]

I hear ya, and just so we are clear, I respect your opinions.

As for lack of top end talent, IF we can get an upgrade and center (and I realize that is a big if)- but if we somehow are able to do that, with potential studs like Forsberg and Fiala to go along with guys like Smith and Wilson, that is some pretty good top end talent to me.

Again, I get that there are alot of ifs in there- we don't know how Fiala will develop, for example.

I am just saying its not like the cupboard is bare and we have no hope of having elite talent on offense for years to come

Actually, the cupboard is pretty bare on top-end forward talent, specifically the team's biggest need - center. Did you see how the Ads played once they lost Salomaki to injury and Leipsic to that junk trade? Wasn't much going on with that team.
Getting a #1 center I think is a pipe dream. I would be interested in seeing a list of these #1 centers in the offseason that would be realistic targets. Just don't see it.

 

[Montross]

Exactly- its like everyone on here has completely forgotten, or is ignoring, the fact that we are missing quite possibly our 2 most important players (skaters, not goaltenders). And still have played a full strength Chicago Blackhawks to at worst a dead even series. That is pretty darn impressive in my book.

What if we had been healthy and Chicago was missing Kane and Keith??

I am pretty sure I remember a whole lot of people on here saying we would get blown out and swept in this series WITH Weber and Fisher. But even without them that still did not happen.

Yay the Preds didn't get swept!

 

[Drake744]

If Spezza wasn't a complete tool this would be a non-issue.

 

[drwpreds]

Yay the Preds didn't get swept!

Man, I don’t know what to tell you-

I am devastated and demoralized over the gut wrenching loss last night and the fact that we are down 3-1 in the series.

But I am not all that disappointed in the way we have played, considering the circumstances. And I don't see how any reasonable fan could be.

It is not black and white- not all 3-1 deficits are equal- we could be down 3-1 and have 3 blowout losses- THEN I would be disappointed and pessimistic about everything.

But considering who we are missing, the way we have played I am actually more convinced now that we have a really good team than I was going in.

 

[Enoch]

Yeah. Drw has a big point. Losing a triple OT game and a double OT game in which we dominated/got screwed by the officials, is drastically different than your typical 1st round exit. I hear your point as well. I think both injuries were just about the worst possible blow we could suffer outside of a star-caliber Rinne injury.

that said, it is more of the same for us as Predator fans, and we all know it.

From an organizational standpoint, we are doing very well. We have a lot of assets. We have forward and defensive prospects. We have a couple of goalie prospects. We have all of our picks outside of a really bad decision to move our first rounder this year. we have plenty of cap space.

We have the tools / space / coaching scheme to do well. We can do well. That said, we do have some question marks and gaping holes that have been present for years.

Winning tomorrow helps. Win a game in Chicago. Then come back home and let's see what happens. Losing in 6 or 7 was always possible at any point with this Hawks team. I don't want to go out in 5.