Norris Trophy 22/23 - A revisit

[SpookyTsuki]

Gotta be Karlsson.

 

[Signupnow]

How do we evaluate Heiskanen's season?

Average. He's looking better than he is being the guys above him is either injured or partly. Would be on Sweden 3rd paring.

 

[wetcoast]

How do we evaluate Heiskanen's season?

He is making a case to be a finalist.

His run in March has been excellent.

 

[wetcoast]

Average. He's looking better than he is being the guys above him is either injured or partly. Would be on Sweden 3rd paring.

Seriously dude he is the #1 Dman in Dallas and it isn't even really close and sure he wouldn't make the Swedish team....because he is Finnish.

 

[kranuck]

Unless someone gets hot down the stretch, I'd bet this year's actual winner will be one of Fox, Makar, or Hamilton since they all play for contenders. If I had to put money on someone today, it would be Hamilton.

Karlsson will get a lot of 2nd/3rd place votes, but Karlsson's reputation of being poor defensively and playing on one of the worst teams in the leagues will prevent him from actually winning the Norris.

Similarly with Dahlin and Hughes, exceptional seasons but I can't think of the last time a Norris winner was on a non-playoff team. Again, will get plenty of 2nd/3rd place votes. If Buffalo squeaks into the playoffs, I could see a case for Dahlin being made.

Morrissey doesn't have the reputation and isn't far enough ahead of the pack to win.

Would suck to see another Norris stolen from Karlsson by moronic journalists.

That is literally what happened to Josi last year. He had the most points in 30 years and did not win it. So yes, there is a real chance of him not winning it. Not saying he should not, just saying we saw it happened a year ago.

Yeah but Makar isn’t the shiny new toy this year.

 

[kranuck]

A few other stats if you’re looking for comparisons:

Karlsson:
CF%: 54.34
GF%: 51.76
XGF%: 54.73
Athletics Game valve score: 4.0 (23rd in NHL)
Athletics offensive ranking: 99/100
Athletics defensive ranking: 15/100

Makar:
CF%: 56.29
GF%: 59.77
XGF%: 56.46
Athletics Game Value score: 5.5 (3rd in NHL)
Athletics offensive ranking: 91/100
Athletics defensive ranking: 95/100

GSVA is a garbage stat and anyone who uses it immediately loses all credibility.

Dom is a hot take machine not a credible analyst.

 

[avsfan9]

GSVA is a garbage stat and anyone who uses it immediately loses all credibility.

Dom is a hot take machine not a credible analyst.

Yeah it’s garbage when it doesn’t fit your narrative.

 

[canuckking1]

Yeah it’s garbage when it doesn’t fit your narrative.

The poster didn’t really word it well but there’s major flaws in those GSVA cards I’ve seen. I don’t think they accurately isolate for individual ability and team impacts them. I mean one GSVA card I saw said that Nurse provides 4X the offensive impact as Quinn Hughes or that Auston Matthews has been a top 5 player this year by GSVA/game and I don’t think you’d find that many leaf fans that agree with it.

 

[Breakers]

I mean you can see Makar's impact in comparison with Karlsson
How about Lindholm though

 

[Regal]

Yeah it’s garbage when it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Nah, from what I’ve seen it’s a pretty dumb stat. It’s attempting to put a whole bunch of unrelated stats together and giving them all different weights without any real reasoning beyond it seems like this is how valuable a goal is compared to a block. It’s essentially how well you fill up a box score. At least things like GAR and xGAR focus on the the principle of how well you impact goals for and against rather than giving extra credit for how you go about tilting the ice, even if there’s still flaws in relation to separating the impact of teammates and opponents.

 

[Buck Naked]

I mean you can see Makar's impact in comparison with Karlsson
How about Lindholm though
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The award is all about overall impact, and I guess you can see who measures the highest..

 

[norrisnick]

The award is all about overall impact, and I guess you can see who measures the highest..

You might want to re-read the criteria.

"defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"

Demonstrates the greatest all-around ability.
Not
Has highest impact by min-maxing offense.

 

[wetcoast]

You might want to re-read the criteria.

"defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"

Demonstrates the greatest all-around ability.
Not
Has highest impact by min-maxing offense.

It seems that a lot of people in this thread want to focus on offense which is fair because we are talking about a Dman award here, defense should apply to the Art Ross perhaps.....

 

[Golden_Jet]

You might want to re-read the criteria.

"defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"

Demonstrates the greatest all-around ability.
Not
Has highest impact by min-maxing offense.

Just Like the Hart is supposed to be most valuable to his team, not league mvp.

 

[Regal]

You might want to re-read the criteria.

"defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"

Demonstrates the greatest all-around ability.
Not
Has highest impact by min-maxing offense.

Greatest all around ability can easily be determined to be highest overall impact regardless of how it’s achieved

 

[kranuck]

The poster didn’t really word it well but there’s major flaws in those GSVA cards I’ve seen. I don’t think they accurately isolate for individual ability and team impacts them. I mean one GSVA card I saw said that Nurse provides 4X the offensive impact as Quinn Hughes or that Auston Matthews has been a top 5 player this year by GSVA/game and I don’t think you’d find that many leaf fans that agree with it.

Nah, from what I’ve seen it’s a pretty dumb stat. It’s attempting to put a whole bunch of unrelated stats together and giving them all different weights without any real reasoning beyond it seems like this is how valuable a goal is compared to a block. It’s essentially how well you fill up a box score. At least things like GAR and xGAR focus on the the principle of how well you impact goals for and against rather than giving extra credit for how you go about tilting the ice, even if there’s still flaws in relation to separating the impact of teammates and opponents.

Yeah it's taking stats that are already pretty flawed and require a lot of context to evaluate and boiling them down to a single number that doesn't really signify anything except Doms hot takes.

It's dumb. Flawed idea built on a flawed foundation. Especially for defensive play.

 

[smoneil]

Stories don't win awards, but they can push a candidate over the line. EK, reviving his career and putting up huge numbers at his age after some of the things he's had to deal with over the last few years? That's a good story. I'd be shocked if he didn't win the Norris decisively, and I wouldn't begrudge him for it one bit.