NHL's return to Winnipeg certain says analyst

[Gnashville]

1. Winnipeg Arena was a 50-year old arena with obstructed view seats, limited access for the handicapped and elderly and almost no suites.

2. NHL average attendance for this period was around 14,000-14,500

3. The Colorado Rockies, Atlanta Flames and Minnesota North Stars all had much worse attendance than this, and all got teams back.

Attendance is only one small part of the story, folks. REVENUE is what will cause teams to succeed or fail.

1. Why Does Carolina not get the same pass for playing in the Greensboro Arena?

2. Canadian Fans aren't "Average" according to most.

3. 2 of those cities built Arenas and applied for expansion. Colorado was moved there.

I agree with the last statement. If a team can make money in it's current location, why move them?

 

[Gnashville]

One only has to look at the attendance charts to see why most people are skeptical of many southern teams. Rumors of papering the buildings have followed several for quite some time - including Nashville, who was reported to have had a couple sponsors buy out remaining tickets to a couple of their late season home games to claim sellouts.

At times the Canadian Media is exaggerating the situtaion in cities it finds unacceptable. Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, and others have all suffered from poor attendance in the past (two of them currently do) why aren't there more stories about that. I have been to several games in Nashville and have never seen "Papering". If it's going on I wish I could get in on it , it would save me some cash. Yes late in the season a sponsor did purchase appx. 500 tickets for a weekday game to make it a sellout, it was a promotional thing with Gnash to get the local media to pay more attention to the Preds. It happened 1 freaking time. The rest of the year and into the playoff the Preds had real Sellouts

 

[Hawker14]

some attendance figures from tonight:

Nashville - 12,058
Atlanta - 12,913
Florida - 11,716

 

[Hawker14]

http://www.mtscentre.ca/press_releases/content.php?press_id=87

in regards to the mts centre's ability to generate non-hockey related revenues, there's an article from the mts centre website regarding it's pollstar ranking.

highlights of the article:

-the mts centre is 20th in the world in terms of arena venue ticket sales for non-sports touring events.

"The MTS Centre remains ranked fourth in Canada, still ahead of such venues as GM Place in Vancouver (28th), Rexall Place in Edmonton (32nd), and the Corel Centre in Ottawa (41st)."

"The MTS Centre is now ranked 15th in North America, up from 17th ahead of arenas such as the United Center in Chicago, IL (33rd), American Airlines Center in Dallas (35th), the Pepsi Center in Denver, CO (42nd), and the Staples Center in Los Angeles (53rd)."

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

some attendance figures from tonight:

Nashville - 12,058
Atlanta - 12,913
Florida - 11,716

If you want to play the small data sample size game, Atlanta and Florida are 14th and 15th, with Nashville just a hair behind Edmonton.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

 

[Hawker14]

If you want to play the small data sample size game, Atlanta and Florida are 14th and 15th, with Nashville just a hair behind Edmonton.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

huh, small sample data size ? your link has info for 2 nashville home games, is this large sample data size ?

anyway, all three teams will drop in the attendance rankings after tonight's games.

tonight's attendance figures that i posted aren't too funny, so i'm not sure why you're laughing so hard.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

huh, small sample data size ? your link has info for 2 nashville home games, is this large sample data size ?

Exactly my point. I was showing how small data sample sizes prove absolutely nothing...

 

[Hawker14]

Exactly my point. I was showing how small data sample sizes prove absolutely nothing...

and i still fail to see your point. 12,000 fans for the best team in the league in only their third home game is not a good sign for the nhl.

it will be an interesting season for many franchises.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

and i still fail to see your point. 12,000 fans for the best team in the league in only their third home game is not a good sign for the nhl.

it will be an interesting season for many franchises.

The point is, why should anybody care about your small sample sizes, considering you dont care about other's small sample sizes (nor should you)? Why are only small sample sizes that "prove" your point valid?

 

[Resolute]

1. Why Does Carolina not get the same pass for playing in the Greensboro Arena?

2. Canadian Fans aren't "Average" according to most.

3. 2 of those cities built Arenas and applied for expansion. Colorado was moved there.

I agree with the last statement. If a team can make money in it's current location, why move them?

1. Who isnt giving Raleigh a pass for playing in Greensboro? The attendance in Raleigh speaks for itself. Though I gotta say I am surprised that they are putting in nearly 15k so far this year. Good news for Raleigh, bad news for Winnipeg.

2. ? Not sure what that means.

3. Not relevent to jamiebez's point. Who cares how they got a second chance, his argument is that they *did* get a second chance.

 

[Resolute]

At times the Canadian Media is exaggerating the situtaion in cities it finds unacceptable. Vancouver, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, and others have all suffered from poor attendance in the past (two of them currently do) why aren't there more stories about that. I have been to several games in Nashville and have never seen "Papering". If it's going on I wish I could get in on it , it would save me some cash. Yes late in the season a sponsor did purchase appx. 500 tickets for a weekday game to make it a sellout, it was a promotional thing with Gnash to get the local media to pay more attention to the Preds. It happened 1 freaking time. The rest of the year and into the playoff the Preds had real Sellouts

Fair enough, and thank you for confirming that report was accurate. Of course, the point that was being made at the time I heard that report was that Nashville couldn't sell out for a team on the verge of making the playoffs. For this one game, at least, seems it was accurate.

Your conspiracy theory to start your reply doesnt really change the underlying fact that outside of Dallas and Tampa Bay, none of the southern teams have been consistant draws in the NHL. People see teams like Carolina, Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix constantly near the bottom of the attendance lists, and it makes them skeptical.

And while last nights attendance figures - especially Nashville's figure - certantly do not represent a significant sample size, we were all told how Nashville's ticket sales were pretty good going into the season. Yet, a 6-0 team could only manage 12k for the third game of the year? That is going to make people wonder.

 

[Resolute]

If you want to play the small data sample size game, Atlanta and Florida are 14th and 15th, with Nashville just a hair behind Edmonton.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

Not anymore.

Incidentally, the only reason why Edmonton is the only Canadian team outside of the top ten in attendance is because they can only seat 16,839. Saing Nashville was "just a hair behind Edmonton" does not take into account that Edmonton is playing to 100% capacity, while Nashville was not.

 

[Gnashville]

Your conspiracy theory to start your reply doesnt really change the underlying fact that outside of Dallas and Tampa Bay, none of the southern teams have been consistant draws in the NHL.

Amazing what winning the Stanley Cup can do.
The reports about the Gnash in the arena tower thing was exaggerated. It was reported as an act of desperation in Canada but that is an old trick used here in Nashville. long story

 

[jamiebez]

1. Who isnt giving Raleigh a pass for playing in Greensboro? The attendance in Raleigh speaks for itself. Though I gotta say I am surprised that they are putting in nearly 15k so far this year. Good news for Raleigh, bad news for Winnipeg.

2. ? Not sure what that means.

3. Not relevent to jamiebez's point. Who cares how they got a second chance, his argument is that they *did* get a second chance.

1. Aren't the Canes one of the teams who did either half price or 2-for-1 season tickets this year? I believe Phoenix did so as well. Besides, Carolina's average attendance is a little deceptive, since they've only played two home games.
Their total attendance:
- Fri, Oct 7 vs. Pitts: 18,787
- Wed, Oct 12 vs. Washington: 10,968

To remake my own point: this doesn't mean a heck of a lot by itself, but add that to the fact that they are at or near the bottom of the overall revenue pile and, well, draw your own conclusions...

2. I believe the jist were was that, by our own logic, Canadian fans are so great that we should be held to a higher standard. That's how I took it, but I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth.

3. Indeed

 

[WINNIPEGJETS]

I thought hockey was more solid in Atlanta... Here are their ticket promos that I got from the team site

Atlanta



FREE Tickets for kids age 15 and under
With the purchase of a ticket in the $35 or $25 price categories. This offer is good for all October home games, while supplies last, including the home opener on Saturday, October 8 vs. the Washington Capitals.

Chick-fil-A® 2-for-1 Wednesdays
Enables fans to purchase two tickets for the price of one when you buy a $52 or $35 ticket to any Wednesday Thrashers home game, while supplies last. Also includes coupon for 2-for-1 Chick-fil-A sandwiches.

Coca-Cola Family Pack Games
Includes four tickets, four Cokes and four hot dogs, starting at $69 for eight specially-selected home games, while supplies last. Selected games include: Nov. 11 vs. Tampa Bay; Nov. 24 vs. the New York Rangers; Dec. 11 vs. Chicago; Dec. 26 vs. Montreal; Jan. 21 vs. Tampa Bay; Feb. 4 vs. Florida; March 4 vs. Washington; and April 1 vs. Carolina.

College Discount/Military Day
Available for every home game with valid college or Military ID. Get an upper level $35 ticket for $15 or a lower level $52 ticket for $37. Day of game only, unless purchased as a group. Limit of two (2) tickets per ID. Available at Philips Arena Box office day of game or in advance for groups of 20 or more through the Atlanta Thrashers Group Sales Department at 866-715-1500 ext 4. Tickets subject to availability.

 

[Hawker14]

i can't argue with the first or third promotion, since i believe teams should try to make it more affordable for children to attend, but the second promotion is a head scratcher.

 

[snakepliskin]

1. Aren't the Canes one of the teams who did either half price or 2-for-1 season tickets this year? I believe Phoenix did so as well. Besides, Carolina's average attendance is a little deceptive, since they've only played two home games.
Their total attendance:
- Fri, Oct 7 vs. Pitts: 18,787
- Wed, Oct 12 vs. Washington: 10,968

To remake my own point: this doesn't mean a heck of a lot by itself, but add that to the fact that they are at or near the bottom of the overall revenue pile and, well, draw your own conclusions...

2. I believe the jist were was that, by our own logic, Canadian fans are so great that we should be held to a higher standard. That's how I took it, but I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth.
sorry to bust your bubble but the canes have NOT had any of the deep ticket discounts you posted. they pretty much held season and gate ticket prices at the same level as pre-lockout-the reason for the poor attendance the last couple of years is that we pretty much iced an AHL calibre team--right now there is a pretty good buzz in the community as this team seemingly has stepped up to the plate--also our 2nd home date that drew 11k was against the worst team in the league on a WEDNESDAY nite which in the south is still church nite--the good news for us is that we seem to have turned the corner in our rebuilding with some exciting young players-staal-cole-vasicek-and cam ward among others- to break it down-we have survived the complete overhaul of our team in a non-traditional hockey market and are still here with a better cba in hand and a hockey team that is raising some eyebrows.
i feel that the window of opportunity for another market to lure this team away from the triangle has slammed shut!

 

[Hawker14]

carolina is indeed assembling a very nice young core.

staal is the real deal imo.

however, no matter how it's cut, 11,000 fans is not going to make the new cba work in any market. hopefully fans in markets with low attendance numbers will pony up the dough for tickets to avoid any risk whatsoever of having to go through what winnipeggers, and those in quebec city and hartford had to.

losing your team sucks when you love hockey.

 

[What the Faulk]

Snake said everything I wanted to say. This city is never going to draw well in the middle of the week against the worst team in the league. 11k is poor, but the overall attendance will go up as the season wears on.

People seem to forget that from the time the RBC Center opened (99-00?) through 2002-2003, the attendance was steadily going up, peaking at about 16k before the dreaded rebuilding that was mentioned had arrived.

If they continue to play as they are, then attendance will rise again. The best thing this team did was to get rid of Mo's boring style of play and give fans a reason to come back.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

carolina is indeed assembling a very nice young core.

staal is the real deal imo.

however, no matter how it's cut, 11,000 fans is not going to make the new cba work in any market. hopefully fans in markets with low attendance numbers will pony up the dough for tickets to avoid any risk whatsoever of having to go through what winnipeggers, and those in quebec city and hartford had to.

losing your team sucks when you love hockey.

Then explain, hawker14, why are Winnipeg and Hartford now solid AHL CITIES and Quebec a solid Junior city w/ the Remparts.

 

[Hawker14]

in your opinion.

 

[jol]

some attendance figures from tonight:

Nashville - 12,058
Atlanta - 12,913
Florida - 11,716

Florida might have an excuse, hurricane Wilma, people have more important things to do than go to game. I didn't notice what was attendance for Dolphins yesterday (game was rescheduled from Sunday).

JOL

 

[What the Faulk]

Florida might have an excuse, hurricane Wilma, people have more important things to do than go to game. I didn't notice what was attendance for Dolphins yesterday (game was rescheduled from Sunday).

JOL

It was a sellout (86k? Thereabouts), but only about 40k showed up.

 

[Hawker14]

figures from saturday night:

Carolina vs. Washington
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Attendance 13,374 at MCI Center
Start 7:08 PM ET; End 9:38 PM ET
Final

New Jersey vs. Atlanta
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Attendance 16,510 at Philips Arena
Start 7:10 PM ET; End 9:32 PM ET
Final

NY Rangers vs. Buffalo
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Attendance 16,346 at HSBC Arena
Start 7:38 PM ET; End 9:52 PM ET
Final

Minnesota vs. St. Louis
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Attendance 13,903 at Savvis Center
Start 7:08 PM CT; End 9:26 PM CT
Final

San Jose vs. Nashville
Saturday, October 22, 2005
Attendance 12,668 at Gaylord Entertainment Center
Start 7:06 PM CT; End 9:19 PM CT
Final

good job atlanta and buffalo !!!

washington and st.louis continue to have troubling attendance though.

what's wrong with nashville ? 7-0 record, yet second straight home game under 13,000.

 

[btn]

3. The Colorado Rockies, Atlanta Flames and Minnesota North Stars all had much worse attendance than this, and all got teams back.

The Flames actually outdrew the Jets while they were in Atlanta(take a look at the historical stats, they even outdrew the Nordiques a couple of years), and that is back in the 70's before all the Northerners moved down here.

Hockey is doing fine in Atlanta, and I recommend you find better things to do with your time than hope for an NHL team to return to Winnipeg. It will not happen, due to the size of the market.