NHL's return to Winnipeg certain says analyst

[jamiebez]

The Flames actually outdrew the Jets while they were in Atlanta(take a look at the historical stats, they even outdrew the Nordiques a couple of years), and that is back in the 70's before all the Northerners moved down here.

Hockey is doing fine in Atlanta, and I recommend you find better things to do with your time than hope for an NHL team to return to Winnipeg. It will not happen, due to the size of the market.

Ummm....

Atlanta:
72/73 12516
73/74 14162
75/75 13444
75/76 11963
76/77 12259
77/78 10501
78/79 11441
79/80 10024
Avg: 12038

Winnipeg:
79/80 13284
80/81 13265
81/82 13382
82/83 12889
83/84 12400
84/85 12994
85/86 13620
86/87 13594
Avg: 13179

From http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html

And I'm not knocking Atlanta - I'm pointing to it as a positive example of a city that lost their team and got it back. An "if you can do it, so can we" kind of thing.

 

[Bad Santa]

When discussing whether Winnipeg will ever get a major sports anything, one fact the Winnipeg boosters keep trying to distract attention from is this...

"...Winnipeg lies in an unprotected arctic trough which channels cold arctic air south, directly across the Canadian Shield and Canadian Prairie. This results in bone-chilling temperatures as early as the end of October and bitter cold and winds during December, January and February, and cold weather and snow often extending into April. The extremity of its climate in the winter months has caused the (somewhat derisive) nickname of "Winterpeg". Summers are typically warm with average temperatures above 25 °C (77 °F) and much sunshine is received throughout the year. Spring and fall tend to be rather contracted seasons, each averaging little over six weeks. Average maximum temperatures for each month are as follows (source Environment Canada): January −13 °C (9 °F), February −9 °C (16 °F), March −1 °C (30 °F), April 10 °C (50 °F), May 19 °C (67 °F), June 23 °C (74 °F), July 26 °C (79 °F), August 25 °C (77 °F), September 19 °C (67 °F), October 11 °C (52 °F), November 0 °C (32 °F), December −10 °C (14 °F). The city receives an annual average of about 510 mm (20 inches) of precipitation including 115 cm (45 inches) of snow. There is generally snow cover from mid-November to the end of March, though this varies depending on the year—heavy snowfalls in late October and in April are not uncommon. Winnipeg is virtually assured of having a White Christmas as there is only one December 25 on record in the last century where there was no snow on the ground...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg,_Manitoba

Average Maximum Temperature

Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
-12.9 -10.0 -2.2 9.3 18.0 22.8 26.1 25.0 18.5 11.5 -0.5 -9.3 (°C)
8.8 14.0 28.0 48.7 64.4 73.0 79.0 77.0 65.3 52.7 31.1 15.3 (°F)

Average Minimum Temperature

Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
°C -22.9 -20.6 -12.5 -2.1 4.5 10.3 13.5 12.0 6.4 0.6 -8.8 -18.3
°F -9.1 -5.0 9.5 28.2 40.1 50.5 56.3 53.6 43.5 33.1 16.2 -0.8

Source: WINNIPEG INT'L A,MA data derived from GHCN 2 Beta. 628 months between 1938 and 1990

http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/grid.pl?gr=N49W097

And for comparison's sake... here some climate data for Novosibirsk, Siberia...

Average High Temperature Years on Record: 18
Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
°F 9 11 25 43 60 71 75 69 59 41 23 13

Average Low Temperature Years on Record: 18
Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Oct. Nov. Dec.
°F -2 -2 11 28 41 54 58 53 43 30 13 2

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?s=043692

That's right. Winnipeg is colder than Novosibirsk, Siberia. Might make for good ice conditions, but it makes for a crud free agent situation. A Winnipeg franchise simply could never compete for players now. Their draft choices wouldn't sign. No player talent. No franchise.

 

[Saint Teemu]

... Winnipeg weather stats...

It's a good thing that you had all of that corroborating evidence, otherwise no one would have ever believed you that Winnipeg is cold in winter.

 

[Hawker14]

it's cold in winnipeg in the winter ? i always thought so, but it's nice to see the facts to prove it.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Now if Houston were a rumored party for a team most of the fans saying Winnipeg shouldn't have a team would be saying "Oh ya we need a team in Houston."

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

The Bruins' TV crew tonight, in a game at Carolina, briefly discussed Winnipeg. Color man Andy Brickley praised the fans there and the ice surface when he played after ice-level commentator Rob Simpson initially mentioned Winnipeg and the 'Canes fans hope that their team wouldn't be targeted for a move.

 

[Squiddy*]

Now if Houston were a rumored party for a team most of the fans saying Winnipeg shouldn't have a team would be saying "Oh ya we need a team in Houston."

Whats wrong with houston? It was a successful in the WHA just like the ....... JETS!

 

[misterjaggers]

When discussing whether Winnipeg will ever get a major sports anything, one fact the Winnipeg boosters keep trying to distract attention from is this...Winnipeg is colder than Novosibirsk, Siberia. Might make for good ice conditions, but it makes for a crud free agent situation. A Winnipeg franchise simply could never compete for players now. Their draft choices wouldn't sign. No player talent. No franchise.

Yeah, who the bleep wants to live there?

 

[misterjaggers]

Whats wrong with houston? It was a successful in the WHA...

Houston will get a team in the near future and develop a nice following just like the Stars did.

 

[polarslam]

it's cold in winnipeg in the winter ? i always thought so, but it's nice to see the facts to prove it.

I think we Winnipegers need to reevulate how we are approaching this relocation issue. I thnk instead of trying to bring a team here that it makes more sense due to the harsh and unforgiving climate we struggle to surive in every year that we relocate our populatoin to somewhere warm. How many more children will we allow to instatnly freeze to death when they leave their igloo's in January? Not to mention the hundreads of death our citizens deal with in the summer when a giant mosiquito flies in from above and impales someone on their 10 foot stinger.

 

[Le Golie]

When discussing whether Winnipeg will ever get a major sports anything, one fact the Winnipeg boosters keep trying to distract attention from is this...

You would have to search these message boards long and hard to find something this stupid. Winnipeg had an NHL team in the past. They had stars like Bobby Hull, Dale Hawerchuk, Teemu Selanne, Kieth Tkachuk, Alexei Zhamnov, Nik Khabibulin, etc. The team didn't leave Winnipeg because of the weather, they left because of the economic situation of the NHL in the 90's. The weather in Winnipeg is very comparable to other Canadian cities (except Vancouver) and even Minneapolis, which is only a few hours away.

I can't believe I even bothered to respond to this idiocy. My bad.

 

[Timmy]

I think we Winnipegers need to reevulate how we are approaching this relocation issue. I thnk instead of trying to bring a team here that it makes more sense due to the harsh and unforgiving climate we struggle to surive in every year that we relocate our populatoin to somewhere warm. How many more children will we allow to instatnly freeze to death when they leave their igloo's in January? Not to mention the hundreads of death our citizens deal with in the summer when a giant mosiquito flies in from above and impales someone on their 10 foot stinger.

I think all the people of Winnipeg should demand better houses be built for them, or they are outta there...

 

[polarslam]

You would have to search these message boards long and hard to find something this stupid. Winnipeg had an NHL team in the past. They had stars like Bobby Hull, Dale Hawerchuk, Teemu Selanne, Kieth Tkachuk, Alexei Zhamnov, Nik Khabibulin, etc. The team didn't leave Winnipeg because of the weather, they left because of the economic situation of the NHL in the 90's. The weather in Winnipeg is very comparable to other Canadian cities (except Vancouver) and even Minneapolis, which is only a few hours away.

I can't believe I even bothered to respond to this idiocy. My bad.

Not to mention that I don't think there are to many NHL'ers that come from a tropical climate. I think pretty much every hockey player is used to 5 AM practices with blowing snow, wind chill factors and that sort of thing.

 

[Squiddy*]

If the NHL puts a team in Winnipeg than why not North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Nebraska? Lets just make it all one big bush league!

 

[Roughneck]

I think all the people of Winnipeg should demand better houses be built for them, or they are outta there...

If the houses are just going to float away whats the point?

 

[J.T]

Your DAMN right Winnipeg is cold! We wouldn't want it any other way!! Nothing like a freezing cold Saturday night and watching a Jets vs Oilers game! (Now that's Hockey my friends) ...... The Hell with another southern U.S team

 

[LadyJet26]

Wow big deal... it's cold in Winnipeg during the winter... nothing new there... Yeah uhm it's freezing in Minnesota half the year just like it is in Winnipeg. I'm sure weather has everything to do with getting an NHL franchise again

 

[LadyJet26]

The Flames actually outdrew the Jets while they were in Atlanta(take a look at the historical stats, they even outdrew the Nordiques a couple of years), and that is back in the 70's before all the Northerners moved down here.

Hockey is doing fine in Atlanta, and I recommend you find better things to do with your time than hope for an NHL team to return to Winnipeg. It will not happen, due to the size of the market.

There is nothing wrong with the size of the market buddy. And it has very little to do with the game of hockey and who will go. As long as people go to games, it doesn't matter the size of the market. Hell, Winnipeg could be the size of Victoria, but if they drew sellout crowds every night, it'd work.

 

[Resolute]

And that is exactly the problem.

Winnipeg needs 100% capacity, win or lose, PLUS massive revenue sharing just to exist.

Over the long term, Winnipeg will not sellout every game when the team is losing.

 

[LadyJet26]

for the first year it will, almost guarenteed.

At least this time the owners would get revenue from concerts, etc because Winnipeg Enterprises doesn't own the MTS Centre.

 

[jamiebez]

Winnipeg needs 100% capacity, win or lose, PLUS massive revenue sharing just to exist.

Not really....

Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa have all demonstrated last season that they can sustain $35-40M payrolls and break even (at least), without a dime of revenue sharing. Granted, revenues will likely be down this year for those teams, but it's far from unreasonable to suggest that Winnipeg can't sustain a $30M payroll before we even need to talk about revenue sharing.

I agree with you that the building needs to be at 100% capacity every night, but that should be the least of anyone's concern. This team drew well over 13k in 1981/82 when they only won 9 games!

The only legitimate roadblocks I see are the availability of franchises, and the competition from other potential relocation sites.

PS: I am stunned this thread is still going on... Hockey's back - don't we all have better things to talk about

 

[Squiddy*]

And that is exactly the problem.

Winnipeg needs 100% capacity, win or lose, PLUS massive revenue sharing just to exist.

Over the long term, Winnipeg will not sellout every game when the team is losing.

You're right. I see plenty of Winnipeg fans who act like It's some sort of hockey hotbed and then there are americans who actually believe that probably because they never followed the jets, but on many nights there would be like 11,000 - 12,000 people at the arena which only held about 15,000 or so. I remember going into the winnipeg arena and seeing rows of seats empty.

 

[projexns]

Not really....

Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa have all demonstrated last season that they can sustain $35-40M payrolls and break even (at least), without a dime of revenue sharing. Granted, revenues will likely be down this year for those teams, but it's far from unreasonable to suggest that Winnipeg can't sustain a $30M payroll before we even need to talk about revenue sharing.

I agree with you that the building needs to be at 100% capacity every night, but that should be the least of anyone's concern. This team drew well over 13k in 1981/82 when they only won 9 games!

The only legitimate roadblocks I see are the availability of franchises, and the competition from other potential relocation sites.

PS: I am stunned this thread is still going on... Hockey's back - don't we all have better things to talk about

It's a shame that Canadian teams have to share revenues with the American teams.

Imagine if eight Canadian cities (including Winnipeg and Quebec City) could keep all of the Canadian television revenue to themselves. The CBC pays what, $60 million per year in rights fees? The going rate for mid-week Leaf games on Sportsnet/TSN was about $400,000 per game, and I think the Habs and Canucks were fetching around $250,000 per game. Two games a week for 25 weeks at an average of $300,000 per game would be another $15 million in revenue.

It's getting pretty close to $10 million per year for each of the eight Canadian-based teams. But we have to give that up in exchange for a 1/30th slice of U.S.
television revenues.

Then there's licensing and merchandising. Imagine how much money each Canadian team could keep for every jersey, flag, and toddler's pyjamas that is sold with the local team's emblem on them. But again, the Calgary's, Edmonton's, Ottawa's etc. sacrifice that chunk of revenue in exchange for a 1/30th share of Nashville's and Washington's and Carolina's merchandising revenue.

What a shame.

 

[Squiddy*]

It's a shame that Canadian teams have to share revenues with the American teams.

Imagine if eight Canadian cities (including Winnipeg and Quebec City) could keep all of the Canadian television revenue to themselves. The CBC pays what, $60 million per year in rights fees? The going rate for mid-week Leaf games on Sportsnet/TSN was about $400,000 per game, and I think the Habs and Canucks were fetching around $250,000 per game. Two games a week for 25 weeks at an average of $300,000 per game would be another $15 million in revenue.

It's getting pretty close to $10 million per year for each of the eight Canadian-based teams. But we have to give that up in exchange for a 1/30th slice of U.S.
television revenues.

Then there's licensing and merchandising. Imagine how much money each Canadian team could keep for every jersey, flag, and toddler's pyjamas that is sold with the local team's emblem on them. But again, the Calgary's, Edmonton's, Ottawa's etc. sacrifice that chunk of revenue in exchange for a 1/30th share of Nashville's and Washington's and Carolina's merchandising revenue.

What a shame.

Horrible post...

 

[triggrman]

Horrible post...

It's his right, I feel the same way about NAFTA.