Confirmed Signing with Link: [NSH] Matt Duchene signs with the Predators (7 years, $8M AAV)

[AuraSphere]

This is the funniest ongoing theory on this site

Except it's not a theory, its a fact. Dubas was discussing it just the other day in his press conference.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Dubas, the guy that got the biggest free agent in the league last offseason?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It is absolutely bonkers that Duchene signed this contract without a NMC. Given what some UFAs attracted, it would be hard to believe that he didn't take a huge discount to go to Nashville. With that discount, a NMC should be very important because it ensures that the player didn't just take a discount only to get moved a few years later.

 

[Dekes For Days]

and often at somewhat lower than UFA market value to stay in San Jose and LA.

Who has taken considerably less to stay in San Jose/LA?

San Jose just lost their Captain to sign for less in Dallas...
They also just had to overpay Karlsson massively...
Doughty just signed for 11m...

Alex Edler just re-signed with Vancouver for less than he could have gotten elsewhere, and cost of living is obviously high there. How does that fit in with your narrative?

Edler is 33 years old, and just signed for 6m. I don't see how that's a significant discount.

 

[glovesave_35]

Who has taken considerably less to stay in San Jose/LA?

San Jose just lost their Captain to sign for less in Dallas...
They also just had to overpay Karlsson massively...
Doughty just signed for 11m...


Edler is 33 years old, and just signed for 6m. I don't see how that's a significant discount.

Edler could have gotten more on the open market, I'm sure. He took a short term deal also, which who knows if he would have to another team.

And regarding the Cali teams, I think it's pretty obvious Jumbo Joe never held San Jose's feet to the fire. Nor did Pavelski. Getzlaf was well paid but never eye popping numbers. All could have gotten more elsewhere.

And don't bring up Pavelski as your example. He's 35. He was underpaid relative to his peers when he signed his previous contract.

Karlsson and Doughty are Norris winners. They cost a lot. Karlsson is the highest scoring D man of this generation, he is appropriately paid. His teammate and fellow Norris winner is underpaid.

 

[The Macho King]

This was probably the best deal of FA day, which is crazy since it's not that great of a deal.

 

[ThirdManIn]

He called the FSB though

I have so many questions...

Ah you got the joke

 

[Dekes For Days]

Edler could have gotten more on the open market, I'm sure. He took a short term deal also, which who knows if he would have to another team.

He took about the same cap % wise as he did 6 years ago when he signed, despite now being 33. He took the same as highly coveted RHD Myers, and will probably make similar to Gardiner. Both of these guys were considered the most valuable in the FA market. I don't know what makes you think he would have got a significant amount more.

And regarding the Cali teams, I think it's pretty obvious Jumbo Joe never held San Jose's feet to the fire.

"Not holding feet to the fire" as a long time veteran of the team and captain is not the same as taking a massive discount, especially for a place you have never played. Thornton got a contract worth 8.7m today at age 38 after a 7 goal, 50 point season, so he did pretty well.

Nor did Pavelski.

Pavelski was a 60 point player when he signed, and had just come off a 31 points in 48 game season. He signed for a contract worth 7.6m today. His contract was not under value. He just became a better player.

Getzlaf was well paid but never eye popping numbers. All could have gotten more elsewhere.

Getzlaf's contract is the equivalent of 10.5m today. It was an overpayment if anything. He had had a 57 point season a year prior.

And don't bring up Pavelski as your example. He's 35. He was underpaid relative to his peers when he signed his previous contract.

No he wasn't. Look above. You don't seem to understand that players sign for what they're worth at the time, and then sometimes either improvement or cap inflation makes their contract look better. That's not the same as signing for a heavily discounted contract when it is signed. Also, Pavelski just scored 38 goals and was expected to get a lot more than 7m, so yes, he is underpaid.

Karlsson and Doughty are Norris winners. They cost a lot. Karlsson is the highest scoring D man of this generation, he is appropriately paid. His teammate and fellow Norris winner is underpaid.

Both are overpaid, but more importantly, are not underpaid.
Burn's contract is the equivalent of 9m today. I think that was around when he was being switched over from forward to D, and Subban's contract was the D market ceiling. He had not won the Norris yet. Subban had. It was a fair contract.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Did we ever find out more about Turris and the feds?

turris easily. he is the worst player that a team would probably trade for because he is better than some scrub and can sort of fill a gap in the lineup. And he's a snitch. He ratted out 4 of my friends to the FBI

This is amazing.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Nice signing, would have loved to get him in Montreal for that deal, or even 9.5 per year.

 

[BigFatCat999]

OK, the tax thing is a straw man. Canadians whine about American taxes. Americans whine about the endorsement opportunities in Canada. Every market has it's advantages it's up to the GM's staff to sell those opportunities.

And when a GM opens his mouth it's like listening to a politician; fake news and empty promises. They cover themselves by saying they offered more. It's like a 6 year old cleaning up their mess and saying 'I tried!' Players love it because it's the GM's admitting they have money to spend.

 

[glovesave_35]

He took about the same cap % wise as he did 6 years ago when he signed, despite now being 33. He took the same as highly coveted RHD Myers, and will probably make similar to Gardiner. Both of these guys were considered the most valuable in the FA market. I don't know what makes you think he would have got a significant amount more.


"Not holding feet to the fire" as a long time veteran of the team and captain is not the same as taking a massive discount, especially for a place you have never played. Thornton got a contract worth 8.7m today at age 38 after a 7 goal, 50 point season, so he did pretty well.


Pavelski was a 60 point player when he signed, and had just come off a 31 points in 48 game season. He signed for a contract worth 7.6m today. His contract was not under value. He just became a better player.


Getzlaf's contract is the equivalent of 10.5m today. It was an overpayment if anything. He had had a 57 point season a year prior.


No he wasn't. Look above. You don't seem to understand that players sign for what they're worth at the time, and then sometimes either improvement or cap inflation makes their contract look better. That's not the same as signing for a heavily discounted contract when it is signed. Also, Pavelski just scored 38 goals and was expected to get a lot more than 7m, so yes, he is underpaid.


Both are overpaid, but more importantly, are not underpaid.
Burn's contract is the equivalent of 9m today. I think that was around when he was being switched over from forward to D, and Subban's contract was the D market ceiling. He had not won the Norris yet. Subban had. It was a fair contract.

It's late here and I'm not going to debate each single comment above, but Burns is definitely not overpaid. That is lunacy, and by even bringing it up it makes you look like you have an agenda.

The comparable contracts to Pavelski's last contract were players mostly below Pavelski's caliber - Dubinksey, Callahan, Filppula. His contract may have looked better after a couple years due to his play but it was a good deal for San Jose at the time.

Let's dispel something right now. I never said "massive discount". I said they signed fair contracts, or sometimes a bit below market value. Don't put words in my mouth to spin your argument.

And with regards to Pavelski, he's 35. Yes, he's coming off 38 goals, that's why he got 7 million dollars until his 37 year old season, when nobody thinks he will score 38 goals. Sharks fans generally agree that 7 was too rich for their blood. 3 X 7M for an aging star player sounds fair. It sounds like Pavelski had a short list of teams he was interested in, with the other being Tampa. Tampa is obviously in a no state tax state also, but they also just won the Pres trophy and are generally considered to be a favorite to win the Cup soon. Dallas was a game 7 away from going to the conference finals. It's obvious that it wasn't only money Pavelski was after, but rather a combination of winning situation and money.

And then we get to Duchene, who could have gotten more somewhere else most likely. But he signed with a team that has been really good lately. These southern teams with no state income tax don't have hometown kids hoping to sign with their childhood teams, or play 30 minutes away from their best friend's house. How many Canadian teams fit that criteria?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Burns is definitely not overpaid. That is lunacy, and by even bringing it up it makes you look like you have an agenda.

I never said Burns was overpaid. Read again.
He got market value relative to the player he was at the time, what he had proven, and the D market at the time.

The comparable contracts to Pavelski's last contract were players mostly below Pavelski's caliber - Dubinksey, Callahan, Filppula. His contract may have looked better after a couple years due to his play but it was a good deal for San Jose at the time.

It was a good deal because it was clear that his production would increase. But it wasn't a discount because he hadn't put up the production to earn more than that.

It's easy to point to players that have fallen off a cliff in comparison to one that has taken his play to a whole new level since they all signed.

I said they signed fair contracts, or sometimes a bit below market value. Don't put words in my mouth to spin your argument.

I'm not spinning anything. I was talking about massive discounts. So I'm not sure why you came in here and started complaining about how that's not fair because San Jose and LA get... market value contracts? What? If you're not arguing that they got huge discounts there, I'm not sure of the relevance to what I was saying.

And with regards to Pavelski, he's 35. Yes, he's coming off 38 goals, that's why he got 7 million dollars until his 37 year old season, when nobody thinks he will score 38 goals.

2 years ago, 38 year old Marleau, coming off of a 27 goal, 46 point season, signed the equivalent of a 6.8m X 3 year contract which was also a 35+ contract.
35 year old Pavelski, captain, coming off of a 38 goal, 64 point season (pace of 42 goals, 70 points), signed a 7m X 3 year contract which was not a 35+ contract.

Does that seem equal to you?

It sounds like Pavelski had a short list of teams he was interested in, with the other being Tampa. Tampa is obviously in a no state tax state also

Weird how with all of the teams out there that wanted him, including a ton of good playoff teams, he strongly considered 2 of the 5 no-tax cities, and 0 of the 26 higher-tax cities, even though Tampa couldn't even afford him at a massive discount anyway.

Interesting how that happens...

How many Canadian teams fit that criteria?

Again, everywhere has advantages and disadvantages that influence desire to go somewhere. Only 5 cities have advantages that influence desire to go there and consistently get massive discounts at the same time. When you operate in a league where the single biggest limiting factor on the quality of a team is the salary cap, that is an issue.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

turris easily. he is the worst player that a team would probably trade for because he is better than some scrub and can sort of fill a gap in the lineup. And he's a snitch. He ratted out 4 of my friends to the FBI

This post comes with a morning question... “How high we’re you last night?”

“Conspiracy theories on a hockey board high...”

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

He took about the same cap % wise as he did 6 years ago when he signed, despite now being 33. He took the same as highly coveted RHD Myers, and will probably make similar to Gardiner. Both of these guys were considered the most valuable in the FA market. I don't know what makes you think he would have got a significant amount more.


"Not holding feet to the fire" as a long time veteran of the team and captain is not the same as taking a massive discount, especially for a place you have never played. Thornton got a contract worth 8.7m today at age 38 after a 7 goal, 50 point season, so he did pretty well.


Pavelski was a 60 point player when he signed, and had just come off a 31 points in 48 game season. He signed for a contract worth 7.6m today. His contract was not under value. He just became a better player.


Getzlaf's contract is the equivalent of 10.5m today. It was an overpayment if anything. He had had a 57 point season a year prior.


No he wasn't. Look above. You don't seem to understand that players sign for what they're worth at the time, and then sometimes either improvement or cap inflation makes their contract look better. That's not the same as signing for a heavily discounted contract when it is signed. Also, Pavelski just scored 38 goals and was expected to get a lot more than 7m, so yes, he is underpaid.


Both are overpaid, but more importantly, are not underpaid.
Burn's contract is the equivalent of 9m today. I think that was around when he was being switched over from forward to D, and Subban's contract was the D market ceiling. He had not won the Norris yet. Subban had. It was a fair contract.

Karlsson and Doughty are overpaid but Auston Matthews is not? Oh my god.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Karlsson and Doughty are overpaid but Auston Matthews is not? Oh my god.

Yes, they are. Karlsson especially.

Please stop bringing Matthews into unrelated threads.

 

[triggrman]

Did we ever find out more about Turris and the feds?



This is amazing.

I told you.

Snitches get stitches and wind up in ditches...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I come back to this thread regularly for Kyle Turris snitching info only

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yes, they are. Karlsson especially.

Please stop bringing Matthews into unrelated threads.

Karlsson got less than the average Norris Trophy winner in the cap era on their first contract after winning the award . When you adjust for production he’s by far the lowest paid Norris winner in the cap era. And Burns, who was the clear Norris front runner and won his 4 months after signing, is by far paid less than any of those guys.

Lots of players in San Jose have taken discounts; you know that damn well as you’re in the Labanc thread crying circumvention. His contract was not the first of his kind in San Jose and it won’t be the last.

When it’s a tax free state team who gets a discount, it’s unfair because of taxes. When a tax heavy state team gets a discount, it’s circumvention. Maybe other teams just have cultures in place where players take discounts?

 

[benedictTavares]

Everybody is overpaid except the players on my team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

you know that damn well as you’re in the Labanc thread crying circumvention.

Everyone is in that thread crying circumvention because it's quite obviously circumvention.

What does this have to do with Duchene?

His contract was not the first of his kind in San Jose and it won’t be the last.

His contract is most definitely the first of it's kind. It is the most undervalued contract we have seen in the cap era.

What does this have to do with Duchene?

When it’s a tax free state team who gets a discount, it’s unfair because of taxes. When a tax heavy state team gets a discount, it’s circumvention.

No. Tax-free states get massive discounts on most of their players due to taxes, and while not direct circumvention by the team, it creates a forced inequality in the cap system that will eventually be fixed, as past inequalities have.

This has no relevance to whether in one single instance, a team directly broke the rules of the CBA and signed one single player to a discount never seen before that makes no logical sense, because of outside arrangements.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Everyone is in that thread crying circumvention because it's quite obviously circumvention.

What does this have to do with Duchene?


His contract is most definitely the first of it's kind. It is the most undervalued contract we have seen in the cap era.

What does this have to do with Duchene?


No. Tax-free states get massive discounts on most of their players due to taxes, and while not direct circumvention by the team, it creates a forced inequality in the cap system that will eventually be fixed, as past inequalities have.

This has no relevance to whether in one single instance, a team directly broke the rules of the CBA and signed one single player to a discount never seen before that makes no logical sense, because of outside arrangements.

Labanc has everything to do with this thread because you spent all of it saying that San Jose doesn’t get discounts. Labanc isn’t even the biggest discount San Jose has received on an RFA either; Jonathan Cheechoo took $15M/5Y in the middle of a Rocket Richard season, era-adjusted that is around $6.3M today which is still simply absurd. Labanc is just another example of a discount and the fact that you’re calling circumvention on that shows you are just moving the goal posts to fit your agenda that anybody who gets a discount is benefitting from an unfair advantage. Doug Wilson is one of the only GMs who never signed a Luongo-esque back diving cap circumvention contracts back in the days where those were all the rage, he’s been the GM of the Sharks for 16 years and has never committed cap circumvention.

The fact is that some teams have a culture in place where their players take discounts. This applies to tax free states and heavy tax states. Nashville is one of those teams that has that culture in place, San Jose is as well even if the other poster didn’t give the best examples. They’ve got a few overpayments like Evander Kane on their books and that’s no different from Nashville carrying overpaid players like Bonino, Johansen, and Turris. But these teams still have a culture in place which leads to players taking discounts and it doesn’t automatically mean circumvention or unfair tax advantages.

The worst contract of the UFA period, Sergei Bobrovsky? Signed by a tax free team. The 2nd worst contract of the UFA period, Anton Stralman? Signed by a tax free team. Vegas is a tax free team and they are currently in cap hell because they spent nearly $5M last summer on Ryan Reaves and Nick Holden.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Labanc has everything to do with this thread because you spent all of it saying that San Jose doesn’t get discounts.

They don't. Certainly not to the same extent. An outlier that doesn't make logical sense outside of direct cap circumvention doesn't change that.

And no, I made a few posts until you decided to jump in.

Labanc isn’t even the biggest discount San Jose has received on an RFA either

Yes it is. It's the biggest discount anybody has received ever.

Jonathan Cheechoo took $15M/5Y in the middle of a Rocket Richard season, era-adjusted that is around $6.3M today which is still simply absurd.

That's not more of a discount. Not even close.

Labanc is just another example of a discount and the fact that you’re calling circumvention on that shows you are just moving the goal posts to fit your agenda that anybody who gets a discount is benefitting from an unfair advantage.

Lol, it's not moving the goalposts at all. They are entirely different situations that have no relevance to each other. There is more than one type of cap circumvention. The tax advantage is not even direct circumvention. It's within the rules; it just creates an imbalance that will need to be fixed like previous imbalances.

Backdoor agreements are quite literally direct cap circumvention. It's whether they can prove it.

Doug Wilson is one of the only GMs who never signed a Luongo-esque back diving cap circumvention contracts back in the days where those were all the rage

I don't really know why this is relevant, but neither did Toronto.

he’s been the GM of the Sharks for 16 years and has never committed cap circumvention.

Until now.

The fact is that some teams have a culture in place where their players take discounts. This applies to tax free states and heavy tax states.

I know you're not this naive.

The worst contract of the UFA period, Sergei Bobrovsky? Signed by a tax free team. The 2nd worst contract of the UFA period, Anton Stralman? Signed by a tax free team.

Those are not even close to the worst contracts of the UFA period.

Vegas is a tax free team and they are currently in cap hell because they spent nearly $5M last summer on Ryan Reaves and Nick Holden.

Lol. They are in cap hell because the expansion draft gave them a bunch of players on the verge of breaking out that needed to be re-signed at the same time, and then they spent the next year trading for/signing an entire 1st line (and getting discounts).

Unless you're talking about Duchene, you should do it in a different thread. You already bumped this up after multiple days of it dying to make a stupid comment against me. Let the obsession go.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

They don't. Certainly not to the same extent. An outlier that doesn't make logical sense outside of direct cap circumvention doesn't change that.


Yes it is. It's the biggest discount anybody has received ever.


That's not more of a discount. Not even close.


Lol, it's not moving the goalposts at all. They are entirely different situations that have no relevance to each other. There is more than one type of cap circumvention. The tax advantage is not even direct circumvention. It's within the rules; it just creates an imbalance that will need to be fixed like previous imbalances.

Backdoor agreements are quite literally direct cap circumvention. It's whether they can prove it.


I don't really know why this is relevant, but neither did Toronto.


Until now.


I know you're not this naive.


Those are not even close to the worst contracts of the UFA period.


Lol. They are in cap hell because the expansion draft gave them a bunch of players on the verge of breaking out that needed to be re-signed at the same time, and then they spent the next year trading for/signing an entire 1st line (and getting discounts).

Unless you're talking about Duchene, you should do it in a different thread. You already bumped this up after multiple days of it dying to make a stupid comment against me. Let the obsession go.

I find it impressive how you nearly never provide any sort of evidence to support your viewpoint. Regarding Stralman and Bobrovsky, for example, you just "those are not even close to the worst contracts". You don't provide any contracts that are worse. You don't explain why those contracts aren't terrible. They're just "not even close" to the worst contracts of the UFA period. I give you examples of Sharks players taking discounts, tell you that San Jose receives plenty of discounts, and all you can say is "they don't."

Now that a player gives them an absurd discount - one that you refer to as "the biggest discount that anybody has received ever", suddenly it's "cap circumvention, due to a "backdoor agreement" that you have no sort of evidence to provide. Doug Wilson's tenure is relevant because he's never been one to circumvent the cap and he didn't do it here, the player just made a bet on himself and did the team a favor. Just as plenty of Sharks players have done in the past.

Vegas is currently spending a $11,975,000 on three players who they didn't select in the expansion draft; Max Pacioretty, Nick Holden, and Ryan Reaves. All three of them were external acquisitions who signed a contract to play hockey in the tax free state of Vegas, and all three of their contracts are quite ugly. How the f*** did they get a discount on that first line with Pacioretty? Please, oh please tell me how the f*** a goal scorer coming off a 17 goal season took a discount by signing for $7M/4Y.

There is no obsession here. I read all of the threads and I noticed you in this one making stupid and inaccurate comments about my team. You run around all of these threads making horrible assertions that are generally supported by no support of evidence and you NEVER provide any evidence. You NEVER make counter arguments, you just pick apart pieces of people's posts and take up half of the page posting "Nope." or providing a similar vapid retort underneath what they have to say.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Just here for the FBI updates.