Speculation: Noah Hanifin on the trade block

[Richard88]

If Calgary trades Hanafin, they need either a top 6 C/RW OR an equivalent RHD coming back

How about something like COL 1st (#24) + Timmins + Zadorov?

I have no idea what Hanifin's value is so please don't crucify me if I've overpaid or underpaid. Just gauging value here, and I appreciate any constructive responses.

 

[treple13]

How about something like COL 1st (#24) + Timmins + Zadorov?

I have no idea what Hanifin's value is so please don't crucify me if I've overpaid or underpaid. Just gauging value here, and I appreciate any constructive responses.

I don't know if the value is off, but I think Calgary would be looking more for a 1 for 1 improvement to our roster. I really don't see an expendable piece on Colorado that would work

 

[Right Wing]

I was thinking more along the lines of
Gaudreau + 2nd and 4th round picks for
18th & 20th overall and one year of Palmieri (who might agree to trade if he knew Hall would sign to be his LW with Monahan in the middle for a run)

Hanifin (LD) for Severson (RD)+ Foote to balance things out. (insurance if Brodie doesn't resign)

Just looked up Buddy (Johny's friend) is UFA so you could have him for free

I think these are fair trades.
Flames get 18,19, 20 overall picks draft-
Braden Schneider
Kayden Guhle
William Wallinder
Great future "D"

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It's not forest vs. trees. Saying Gaudreau is worth 18 and a 4th is flat out ridiculous. IF Flames were interested (which I wouldn't be) in trading him, it'd take 7 and 18 plus more. Using it as "rough value" is preposterous as it's not close. How about the Flames give you 19 for Hughes then if rough value is all that matters?

See #246. I rearranged the pieces to better reflect value, and so that it wasn't a distraction from the concept (actual/main point). Not a Devils fan either.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Hanifin to the Rangers for D'Angelo.

You get your 50-60pt offense driving RD, who could prob be signed as an RFA right now for the same money Hanifin is making.

 

[lawrence]

Hanifin in a OEL package is starting to look likely.

Calgary is not on OELS trade too list.

sorry.

 

[Tkachuky]

Hanifin to the Rangers for D'Angelo.

You get your 50-60pt offense driving RD, who could prob be signed as an RFA right now for the same money Hanifin is making.

He put up those numbers 1 season. Let’s not jump to conclusions. A team doesn’t just trade 50-60pt Dmen. True 50-60pt Dmen. I much rather stick with Hanifin who is still young and has been steady. Plus the extra drama with TDA is not attractive

 

[SakuKoivu11]

He’s expensive for what he brings. $5 mil for 20 points.

 

[Fig]

Flames fans or people that have watched Hanifin play more than 20 games in the past 2 years - what is Hanifin? Is he a 23 yr old d man who is still improving his consistency, d zone play, and offense? Or is he a brain dead, never gonna put it all together, toolsy player, that has plateaued?

Hanifin is a thoroughbred rover. It's slightly different than a offensive minded PMD in that a rover literally goes everywhere on the ice in the d-zone and o-zone. This is a double edged sword. Flames have seen it with another rover in TJ Brodie. The issue/double edged sword is that both are very good skaters, so they can take medium risk chances and can skate back to try and neutralize their mistake without significant difficult. The problem is that the typical rover prototype loves high risk stuff, so if some kind of gamble doesn't work, it's a dangerous chance in the other direction. This is what some may consider a brain fart, but is just a part of the gamble with the style they play. A good d partner and/or coach will anticipate the opposition successfully defending against a rover's push and build that into their defensive responsibilities to minimize the danger of dangerous plays against. Gio does that very well with Brodie, but Hamonic has difficulties covering for these types of plays.

Hanifin has mentioned that he had been playing in a manner that cheated on D to add more offense. But after watching Gio play, he wants to round out the defensive side of his game to be more effective. That's good news. He will continue to develop and develop in a manner that actually doesn't require he totally seal away his rover tendencies.

Gio is an interesting type of dman. He's an offensive minded dman in general and played as such/defensive minded with Hamilton, but with Brodie, due to their chemistry, Gio absorbs a little bit of rover attributes as well. If Hanifin is indeed modeling his game after Gio, I think he can actually imitate Gio well and become a solid #2 borderline #1 for the remainder of his career. Worse case scenario, I see him at least imitating Brodie and that's still a solid 2/3 dman.

I prefer to try and develop him, but if someone gives us an offer we cannot refuse, I'm not going to be obtuse and say no.

 

[Eggtimer]

Gaudreau
Hanifin
B Robinson
2020 2nd
2020 4th

for

18th & 20th
Damon Severson
Kyle Palmieri
Nolan Foote

Too many moving pieces, I don’t want to move Foote.
Gaudreau
Hanifin

for
Severson
Palmeieri
18
Car 2nd

 

[Fig]

Too many moving pieces, I don’t want to move Foote.
Gaudreau
Hanifin

for
Severson
Palmeieri
18
Car 2nd

No.

 

[Right Wing]

Calgary is not on OELS trade too list.

sorry.

Would be a bad move for Flames, glad they’re not on list.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Too many moving pieces, I don’t want to move Foote.
Gaudreau
Hanifin

for
Severson
Palmeieri
18
Car 2nd

What is NJ trading to Carolina to get their 2nd round pick?

 

[bruins4thecup65]

Calgary is not on OELS trade too list.

sorry.

It’s either Boston or Vancouver and I’m thurnking Vancouver

 

[Eggtimer]

What is NJ trading to Carolina to get their 2nd round pick?

Vatanen, my bad , might be a third then

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Vatanen, my bad , might be a third then

It is a 3rd, which is the 84th pick in the draft.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

He put up those numbers 1 season. Let’s not jump to conclusions. A team doesn’t just trade 50-60pt Dmen. True 50-60pt Dmen. I much rather stick with Hanifin who is still young and has been steady. Plus the extra drama with TDA is not attractive

If you look at his offensive production his entire career, it's always been there, and scoring at the rate he does now makes sense given his age and trajectory/skillset. There's actually zero doubt in my mind that DeAngelo will be a 50-60 pt d-man for the better part of his prime, with the potential for more, but the Rangers have a need for LD, and have a ton of depth at RD including one of the top RD prospects in hockey (Nils Lundkvist) almost ready to come over to the NHL. We also have Adam Fox and Jacob Trouba on RD.

DeAngelo isn't a great defender but he'll stack points for you, and I WOULDN'T include him in a trade for just anyone. That's exactly why this trade makes sense as a 1 for 1.

 

[Video Coach]

I thought he looked more dynamic and offensive under Peters. Ward reigned him in and he didn’t get any PP time. I actually would like to see him get a lengthy look on the first PP unit. He’s got high skill but yeah the brain farts are there. I am very reluctant to see him leave though. I think with the right coach he could be scary good.

Having been paired with Hamonic definitely affected his game. Unfortunately that pairing did not work very well. I’d say he has room to grow and of given a good partner he will do so... he’s 23.

your last statement is weird because even if he stays the same, he isn’t brain dead. He’s a solid top 4 guy.

the guy had a +18 season as a 21 year second pair old 6’3 Defencemen who skates like the wind. He absolutely has top pair potential. He’s just inconsistent and it showed this year. But his raw ability is special. Defencemen peak from 24-33 usually. 18 or 20th is laughable. Look at what you got for Blake Coleman. How is Hanifin with 4 years worth significantly less than Coleman for 1 and a half?

He’s got tons of room to grow and he does show flashes of brilliance, so I think there’s tons of potential still there. The second part is not correct in any sense though, even if he plateaued today, he’s still an unspectacular 3/4 D, which has value in its own right.

Hanifin is a thoroughbred rover. It's slightly different than a offensive minded PMD in that a rover literally goes everywhere on the ice in the d-zone and o-zone. This is a double edged sword. Flames have seen it with another rover in TJ Brodie. The issue/double edged sword is that both are very good skaters, so they can take medium risk chances and can skate back to try and neutralize their mistake without significant difficult. The problem is that the typical rover prototype loves high risk stuff, so if some kind of gamble doesn't work, it's a dangerous chance in the other direction. This is what some may consider a brain fart, but is just a part of the gamble with the style they play. A good d partner and/or coach will anticipate the opposition successfully defending against a rover's push and build that into their defensive responsibilities to minimize the danger of dangerous plays against. Gio does that very well with Brodie, but Hamonic has difficulties covering for these types of plays.

Hanifin has mentioned that he had been playing in a manner that cheated on D to add more offense. But after watching Gio play, he wants to round out the defensive side of his game to be more effective. That's good news. He will continue to develop and develop in a manner that actually doesn't require he totally seal away his rover tendencies.

Gio is an interesting type of dman. He's an offensive minded dman in general and played as such/defensive minded with Hamilton, but with Brodie, due to their chemistry, Gio absorbs a little bit of rover attributes as well. If Hanifin is indeed modeling his game after Gio, I think he can actually imitate Gio well and become a solid #2 borderline #1 for the remainder of his career. Worse case scenario, I see him at least imitating Brodie and that's still a solid 2/3 dman.

I prefer to try and develop him, but if someone gives us an offer we cannot refuse, I'm not going to be obtuse and say no.

Thanks for the insight Flames fans!

To clarify - I don't see him as a braindead, plateaued player. I was just reading a lot of posts that seemed to suggest this.

I haven't seen a ton of him but whenever I do I see a great skating, big-framed, steady d man with lots of room to grow. I read some quotes about him wanting to focus recently on his D game but now that he feels better about it he's ready to bring more offense (back) into his game. I'm not sure how much is there but he seems good with the puck.

I see him as a player who will be at worst a steady top 4 d man, and at best a 2-way stud. Either way, as a Habs fan I'm interested but not holding my breath that he'll be available. I had posted earlier about a trade around him and Domi and was at least a little surprised to hear that at least some Flames fans were good with that.

I think Domi is a pure offensive player who needs to keep his passion but round out his 2 way game. I think the Flames would be a good fit as they already have a solid 1C in Monahan, and a great shutdown/2-way C in Backlund. Domi, I think would be a great fit there as a 2C, but would need to keep growing his game. I think he fits with the Flames' identity as a gritty, but skilled player that would fit well with the Bennett's, Tkachuk's etc.

Just not sure why the Flames wouldn't want to build their D around Anderson, Valimaki, and Hanifin, especially considering Valimaki is exempt from the expansion draft, allowing the Flames to protect Hanifin, Anderson, and Giordano. But that means letting Brodie go, and I don't know where they are with that.

Anyway, thanks again for the insight. Much appreciated. What do you guys think of a trade based around Domi and Hanifin?

 

[blankall]

He’s expensive for what he brings. $5 mil for 20 points.

Nevermind that he's a d-man....

Nevermind that he actually got 22 points in a shortened season, and he's averaged over 30 points the last 3 seasons.

 

[Bond]

It’s either Boston or Vancouver and I’m thurnking Vancouver

Thinking or hoping? Lol

 

[Ogi1Kenobi]

If you look at his offensive production his entire career, it's always been there, and scoring at the rate he does now makes sense given his age and trajectory/skillset. There's actually zero doubt in my mind that DeAngelo will be a 50-60 pt d-man for the better part of his prime, with the potential for more, but the Rangers have a need for LD, and have a ton of depth at RD including one of the top RD prospects in hockey (Nils Lundkvist) almost ready to come over to the NHL. We also have Adam Fox and Jacob Trouba on RD.

DeAngelo isn't a great defender but he'll stack points for you, and I WOULDN'T include him in a trade for just anyone. That's exactly why this trade makes sense as a 1 for 1.

After watching the Dallas/Calgary series, the last D-man the Flames need is a guy that is not a great defender.

 

[Fig]

Just not sure why the Flames wouldn't want to build their D around Anderson, Valimaki, and Hanifin, especially considering Valimaki is exempt from the expansion draft, allowing the Flames to protect Hanifin, Anderson, and Giordano. But that means letting Brodie go, and I don't know where they are with that.

Anyway, thanks again for the insight. Much appreciated. What do you guys think of a trade based around Domi and Hanifin?

I really like Domi and I like what he'd theoretically bring to the team, but I don't know if it's a good idea. We would like a 2nd pairing RD with room to grow first, and second top 6 right shot RW. Top 6 C is nice, but that should be plan C only if the first two ideas don't work out.

Another issue with Domi is that his contract has to make sense. Domi at 5.5 AAV+ isn't necessarily the best idea if we still have major holes on D to fill.

---
One of the reasons why Hanifin might be traded is RD. There might be a perfect storm where our LD and RD looks like this:

LD
Gio
Hanifin*
Valimaki
Kylington
---
Mackey
Poolman

RD
Rasmus Andersson
---
Yeselin

If all 3 of Brodie, Hamonic and Stone are out, we have nothing after Andersson for RD, but 4 NHL calibre LD. A Hanifin lateral move to plug a hole is worth exploring to rebalance our d corps.

--
The other issue with our roster is a right shot RW which we have been lacking since 2015. Lindholm is good, but there's rumblings that we might want someone different to play with Gaudreau/Monahan who can build chemistry and drop them to our 2nd line. If we can trade Hanifin for a really good RW, it's worth exploring so we can split Monahan/Lindholm and develop Lindholm at C. However, it was revealed in a bunch of off season interviews, that Backlund and Bennett languish at wing and prefer/need to play at C. I guess in theory we could convert Ryan to RW as he seems to be comfortable at all 3 forward positions and run Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund and Bennett at C assuming we are able to get adequate fillers on RD. Some do feel the lefty/righty importance is overblown.

--
I guess in theory if we acquired a C, we shift one of Monahan and Lindholm back to wing and have two top 6 calibre centres on wing... That's ridiculous centre depth if in theory we are running Backlund, Lindhom/Monahan/Domi/Ryan, Bennett as our C and Monahan, Lindholm, Domi, Ryan as swing wing. It's crazy enough to work I guess if all the C are defensively responsible...

 

[Video Coach]

I really like Domi and I like what he'd theoretically bring to the team, but I don't know if it's a good idea. We would like a 2nd pairing RD with room to grow first, and second top 6 right shot RW. Top 6 C is nice, but that should be plan C only if the first two ideas don't work out.

Another issue with Domi is that his contract has to make sense. Domi at 5.5 AAV+ isn't necessarily the best idea if we still have major holes on D to fill.

---
One of the reasons why Hanifin might be traded is RD. There might be a perfect storm where our LD and RD looks like this:

LD
Gio
Hanifin*
Valimaki
Kylington
---
Mackey
Poolman

RD
Rasmus Andersson
---
Yeselin

If all 3 of Brodie, Hamonic and Stone are out, we have nothing after Andersson for RD, but 4 NHL calibre LD. A Hanifin lateral move to plug a hole is worth exploring to rebalance our d corps.

--
The other issue with our roster is a right shot RW which we have been lacking since 2015. Lindholm is good, but there's rumblings that we might want someone different to play with Gaudreau/Monahan who can build chemistry and drop them to our 2nd line. If we can trade Hanifin for a really good RW, it's worth exploring so we can split Monahan/Lindholm and develop Lindholm at C. However, it was revealed in a bunch of off season interviews, that Backlund and Bennett languish at wing and prefer/need to play at C. I guess in theory we could convert Ryan to RW as he seems to be comfortable at all 3 forward positions and run Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund and Bennett at C assuming we are able to get adequate fillers on RD. Some do feel the lefty/righty importance is overblown.

--
I guess in theory if we acquired a C, we shift one of Monahan and Lindholm back to wing and have two top 6 calibre centres on wing... That's ridiculous centre depth if in theory we are running Backlund, Lindhom/Monahan/Domi/Ryan, Bennett as our C and Monahan, Lindholm, Domi, Ryan as swing wing. It's crazy enough to work I guess if all the C are defensively responsible...

Awesome - thanks. Yes, I see what you mean about RW and RD.

The way I saw it (from the outside), is adding Domi as a 2C allows you to perhaps move Lindholm to the 2nd line (Domi would benefit from having someone else take draws on his weak side), and move Tkachuk up to the top line. I'm just not sure if he can play RW all that well.

Then you can have one of Bennett or Backlund play 3C, and one play 2LW on Domi's line.

I wonder if Gaudreu is the guy to move to get a top like RW or top 4 RD? Seems like it's a matter of time, but once again, I'm not in that market so it's hard for me to know how real the Gaudreau rumours are.

If you move Hanifin, I guess that leaves the door open to keeping Brodie. That allows you to keep Gio-Brodie together and have a 2nd pair of Valimaki-Anderson. Maybe that's asking a lot of Valimaki after a missed season though. But I can see that being a good D core that you can keep through the ED.

So maybe your top 6/4 could look like:

Tkachuk - Monahan - X (traded for Gaudreu)
Bennett - Domi - Lindholm

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Anderson

Does that make sense to you?

In terms of the Domi/Hanifin trade, I could see the Habs adding Kulak to the trade. He may be a nice, cheap option to help ease Valimaki back in. He'd be the off man out in Montreal if Hanifin came over and was a very good top 4 LD in the playoffs after having sort of an inconsistent season. I know the Flames know him pretty well.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

After watching the Dallas/Calgary series, the last D-man the Flames need is a guy that is not a great defender.

It sounded like you guys needed offense on the backend from a RD, and weren't at all happy with Hanifin at LD where you have depth. I wouldn't say ADA is terrible on defense or anything, but he's one of the better offensive d-men in the league so you're not just getting some bum who can't defend. He's going to get you a crapload of quality zone entries and keep the other team pinned in their own end.

 

[Fig]

Awesome - thanks. Yes, I see what you mean about RW and RD.

The way I saw it (from the outside), is adding Domi as a 2C allows you to perhaps move Lindholm to the 2nd line (Domi would benefit from having someone else take draws on his weak side), and move Tkachuk up to the top line. I'm just not sure if he can play RW all that well.

Then you can have one of Bennett or Backlund play 3C, and one play 2LW on Domi's line.

I wonder if Gaudreu is the guy to move to get a top like RW or top 4 RD? Seems like it's a matter of time, but once again, I'm not in that market so it's hard for me to know how real the Gaudreau rumours are.

If you move Hanifin, I guess that leaves the door open to keeping Brodie. That allows you to keep Gio-Brodie together and have a 2nd pair of Valimaki-Anderson. Maybe that's asking a lot of Valimaki after a missed season though. But I can see that being a good D core that you can keep through the ED.

So maybe your top 6/4 could look like:

Tkachuk - Monahan - X (traded for Gaudreu)
Bennett - Domi - Lindholm

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Anderson

Does that make sense to you?

In terms of the Domi/Hanifin trade, I could see the Habs adding Kulak to the trade. He may be a nice, cheap option to help ease Valimaki back in. He'd be the off man out in Montreal if Hanifin came over and was a very good top 4 LD in the playoffs after having sort of an inconsistent season. I know the Flames know him pretty well.

I get where you're coming from and at first glance it seems like a fit, but IMO it won't work well unless we assume Brodie is staying like you've put in on your proposal. I'm not expecting you to know the below because you're not a Flames fan and TBH, I don't think all Flames fan knows the below because they're not weirdo nerds like me.


Tkachuk and Gaudreau have been seen playing RW before, so we'd move them to RW if desperate rather than make lateral moves with them. A line with Monahan + Tkachuk isn't desirable due to the foot speed of those two guys and Gaudreau is small so he can't really make up their speed for them without risking being clobbered, it's a bad fit on paper.

Some feel that JG/Mony is a pairing that should be split, but few are on board with splitting Tkachuk/Backlund pairing. Idea wise, a Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm is a top line calibre line that does a lot of heavy lifting defensively (like the 3M line of yore, but should be superior with Lindholm vs Frolik). This drops JG - Mony - X as the 2nd pairing which can focus on offense. A JG - Mony/Domi line might work as this theoretical 2nd line, but again, too many holes on D if Brodie isn't staying. I'm not completely certain if this is a good line, but it might be fine. JG and Mony needs someone to get in the dirty areas and then run to the front of the net like Hudler and Ferland did. It doesn't need to be a big guy, but I'm not necessarily sure this is Domi's style.

Gaudreau leaving isn't due to the comments of certain Flames fans. IMO if he does move it's only because of his dad's health (had a cardiac event in 2018). I'm sure he'd sit around and be patient and loyal to the Flames org like Hamonic was to the Isles.

Brodie leaving isn't due to cap reasons. He reportedly wants to stay in Calgary, but his wife has MS and he's potentially considering leaving the Flames for a city with better climate so that she is more comfortable. It's not a cap space issue and I think many Flames fans wouldn't mind something around 6 mil AAV, but not much more than that.

We loaned Valimaki and he has been playing 20+ minutes in Finland each night so far. Many Flames fans were hesitant about shoving him immediately on the 2nd pairing, but I think he has proven so far he should be perfectly fine slotting in as the 2nd pairing LD in the same vein as Chychrun. Kulak isn't necessary as we still have Kylington and I'm sure there are other FA/PTO or super low cost LD that we could use to fill the bottom pairing.


Again, I'd love Domi. But I don't think it's prudent to pursue him until we can figure out the D issues on our roster first and that heavily depends on what Brodie decides to do. If we retain Brodie, I'm a lot more comfortable moving Hanifin for top 6 forward. But if Brodie is out, Hanifin for a 2nd pairing RD with upside is much more important to investigate before looking at Domi.