Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Nah.
Dude will break a leg, apply some icy hot during the intermission, and be out dropping in front of shots the next period.
Player Discussion Noah Hanifin
- Thread starter JurassicTunga
- Start date
Dude will break a leg, apply some icy hot during the intermission, and be out dropping in front of shots the next period.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Flames stopped the negotiations earlier this season, not Hanifin. Everyone is saying he was asked to think about it and give the Flames an answer when he got back from break. Seems ironic the first game is on Boston. Wouldn’t shock me to see him sign a deal there with family present.
Some Other Flame
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2010
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According to LeBrun, Hanifin turned them down. At the 2:37 mark:
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Kind of really weird that there's so little noise about Hanifin one way or the other. Is he really so indecisive or is the market for him just that non-existent
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Man there is literally a 0% chance we’re getting a first and top prospect for Hanifin lol. You’re usually pretty realistic but we have 0 leverage in this situation. We either lose him for nothing or take a similar package but slightly better package than Lindholm. Name the last time a rental D (even with extension) went for a top prospect
when was the last time there was a 27 YO top 4 rental dman traded at the deadline but you are right there is not a 1st AND a top prospect in the offing but it might be a top prospect instead of the 1st. I took a quick look and there has not really been a dman like Hanifin traded at the deadline recently (last 6 deadlines) so it is hard to say what will happen. Chiarot got a 1st, 4th and a prospect.
Hampus Lindholm is by far the best comparable imo. Agreed though. 1st and good prospect or a better prospect and no pick. Still don’t think we get an elite prospect tho
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Putting Hanifin wanting to stay or not aside for a moment. I think I would rather re-sign him than trade him.
Lets take the rumoured 7.5M*8 Years as a given, so for the sake of argument. Lets also assume Tanev is moved because that is looking pretty likely.
1. Hanifin will be 34 when this deal finishes. Older than ideal to be certain but honestly, not too bad.
2. What is the going rate for a 2-3D right now? It might not be 7.5M but I don't think it is that far off right now. Keep in mind cap will continue to rise and 7M might be the going rate for a 4D by the time this deal is over.
3. Hanifin is young enough that we might not be seeing prime Hanifin yet. High-end defenders like Hanifin seem to be peaking later between 28-31 years old. Having Hanifin locked up through his prime would be pretty nice.
4. Finally, and I think this is the most important argument: Weegar, Andersson, Kylington. That is our D core without Hanifin. I don't see anyone in the system who is challenging for a top 4 spot in the next year, probably not even the next 2 years. If we don't have Hanifin we are definitely going to go out and sign someone to round out the top 4. This is also putting aside we don't really know how Kylington is going to look long term as he has just returned.
Could Hanifin return a haul? Maybe, but I think unlike dealing Lindholm, dealing Hanifin will be a very strong signal that this is a full on rebuild and that has a lot of other implications.
Lets take the rumoured 7.5M*8 Years as a given, so for the sake of argument. Lets also assume Tanev is moved because that is looking pretty likely.
1. Hanifin will be 34 when this deal finishes. Older than ideal to be certain but honestly, not too bad.
2. What is the going rate for a 2-3D right now? It might not be 7.5M but I don't think it is that far off right now. Keep in mind cap will continue to rise and 7M might be the going rate for a 4D by the time this deal is over.
3. Hanifin is young enough that we might not be seeing prime Hanifin yet. High-end defenders like Hanifin seem to be peaking later between 28-31 years old. Having Hanifin locked up through his prime would be pretty nice.
4. Finally, and I think this is the most important argument: Weegar, Andersson, Kylington. That is our D core without Hanifin. I don't see anyone in the system who is challenging for a top 4 spot in the next year, probably not even the next 2 years. If we don't have Hanifin we are definitely going to go out and sign someone to round out the top 4. This is also putting aside we don't really know how Kylington is going to look long term as he has just returned.
Could Hanifin return a haul? Maybe, but I think unlike dealing Lindholm, dealing Hanifin will be a very strong signal that this is a full on rebuild and that has a lot of other implications.
I can see why it would be ok even desirable to extend him BUT its now Feb 6th and he has had that rumoured offer of 8x7.5 for a month or more now. Its time to tell him that he will be traded by the deadline.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Totally agree, again if he doesn't want to sign you gotta make a trade, now.
I just wonder if the door is actually shut on him re-signing.
possibly but I see extending Hanifin having almost as big of a risk as giving a 32 YO a 7 year contract due to the decent chance of him deciding he actually really does want to play in the states
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
I’d do everything possible to sign him. Flames will spend years trying to replace him otherwise. 7.5mil is going to be a steal for a top pairing guy in the near future.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
That could certainly happen mid-way through the deal, but I think unfortunately being a small market team that risk exists with most high-profile players. It sucks but I think you have to just hope it doesn't happen, broadly speaking.
If 7.5 was gonna get him signed he would have signed by now. I get the feeling he is hoping that the Flames will panic, negotiate against themselves and offer north of $8.5 M per
I am on the fence about re-signing Hanifin for all those same reasons, but I don't agree that trading him signals a full on rebuild. We'd still have two veteran top-pair dmen, a bunch of veteran forwards, a vet goalie, etc.
Our D depth would certainly take a hit, but it also wouldn't be nearly as horrible as people make it seem.
Rasmus-Weegar
Kylington-XXXX
Poirier-Pachal
Gilbert-Kuznetsov/Solovyov
Is honestly solid imo (for a team that is not yet a contender). Add a Tanev replacement in FA this summer and that D is alright until Morin and Brzustowicz fill out the final few spots.
I love Hanifin this year and agree that, from a value perspective, we'd probably lose a trade. I don't think a team is giving up a Stankoven level prospect for him, so I think we're stuck in the mid/late 1st+good prospect+2nd range. But I don't think trading him all of a sudden changes anything from a re-tool vs. rebuild perspective. Plus I think he'd have re-signed by now if he wanted to so I think he's gonna be gone.
As an org, I think we need to put all our assets towards a 1C. Whether that means keeping Hanifin and moving other pieces for high draft picks, trading Hanifin for a quality C prospect, making a big quantity for quality trade like St. Louis or O'Reilly/Vegas for Eichel, we just need to find that 1C. And I'm definitely ok trading Hanifin if we get some good assets and can weaponize his cap space.
Ainsy01
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2014
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You make no sense.
Lindholm got a first and Brzustwicz who was ranked as the Canucks 3rd highest prospect. Plus the other pieces obviously.
So by using your same logic they would almost certainly (much higher than 0% at the very least) get a first and a top prospect. Unless your definition of top prospect is like... Bedard or Fantilli.
I'd also argue that Hanifin's value is higher than Lindholm's (this season) as he is on pace for for 43 points compared to Lindholm's 53. Two years younger and a defenseman.
If he went to say a team like Arizona he would easily get a first and Lamoureux, who I really hope they target.
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Ainsy01
Registered User
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There has to be some internal deadline on getting an extension done. I would assume that Conroy and flames management have put their "best" deal on the table, and probably went back and forth a few times after. By all indication, it sounds like the ball is in Hanifin's court, which is why everything is whisper quiet. Hard to drum up any serious trade talk when he could sign the next day.
Deadline is March 8th, I'd fathom a guess that a 3 week time table to get the best deal is realistic for flames management, maybe 2 if they are giving him every waking hour to decide in hopes he signs.
Guessing there's a hard deadline of February 23rd until CGY starts full-on shopping him.
Question - do you think the 8 team no-trade list is provided when requested or is it a live document that agents update every season/month as things transpire around the league/personal lives/etc? I haven't heard anything about the flames asking for his list either.
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Ottawa
Toronto
Vancouver
Montreal
Sharks/Hawks/Jackets/Coyotes???
Hard to guess which two American teams would fill out the bottom 2 of his 8 team trade, after stating publicly he wants to play in the USA.
Would love to see Arizona off that list as I think they can offer the best package.
EDIT: Hawks and Sharks seem less likely than Jackets and Coyotes, but I've been wrong before, Gaudreau
Deadline is March 8th, I'd fathom a guess that a 3 week time table to get the best deal is realistic for flames management, maybe 2 if they are giving him every waking hour to decide in hopes he signs.
Guessing there's a hard deadline of February 23rd until CGY starts full-on shopping him.
Question - do you think the 8 team no-trade list is provided when requested or is it a live document that agents update every season/month as things transpire around the league/personal lives/etc? I haven't heard anything about the flames asking for his list either.
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Ottawa
Toronto
Vancouver
Montreal
Sharks/Hawks/Jackets/Coyotes???
Hard to guess which two American teams would fill out the bottom 2 of his 8 team trade, after stating publicly he wants to play in the USA.
Would love to see Arizona off that list as I think they can offer the best package.
EDIT: Hawks and Sharks seem less likely than Jackets and Coyotes, but I've been wrong before, Gaudreau
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crackdown44
Cold milk cools down hot food
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To add to this, there’s no such thing as a rental D with an extension. He’s either signed or he’s not lmao
- Jan 9, 2009
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I'm in the trade Hanifin camp. He's more valuable as a trade chip than a Flames roster player in the next few years. If the Flames were a contender I'd have a different opinion.
Not at all lol. His value is different than a player with term and is different than a pure rental. If we trade him with an extension his value is still lower than it would be if he had term cause we have way less bargaining power due to the fact that any acquiring team could just get him for free in a few months.
Now obviously they'd be paying a bit of a premium to get him before he goes to the market, but that doesn't make him have the same value as a guy currently signed with term.
The only way to describe this unique sitiaton is a rental D who gets traded with an extension. Completely different than just being signed or not
Sorry I should've clarified what I meant by top prospect. I love Brzustwicz and think he's a very good prospect but I wouldn't call him a top prospect. Obviously it's completely subjective, but to me the top prospect is like the Stankoven, Cooley, Jiricek, Cutter Gauthier, Gabe Perrault tier. Like the clear top prospect on a team and/or top-30 overall in the league. From Vancouver I think it would be Lekkerimaki. Maaaybe Willander too.
Imo Brzustwicz is in that next tier. Same with Lamoureux. Not that A/A+prospect, but that A-/B+ level. I think we could get a 1st+guy like Lamoureux and that would be okay with me, but I think that's about as good of a prospect as we could get. If we want a real diference-maker potential level prospect though, we aren't getting that and a first for Hanifin given his contract status.
joescores
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- Mar 21, 2011
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Hanifin is a rare breed at TDL- not many guys like him been historically available at such crunch time. His numbers are understated as he hasn't played top PP mins consistently all season long.
Think he has been our best D man this season and considering his age I would argue that his value is super high an therefore:
I would expect 2x 1st and an AA prospect.
Think he has been our best D man this season and considering his age I would argue that his value is super high an therefore:
I would expect 2x 1st and an AA prospect.
I agree he is not the normal deadline add but there is no way a buyer goes to 2 1sts plus their best prospect as a pure rental deal maybe if its a sign and trade
BobColesNasalCavity
Registered User
Putting what he wants to do aside, it’s basically a philosophical debate on team building. Trade him for prospects and picks. Keep him to supplement the young guys we already have. In both cases, you can’t go wrong if the price is right.
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
Hanifin IS a young(ish) guy tho, certainly as far as d-men go.
Ainsy01
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2014
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There are 3 ways Conroy can F this up. In order of detriment.
-Trading him for draft picks 2-3 years from now that aren't in the first round. If its a bag full of 2026/2027 conditional seconds from a team like TOR or BOS that would be not great.
-Signing him to an over priced contract for 3-4 years with a NMC. (9x4 with a NMC)
-Letting him walk to free agency,
Ways he can nail it:
-Sign him to a 7x7 and have him part of the re-tool.
-Trade him for a top tier prospect and 1st/2nd round picks, to an average team like Arizona or New Jersey.
This was reported today by Chris Johnston:
TSN: Chris Johnston reports a resolution in the Calgary Flames’ contract negotiations with Noah Hanifin could be coming soon. The agents for the 27-year-old defenseman are expected to meet soon with Flames management to present their final position. Johnston speculated that Hanifin could be moved before the March 8 trade deadline if the two sides fail to reach an agreement on a new contract.
