Confirmed Trade: [NJD/MTL] Jake Allen (50% retained) for 2025 cond. 2nd/3rd round pick

[montreal]

So MTL is paying almost $1.7 mil and tying up a retention slot next season for a third round pick? NJ got a fourth round pick for a few hundred thousand. I'm sure MTL fans are glad to be rid of Allen but this is bad value for the return.

I never really understood the plan with Allen as to why not just waive him at the start of the season but whatever. Now they used up 2 retention slots and have 4,268,750M in dead cap space next year for a 3rd and 4th round pick to which they have now have 24 picks between '24/'25 and have made 29 picks, '21/'22/'23.

So it does seem like a lot of cap space and a poor use of 2 retention spots but MB did leave the organization in a total mess.

 

[Wats]

So MTL is paying almost $1.7 mil and tying up a retention slot next season for a third round pick? NJ got a fourth round pick for a few hundred thousand. I'm sure MTL fans are glad to be rid of Allen but this is bad value for the return.

Devils got a 4th from a good team for retaining 1.125M. Habs got a cond. 3rd from a mediocre team with no other goalie signed going into next season with a condition that can get it up to a 2nd if they end up playing him like a 1A. Looking around, not sure retention really returns much more.

Who else were they going to use the retention slot for? Josh Anderson/Gallagher contacts are long term trash. Armia no one wants for free, Dvorak will likely be on LTIR. There's really only one player...Savard.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Allen has rocks for brains

 

[Prairie Habs]

I never really understood the plan with Allen as to why not just waive him at the start of the season but whatever. Now they used up 2 retention slots and have 4,268,750M in dead cap space next year for a 3rd and 4th round pick to which they have now have 24 picks between '24/'25 and have made 29 picks, '21/'22/'23.

So it does seem like a lot of cap space and a poor use of 2 retention spots but MB did leave the organization in a total mess.

If we waived Allen at the start of the year Monty would have had us over a barrel in his contract negotiations.

Ottawa only got a 3rd and a conditional 4th for tarasenko despite him having 17 goals and 41 points in 57 games because he has a NTC. Allen had an 0.892 but we still managed to get a 3rd that might upgrade to a 2nd despite him also have an NTC.

It sucks we had to retain, but I think we did fine on the trade.

 

[My3Sons]

Devils got a 4th from a good team for retaining 1.125M. Habs got a cond. 3rd from a mediocre team with no other goalie signed going into next season with a condition that can get it up to a 2nd if they end up playing him like a 1A. Looking around, not sure retention really returns much more.

Who else were they going to use the retention slot for? Josh Anderson/Gallagher contacts are long term trash. Armia no one wants for free, Dvorak will likely be on LTIR. There's really only one player...Savard.

In real dollars post TDL what did NJ pay for the pick? Maybe $400k? MTL retained about $1.7 mil in real salary/bonus for all of next season. I'm not sure if's that comparable. The cap hit is closer to $1.9 mil. It's not a big deal either way. If MTL fans think paying that much to be rid of Allen and add a third round pick is great value, so be it. I see it differently but that's just me. The retention slot is a hypothetical but it's one less chance to retain next season for whatever that hinders MTL. Clearly MTL didn't see the retention slot being that big of a deal. Obviously some fans thought it was a very big deal given the hooting and hollering that went on initially. The reality is a big meh for both teams when you see the whole picture.

 

[Wats]

In real dollars post TDL what did NJ pay for the pick? Maybe $400k? MTL retained about $1.7 mil in real salary/bonus for all of next season. I'm not sure if's that comparable. The cap hit is closer to $1.9 mil. It's not a big deal either way. If MTL fans think paying that much to be rid of Allen and add a third round pick is great value, so be it. I see it differently but that's just me. The retention slot is a hypothetical but it's one less chance to retain next season for whatever that hinders MTL. Clearly MTL didn't see the retention slot being that big of a deal. Obviously some fans thought it was a very big deal given the hooting and hollering that went on initially. The reality is a big meh for both teams when you see the whole picture.

I do agree on the meaninglessness of this big picture. But trading your 3rd G for a 3rd round pick is not too bad.

 

[My3Sons]

I do agree on the meaninglessness of this big picture. But trading your 3rd G for a 3rd round pick is not too bad.

I don't think you can divorce it from the money though. We as fans can look at it just as a player for a pick but the teams actually have to live with the finances. I get wanting out from a player, NJ moved Vanacek just to get rid of him he was struggling so badly this season for a goalie struggling just as much since they wanted to be free from Vanacek's cap hit next season.

 

[viceroy]

In real dollars post TDL what did NJ pay for the pick? Maybe $400k? MTL retained about $1.7 mil in real salary/bonus for all of next season. I'm not sure if's that comparable. The cap hit is closer to $1.9 mil.

The problem is you're seeing through the lens of a small market team, the NJD. Whereas for Montreal it all has to do with player development. The 3 goalie rotation was doing a great disservice to 2 young netminders, Montembeault and Primeau. The Habs have plenty of cap space and also plenty of money and ressources. For them laying out 1.9 mill to make sure the young guys get plenty of runway to spread their wings was essential. The 3rd(possibly 2nd) rounder is just gravy.

 

[My3Sons]

The problem is you're seeing through the lens of a small market team, the NJD. Whereas for Montreal it all has to do with player development. The 3 goalie rotation was doing a great disservice to 2 young netminders, Montembeault and Primeau. The Habs have plenty of cap space and also plenty of money and ressources. For them laying out 1.9 mill to make sure the young guys get plenty of runway to spread their wings was essential. The 3rd(possibly 2nd) rounder is just gravy.

There are no small markets anymore with the exception of Arizona. The owners of every other team are worth billions. The NJ owners own an NFL team and at some point they will own a baseball team. Hockey budgets are walking around money for them. It’s not about resources and it’s not for any team unless ownership decides to be cheap because that’s their mindset.

As for Allen all I’m saying is if MTL wanted a third round pick they could have bought one for less than $1.7 mil and then traded Allen without retention for a seventh and come out with less cap hit and an extra pick. It just wasn’t efficient.

 

[mouser]

There are no small markets anymore with the exception of Arizona. The owners of every other team are worth billions. The NJ owners own an NFL team and at some point they will own a baseball team. Hockey budgets are walking around money for them. It’s not about resources and it’s not for any team unless ownership decides to be cheap because that’s their mindset.

As for Allen all I’m saying is if MTL wanted a third round pick they could have bought one for less than $1.7 mil and then traded Allen without retention for a seventh and come out with less cap hit and an extra pick. It just wasn’t efficient.

Montreal is paying $2,056,250 in real cash for that 50% retention on Allen when you include the $406,250 they're picking up this season, plus the $1.65m next season.

If a 3rd party team retained a full 50% on Allen for $2m they'd expect to be compensated with a 2nd round pick. Leading me to think Allen had zero or negative value without salary retention on his $3.85m cap hit.

 

[pth2]

Montreal is paying $2,056,250 in real cash for that 50% retention on Allen when you include the $406,250 they're picking up this season, plus the $1.65m next season.

If a 3rd party team retained a full 50% on Allen for $2m they'd expect to be compensated with a 2nd round pick. Leading me to think Allen had zero or negative value without salary retention on his $3.85m cap hit.

This.
Pretty much all Habs fans just wanted him gone, he isn't worth his salary at this point, and Montreal had 2 younger goalies to develop. This was the most effective way of getting his name off the roster, and half his cap hit off the books.

I remain convinced he was moved very late because Montreal was keeping that retention slot for some other purpose, and when nothing else came through (renting out Savard at 50% for a high value hockey asset, or retaining (as a 3d party) on some big expiring contract), then that retention slot was available and he could be moved.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Montreal is paying $2,056,250 in real cash for that 50% retention on Allen when you include the $406,250 they're picking up this season, plus the $1.65m next season.

If a 3rd party team retained a full 50% on Allen for $2m they'd expect to be compensated with a 2nd round pick. Leading me to think Allen had zero or negative value without salary retention on his $3.85m cap hit.

He was bad this season and held no value due to his cap hit. Fair trade that is definitely not worthy of the amount of attention that is has received in this thread.

 

[ninetyeight]

Doesn't Montreal still have 1 retention slot for next year? I don't think the retention was that big of a deal. The probability of that pick turning into an nhler is low, but I think they did good. NJ did ok. Maybe Allen rejuvenates from the change in scenary and serves as a good backup next season, then it's a good trade. If he doesn't, well it's a pretty low risk move with that salary and won't break NJ even if he sucks.

 

[My3Sons]

Montreal is paying $2,056,250 in real cash for that 50% retention on Allen when you include the $406,250 they're picking up this season, plus the $1.65m next season.

If a 3rd party team retained a full 50% on Allen for $2m they'd expect to be compensated with a 2nd round pick. Leading me to think Allen had zero or negative value without salary retention on his $3.85m cap hit.

Possibly. It’s not a huge deal in the scheme of things. NJ wanted a backup and Montreal wanted to open a roster spot. Montreal pays for half of Allen and gets a third rounder. Not terrible either way.

 

[CDN24]

Montreal is paying $2,056,250 in real cash for that 50% retention on Allen when you include the $406,250 they're picking up this season, plus the $1.65m next season.

If a 3rd party team retained a full 50% on Allen for $2m they'd expect to be compensated with a 2nd round pick. Leading me to think Allen had zero or negative value without salary retention on his $3.85m cap hit.

While I agree that he had no value without retention, I don't think we can compare what a 3rd party would charge for retention to what Montreal got for retention. A third party team would have been paying $2M and a retention slot to buy a 3rd round pick( I suspect it would cost more than a 3rd). The $2M in real cash Montreal is retaining is a sunk cost, they were going to pay it anyway, they are actually saving $2M in real cash.

Habs no longer had a need for Allen and he had minimal value. The most valuable asset they gave up is the retention slot. In exchange for giving it up they gain $2M in real cash, a 3rd round pick and they open up playing time for 2 younger goalies who need it.

New jersey is giving up $2M in cash and a 3rd round pick for a player that has minimal value, why would they do that? The value for them is they can send their young goalies down for more seasoning and most importantly they keep them waiver exempt. Had they finished out the season with Dawes and Schmid, one or both would have needed waivers by 2024-25. Dawes is 15 games played from losing waiver exemption and Schmid is 8 games away.

 

[TBF1972]

The problem is you're seeing through the lens of a small market team, the NJD. Whereas for Montreal it all has to do with player development. The 3 goalie rotation was doing a great disservice to 2 young netminders, Montembeault and Primeau. The Habs have plenty of cap space and also plenty of money and ressources. For them laying out 1.9 mill to make sure the young guys get plenty of runway to spread their wings was essential. The 3rd(possibly 2nd) rounder is just gravy.

but montreal will only have one retention slot at next years deadline, if they decide to keep selling at next deadline. this impacts their ability to improve the return, when moving out veterans, regardless of the depth of their owner's pocket.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Just a nicer way to say he didn't want to play in NJ..

 

[TrufleShufle]

Just a nicer way to say he didn't want to play in NJ..

Would be a better dunk if he didn't end up waiving to come here. Quality over quantity, friend. Try it.

 

[CDN24]

but montreal will only have one retention slot at next years deadline, if they decide to keep selling at next deadline. this impacts their ability to improve the return, when moving out veterans, regardless of the depth of their owner's pocket.

It would be nice to have an extra slot but that went out the window when he reacquired Petry to facilitate the Karlsson deal. In that series of deals used a retention slot for he retained $2.3M X 2 on Petry, assumed 1 year of Pearson at 3.2M in exchange for a 2nd. 3rd and 4th and Dumping Pitlick (1.1M) and Hoffman (4.5M). still a slot well used IMO. The 2nd one solved his excess goalie issue and returned a 3rd.

Next year he has 3 expiring contracts of vets
Savard 3.5M
Armia 3.4M
Dvorak 4.5M

You use the retention slot to get you the best possible return, one or more of them may be moved in offseason moves anyway.

 

[Moose Head]

It would be nice to have an extra slot but that went out the window when he reacquired Petry to facilitate the Karlsson deal. In that series of deals used a retention slot for he retained $2.3M X 2 on Petry, assumed 1 year of Pearson at 3.2M in exchange for a 2nd. 3rd and 4th and Dumping Pitlick (1.1M) and Hoffman (4.5M). still a slot well used IMO. The 2nd one solved his excess goalie issue and returned a 3rd.

Next year he has 3 expiring contracts of vets
Savard 3.5M
Armia 3.4M
Dvorak 4.5M

You use the retention slot to get you the best possible return, one or more of them may be moved in offseason moves anyway.

Armia has a favourable buyout, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they buy him out this summer.

Until we know for sure Dach is 100% they’ll probably keep Dvorak although he has a favourable buyout as well.

They’ll try to pull a Chariot on some unsuspecting GM next deadline and that’s the most likely use of the retention spot.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Armia has a favourable buyout, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they buy him out this summer.

Until we know for sure Dach is 100% they’ll probably keep Dvorak although he has a favourable buyout as well.

They’ll try to pull a Chariot on some unsuspecting GM next deadline and that’s the most likely use of the retention spot

Dvorak is going to finish the season on IR. I'm not sure that he can be bought out if that's the case. Does anyone know if he sufficiently recovers by the middle of June if he can be removed or does he only come off the IR at his next physical at training camp?

 

[Moose Head]

Dvorak is going to finish the season on IR. I'm not sure that he can be bought out if that's the case. Does anyone know if he sufficiently recovers by the middle of June if he can be removed or does he only come off the IR at his next physical at training camp?

Good point. Either way, even if overpaid, they need to keep him until they know Dach’s status for sure.

 

[Xirik]

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Shaky Jakey lets in 2 of the first 3 shots, then goes berserk and gives up absolutely nothing after! Nice debut for Allen

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Just give him 40 games to prove himself next season!! Jake deserves 40!