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Confirmed Trade: [NSH/OTT/COL] Duchene to OTT, Turris to NSH, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Bowers Girard Hammond Kamenev to COL

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Pierce Hawthorne

Pierce Hawthorne

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Karl Eriksson said:
Quality > Quantity
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Debatable. Especially when that Quantity actually has a lot of "quality" to it already, and a lot of potential to increase it's value tenfold.


Honestly dont see how anyone can look at this trade and not say Colorado got the better end of it, along with Nashville.


I mean I hope Ottawa wins a cup in the next two years cause I think Dutchy deserves that, but it's also the only way the trade can be justified as a good one for the Sens.


I dont even think Duchene is a better player then Turris at this point. He's not the same player he was 2 years ago, very clearly lost a step in his foot speed.
 
Vancouver Canucks

Vancouver Canucks

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Pierce Hawthorne said:
Debatable. Especially when that Quantity actually has a lot of "quality" to it already, and a lot of potential to increase it's value tenfold.


Honestly dont see how anyone can look at this trade and not say Colorado got the better end of it, along with Nashville.


I mean I hope Ottawa wins a cup in the next two years cause I think Dutchy deserves that, but it's also the only way the trade can be justified as a good one for the Sens.


I dont even think Duchene is a better player then Turris at this point. He's not the same player he was 2 years ago, very clearly lost a step in his foot speed.
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Turris is a two-way player and is better at that than is Duchene. Duchene, however, has more speed and scoring touch.
 
Freaky Styley

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93LEAFS said:
I think you got a great return, but the odds aren't in your favor of 50% of these guys becoming top 9 forwards or top 4 defenders (anything else is fairly easy to replace). The only blue chipper (and even this is questionable) is Samual Girard. The deal makes sense for Colorado, but it's not a homerun. The odds of a late-first becoming a top 9 forward or top 4 defender in less than 35%.
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I'm not making any bold claims about what any will become, but at this junctor, it is a good deal for the Avs and you agree. I just don't get how there are some people that don't. It's also a lot more than the majority of the posters here anticipated, and yet people still try to put a negative spin on it. I have faith in the Avs scouts so that's why I'm optimistic about the draft picks. If you factor in Colorado's own picks, they will be able to have a very impressive prospect pool this time next year.
 
Balthazar

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93LEAFS said:
I think you got a great return, but the odds aren't in your favor of 50% of these guys becoming top 9 forwards or top 4 defenders (anything else is fairly easy to replace). The only blue chipper (and even this is questionable) is Samual Girard. The deal makes sense for Colorado, but it's not a homerun. The odds of a late-first becoming a top 9 forward or top 4 defender in less than 35%.
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1st 2018
1st 2017 (Bowers)
2nd 2018
2nd 2016 (Girard)
2nd 2014 (Kemenev)
3rd 2018

I'd say the odds are pretty damn good. Whoever thinks it's not a totally insane return for a single player in the cap era doesn't have a clue, it's as simple as that.
 
93LEAFS

93LEAFS

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Vancouver Canucks said:
How so?
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Just look at the average return of players in that range.

For personal interest, I went through every player picked from 2005-12 (a bit too early to classify past that) and classified them. Here is what I got for 26th through 30. I did this in June.

Superstars (0)

Stars (0)

Top line/Top pairing/Starter (4)
Matt Niskanen
Nick Foligno
John Carlson
Evegeni Kuznetsov
Top 4/Top 6/Fringe starter (7)
David Perron
Tyler Ennis
Kyle Palmieri
Charlie Coyle
Brock Nelson
Rickard Rakell
Brady Skjei
3rd liner/5th D/Backup (6)
Steve Downie
Brendan Smith
Simon Despres
Philip Danault
Vladislav Namestinkov (probably deserves a bump now)
Tanner Pearson
4th liner/6th D/flameout/AHL Starter with potential (3)
Emerson Etem
Brendan Gaunce
Stefan Matteau
Outright bust (20)
Matt Pelech
Joe Finley
Vladimir Mihalik
Leland Irving
Ivan Vishnevskiy
Chris Summers
Matt Corrente
Nick Petrecki
Jim O’Brien
Nick Ross
Viktor Tikhanov
Daulten Leveille
Tom McCollum
Dylan Olsen
Carter Ashton
Phillippe Paradis
Mark Visentin
Zach Phillips
Nicklas Jensen
Henrik Samuelsson
 
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Vancouver Canucks

Vancouver Canucks

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93LEAFS said:
Just look at the average return of players in that range.

For personal interest, I went through every player picked from 2005-12 (a bit too early to classify past that) and classified them. Here is what I got. I did this in June.

Superstars (0)

Stars (0)

Top line/Top pairing/Starter (4)
Matt Niskanen
Nick Foligno
John Carlson
Evegeni Kuznetsov
Top 4/Top 6/Fringe starter (7)
David Perron
Tyler Ennis
Kyle Palmieri
Charlie Coyle
Brock Nelson
Rickard Rakell
Brady Skjei
3rd liner/5th D/Backup (6)
Steve Downie
Brendan Smith
Simon Despres
Philip Danault
Vladislav Namestinkov (probably deserves a bump now)
Tanner Pearson
4th liner/6th D/flameout/AHL Starter with potential (3)
Emerson Etem
Brendan Gaunce
Stefan Matteau
Outright bust (20)
Matt Pelech
Joe Finley
Vladimir Mihalik
Leland Irving
Ivan Vishnevskiy
Chris Summers
Matt Corrente
Nick Petrecki
Jim O’Brien
Nick Ross
Viktor Tikhanov
Daulten Leveille
Tom McCollum
Dylan Olsen
Carter Ashton
Phillippe Paradis
Mark Visentin
Zach Phillips
Nicklas Jensen
Henrik Samuelsson
Click to expand...

Sounds fair. I didn't know where you came up with the 35%.
 
Riptide

Riptide

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Freaky Styley said:
I understand that no one has a crystal ball but I find it funny/curious that there is anyone that thinks the Avs didn't make out well here. I mean even if only half of the "futures" hit, that's still 3 solid young players. It could be 4-5, with 1 impact player going the other way. Anyway you slice it, trading 1 asset for 7, with half having high-end potential, that is an amazing deal - especially when you look at the status of the player you are trading in Duchene. Sakic did an amazing job, and I don't think enough crow is being eaten by the people who ripped on him this past season, including Avs fans. Even Duchene called Sakic a 'near perfect' person throughout this whole mess.

I think all teams/fans are happy with this one. Ottawa is taking the biggest risk, but still got the best player and their scouting staff put them in the position to make this deal.
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They did okay, but I don't think they did "great" like many have posted.

Unless you consider a cap dump an asset, I'd say it was 6 assets, not 7. And even then the 3rd is kinda meh - even more so as it's a 2019 3rd - which means it's likely 5-6 years away from being an NHL asset. Some good players can be drafted there, but the success percentage rate isn't all that great. Which means you're down to five real/"quality" assets (Kamanev, Bowers, Girard, 1st, 2nd). Of that, I'd be surprised if even two became top 6 players/top 4D.

There's a reason why the saying is "the team who got the best player is the team that won the trade". Because by large, most of these deals for pure futures do not work out for the team receiving them - it's why the other team is willing to give them up in the first place. There's a reason why Sakic was pushing very very hard to get established NHL talent in return - because the likely hood of them busting is significantly less then someone with only 11 pro games to their name, or a late 1st & 2nd round pick.
 
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MisterNoItAll

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Ottawa won't be any better, and Duchene is overrated. So is Turris for Nash. Both are soft, floating, undersized forwards.
 
Freaky Styley

Freaky Styley

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redlinerapport.blogspot.ca
Riptide said:
They did okay, but I don't think they did "great" like many have posted.

Unless you consider a cap dump an asset, I'd say it was 6 assets, not 7. And even then the 3rd is kinda meh - even more so as it's a 2019 3rd - which means it's likely 5-6 years away from being an NHL asset. Some good players can be drafted there, but the success percentage rate isn't all that great. Which means you're down to real assets (Kamanev, Bowers, Girard, 1st, 2nd). Of that, I'd be surprised if even two became top 6 players/top 4D.

There's a reason why the saying is "the team who got the best player is the team that won the trade". Because by large, most of these deals for pure futures do not work out for the team receiving them - it's why the other team is willing to give them up in the first place. There's a reason why Sakic was pushing very very hard to get established NHL talent in return - because the likely hood of them busting is significantly less then someone with only 11 pro games to their name, or a late 1st & 2nd round pick.
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Hammond actually helps the Avs this year as they are light on goalie depth and in serious trouble if Varly or Bernier go down to injury so he adds insurance and serves a purpose in this deal . The Avs also gained about $5M in cap space so you can factor that in too if you'd like. Ottawa definitely got the best player in the deal, but like I mentioned they took the biggest risk. What if Duchene doesn't re-sign? Colorado's assets could be contributing long after Duchene's time with the Sens. Spin it however you want, but it was definitely a haul for the Avs.
 

Battle Lin

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Dec 18, 2015
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pretty nice and aggressive move from sens, hey they just made a final 4 appearance and that aint easy...so they probably feel they can win...gave up too many future pieces yes, but an upgrade is an upgrade, they got a great player for the run
 
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