NHLPA/Saskin Email Controversy (Saskin fired)

[RandV]

Regardless of how the CBA has worked out favourably for the players, the fact that Saskin and Linden used possibly illegal tactics and at the very least underhanded behaviour to get Saskin installed as the leader of the NHLPA is what is being questioned here.

That's the thing that makes it difficult for myself to form an opinion, as much as I'm glad Linden and Saskin took charge and got the league back on track, I'm also having more respect for Chelios and crew, seeing them as more than a couple of grumpy old farts complaining after not getting their way.

Either way, Trevor is a good guy, if anything was done wrong it would've been Saskin taking advantage of Linden. As the fans ended up winning from the whole fiasco, let's just hope that Saskin, if guilty, gets quietly put away, and someone new brought in who won't shake the boat. Last thing we need is to get another Goodenow who'll restart the PA/Owners war.

 

[Fugu]

I think he's saying that some people (not him, others) allege that Saskin was the NHL's mole and helped keep the league informed on what the union's position and sentiment were.

However, the "Saskin putting the knife in Goodenow's back" statement (whether it was here or in another thread) is interesting. I'm not sure I completely buy into it, but it's certainly interesting.

Thanks, IB. Actually the two comments in either paragraph should be treated separately. Like I just explained to GC, there are allegations about player agent involvement who had (or undertook) direct communications with the NHL. At this stage, they are merely accusations so we'll have to await the results of the NHLPA internal inquiry. Others have implied that they viewed the Saskin and NHL relationship as being a bit too cozy. That of course is a matter of personal opinion, so everyone's mileage will vary.

As for the Ides of March comment (only 3 days away), Goodenow was quickly supplanted by Saskin - hired as his right hand man - when Linden and Saskin became directly involved with negotiations. I think all parties will admit now that Saskin and Daly hammered out the details of what became the final CBA. The question has been on whose authority and direction. I can't and won't say that Saskin did anything unethical, however his hiring [handled by Linden alone] yielded a lucrative* 5-yr contract at over $2 MM per year, guaranteed bonuses of 5-15% and a golden parachute; and the Side Letters of the CBA are under internal investigation. One of the allegations being publicized is that the full details of the letters were not disclosed to the players before they voted on the CBA. [In fact, as all of you know, the NLRB issued its own statement about the Side Letters.]

* Comparison is often made to the head of the MLB union.

So before the pro-NHL pile on starts, do consider that this is what is being reported and investigated internally now. Shooting the messenger isn't going to change it or make it go away.

 

[Fugu]

What's going to make this whole thing interesting, is that at the time, the presence of back-door communications was seen as a good thing. People were looking to guys like Gretzky and Lemieux to have a large influence on the negotiations, because of their dual perspective. If the disgruntled players are going after agents who may have been involved in some communications, I think it will only be a matter of time before people start questioning the roles of players like Gretzky, who did work at getting both sides ot the table at one point.

I'm not even saying that Gretzky did anything wrong in that exchange, but, if people are being called out for not following the proper channels, it's not far fetched that they'd reference something like this as a comparison.

With the stakes as high as they are (i.e. agents who's entire business could be threatened), people are going to go into very aggressive stances.

Whoever the NHLPA does bring in as their next leader is going to have a huge mess on their hands to clean up.

Well perhaps one of our legal friends here can enlighten us about agents and their ethical or even legal obligations. An agent is supposed to represent the interests of their client. I think many of these guys are attorneys (certainly not all) as well. Of course they have their own interests to protect but I think the contractual agreements they have with their clients spell these types of matters out. Lemieux and Gretzky as owners and/or players/coaches have a different relationship with the players. They aren't certified as agents by the NHLPA either. If agents are conveying a message to the NHL, where did that message come from? A small group of players circumventing their own union? Agents acting on their own volition (doubtful)? It does raise some questions-- and apparently has.

 

[GSC2k2*]

No one ever comes back from a "paid leave of absence" in any business or profession. At that point, it is clear that your employer has lost all confidence in you. All that is left to do now is determine the cleanest, easiest way to part company with Saskin, which will almost certainly be to just suck it up and pay him his severance.

Saskin will feel, not without reason, that he was a victim of a witch hunt here by the Chelios gang. The Goodenow loyalists clearly wanted someone's head on a stick as payback for the way the lockout ended, and weren't going to quit until they got it. Well, now they have their pound of flesh, courtesy of Saskin's own stupidity (note to file for the next NHLPA Executive Director -- privacy is a serious issue). Everyone loves a good conspiracy, but no one likes the conspirator, and to the extent that Saskin was viewed as the guy who threw Goodenow under the bus (again, with good reason) you could argue that this garbage was going to continue until they hounded Saskin from office.

This is an opportunity for the 'PA to find an Executive Director on whom they can all agree, and move forward. I highly doubt that the next guy is going to be a hardliner who will agitate for another big fight with management, not while so many players are still bearing the scars from that lost season. The genie is now out of the bottle in terms of linkage and a cap, and it's hard to imagine any appetite amongst players for losing yet another season to discover that the owners still mean business.

Saskin now has to walk the plank in the name of unity and a fresh start, but let's be clear -- Ted Saskin and Trevor Linden did the right thing for their union, and for the game of hockey, in suing for peace during the Spring of '05. The majority of players would no doubt still agree with that if asked privately.

Pretty well stated.

As for the next ED of the NHLPA, i would suspect that he might do well to heed the lessons of the lockout. That is, a union should carry out the wishes of its membership, rather than dictate the positions. If your membership does not seem to care, you must make it your mission to make them care through every ounce of persuasion and leadership you can muster. Then, once they care, begin the education process bit by bit. Start with easy things that they can sink their teeth into. Then, at that point, they will be able to make informed decisions.

That is exactly how Marvin Miller did it. He outlined it in his autobiography. Even as a guy who thinks unions have no place in pro sports, I have to admire the steadfastness with which he went about the process.

It will be a long time before this union is ready to do battle again. The necessary unity is not there at all. If your membership is not unified, only a complete idiot would lead a union into a war. Perhaps some day, but that time is far off. If the union decided to take a hardline stance in two years - a stance that is meaningless unless it is backed up by the genuine threat of a strike, the odds are extremely high that its membership solidarity would be so tenuous that it might blow apart completely.

 

[Fugu]

the current cba is pretty favourable to the players. i can't see why they would re open negotiations and risk losing all the momentum the nhl has supposedly gained

This almost seems moot at this point. I believe - for the players - the issue has become one of trust and that they don't believe the head of their union is trustworthy or acting in the best interest of the players.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Well perhaps one of our legal friends here can enlighten us about agents and their ethical or even legal obligations.

1. I'm an actuary, not a lawyer, damnit!
2. Most agents are lawyers. Insert your favorte "lawyers and ethics" remark here.

 

[RandV]

2. Most agents are lawyers. Insert your favorte "lawyers and ethics" remark here.

Of course, where ever there's the potential to bleed money from people...

 

[RangerBoy]

Regardless of how the CBA has worked out favourably for the players, the fact that Saskin and Linden used possibly illegal tactics and at the very least underhanded behaviour to get Saskin installed as the leader of the NHLPA is what is being questioned here.

That is the old issue.The dissenters wanted a search committee set up and questioned the size of Saskin's salary.That is a separate issue.Illegal?No.Unethical?Probably but not illegal.They tried going through the Labor Relations board and the courts here in the States but they couldn't get anything accomplished

The new issue concerns the reading of the emails.This new issue is a convenient excuse to dump Saskin.Only problem is the PA was reading emails when Bob Goodenow.All of rank and file members of the NHLPA are issued lap tops.They have to register their passwords with the PA.This has been going on before Saskin was the executive director

 

[Fugu]

1. I'm an actuary, not a lawyer, damnit!
2. Most agents are lawyers. Insert your favorte "lawyers and ethics" remark here.

Fair enough, although I knew you weren't "one of them". I promised GC I would be nice and stay away from the lawyer jokes. He's already grumpy enough without that coming up. Then there's that other legal type that hangs around here sometimes. Not that you need the hint: he and GC are often at odds so until we get both of their opinions on this matter, it cannot be considered resolved.

 

[mr gib]

No myth. It has been widely reported. He briefed palyers and agents.

You are engaging in revisionist history.

you're right - bob said save your pennies it'll take 24 months

 

[X0ssbar]

The new issue concerns the reading of the emails.This new issue is a convenient excuse to dump Saskin.Only problem is the PA was reading emails when Bob Goodenow.All of rank and file members of the NHLPA are issued lap tops.They have to register their passwords with the PA.This has been going on before Saskin was the executive director

That's how I see it as well. This whole email deal is an excuse for certain factions of this union to push their own agendas.

 

[GSC2k2*]

2. Most agents are lawyers. Insert your favorte "lawyers and ethics" remark here.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I forget I have to carefully weigh and re-weigh every letter of every word I write here with all you legal types here. I'll even be nice and refrain from the lawyer jokes.

Okay, there are media reports now suggesting that the direct communication happening between the NHL and player agents might have been... what... questionable? If I say unethical it's likely to become an ethics debate so I won't say it. In discussing negotiation blunders with IB, one does have to consider all the information coming out. What really happened however may not be known for some time.

Of course I won't be able to find a link, but I do recall Bettman attempting to avoid making a joke about the apparent feedback he was getting about the state of the player's union, perhaps around January and February. Something wasn't right, we probably never will know what it was and/or who it was but it does seem that the NHL had a bit of insight into union affairs. I'm not blaming the NHL either. How do you look a gift horse in the mouth, eh?

Absolutely nothing wrong with lawyer jokes. Most lawyers enjoy passing them around amongst themselves. I have anumber of books of lawyer jokes and you will find that many bar associations have a section on their websites dedicated to lawyer jokes. If you cannot laugh at yourself.....

Agents are bound by legal principles such as the fiduciary duty (utmost trust) by the agent to his principal (the player). That applies to all agents whether or not they are lawyers.

Lawyers have additional duties as a function of acting in the capacity of a lawyer. They would be subject to discipline by the applicable provincial Law Society in Canada and I beleive the state bar associations in the US.

All agents are certified by the NHLPA and must adhere to a Code of Conduct. There are also requirements placed on agents under the CBA in regards to aiding and abetting circumvention of the salary cap.

If the agents breached the NHLPA Code of Conduct then they can have their certification pulled - no certification no representation. IIRC an agent was decertified during the lockout for giving unauthorized access to some portions of the NHLPA website.

 

[Larionov]

As stated earlier, I strongly believe Saskin did the right thing for his members in ending the lockout, but he dug his own grave with the e-mail monitoring. You simply cannot do that under any circumstances. I'll tolerate CSIS or the CIA doing it on matters of national security, but the Director of an Association whose salary I am paying? I don't think so.

Saying that the last guy did it also doesn't buy you much sympathy. When you got caught doing something stupid as a kid, and your excuse to your parents was was, "Bobby was doing it too!", how did that go over? Not very well is the short answer. People are very sensitive to privacy issues today, as Ted just discovered.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We have two threads on the same thing ... so I combined them to get all the points in one place.

The question which has yet to be answered by anyone is, "does the head of the NHLPA or the executive committee have the right to read the e-mails of the members of the union?" Where I work, and I'm sure where many of you work as well, the company has a policy stated up front that says, "These are our computers, running on our systems - we have the right to monitor and read e-mails to/from/in your account at any time." If that policy isn't in place within the NHLPA and isn't clearly communicated to the members of the union, then there's problems regardless of whether Goodenow was cherrypicking through e-mails previously or not.

Sure, it's a chance for guys on both sides to push their own agendas - but if that policy isn't in place, Saskin is a fool if he thought the "but Bob did it back in the day" defense is going to help him out, especially since he knew Chelios and Klatt et. al. were looking for anything they could find to rally the troops to get rid of him.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Absolutely nothing wrong with lawyer jokes. Most lawyers enjoy passing them around amongst themselves. I have anumber of books of lawyer jokes and you will find that many bar associations have a section on their websites dedicated to lawyer jokes. If you cannot laugh at yourself.....

Agents are bound by legal principles such as the fiduciary duty (utmost trust) by the agent to his principal (the player). That applies to all agents whether or not they are lawyers.

Lawyers have additional duties as a function of acting in the capacity of a lawyer. They would be subject to discipline by the applicable provincial Law Society in Canada and I beleive the state bar associations in the US.

All agents are certified by the NHLPA and must adhere to a Code of Conduct. There are also requirements placed on agents under the CBA in regards to aiding and abetting circumvention of the salary cap.

If the agents breached the NHLPA Code of Conduct then they can have their certification pulled - no certification no representation. IIRC an agent was decertified during the lockout for giving unauthorized access to some portions of the NHLPA website.

I agree with my brother Wetcoaster (Wettie will get that).

Short of having breached the Code of Conduct of the NHLPA for agents, agents do not have any fiduciary duty, or indeed any duty of care, to the NHLPA. Whether the PA could decertify agents for the backchannel discussions would be based on a reading of the Code of Conduct. Indeed, for lawyer agents, one might even make the convincing argument that, if they believe their clients are not being well served by the union, they might have a duty to engage in those backchannel discussions.

 

[kdb209]

I believe the option to re-open is after four years.

Correct - the NHLPA has the option to terminate the CBA (with 120 days notice) as of Sept 15, 2009.

ARTICLE 3
DURATION OF AGREEMENT

3.1 Term.

(a) This Agreement is effective retroactive to September 16, 2004 (the
“Effective Dateâ€), and shall remain in full force and effect until midnight New York time
on September 15, 2011, and shall remain in effect from year to year thereafter unless and
until either party shall deliver to the other a written notice of termination of this
Agreement at least 120 days prior to September 15, 2011 or not less than a like period in
any year thereafter.

(b) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary set forth in subparagraph 3.1(a),
the NHLPA shall have the right: (i) to terminate this Agreement as of September 15,
2009 by delivery of written notice of termination to the NHL at least 120 days prior to
September 15, 2009; or (ii) to extend this Agreement for one additional year to
September 15, 2012 by delivery of written notice to the NHL of such election to extend at
least 120 days prior to September 15, 2011.

 

[Fugu]

We have two threads on the same thing ... so I combined them to get all the points in one place.

The question which has yet to be answered by anyone is, "does the head of the NHLPA or the executive committee have the right to read the e-mails of the members of the union?" Where I work, and I'm sure where many of you work as well, the company has a policy stated up front that says, "These are our computers, running on our systems - we have the right to monitor and read e-mails to/from/in your account at any time." If that policy isn't in place within the NHLPA and isn't clearly communicated to the members of the union, then there's problems regardless of whether Goodenow was cherrypicking through e-mails previously or not.

Sure, it's a chance for guys on both sides to push their own agendas - but if that policy isn't in place, Saskin is a fool if he thought the "but Bob did it back in the day" defense is going to help him out, especially since he knew Chelios and Klatt et. al. were looking for anything they could find to rally the troops to get rid of him.

And certainly this might apply to anyone the NHLPA hires to work at the NHLPA. I think this part is crystal clear.

Was this illegal? I don't think that is the question completely, IB. Firstly, the players are the employers of the Exec Director and all NHLPA staff, not as individuals, but collectively through the association.

Secondly, the players do want and need to trust their Executive Director... I don't know WHY they would need to feel this way. But yeah, having this come on top of an internal investigation? Not a good mix.

 

[Fugu]

Absolutely nothing wrong with lawyer jokes. Most lawyers enjoy passing them around amongst themselves. I have a number of books of lawyer jokes and you will find that many bar associations have a section on their websites dedicated to lawyer jokes. If you cannot laugh at yourself.....

Agents are bound by legal principles such as the fiduciary duty (utmost trust) by the agent to his principal (the player). That applies to all agents whether or not they are lawyers.

Lawyers have additional duties as a function of acting in the capacity of a lawyer. They would be subject to discipline by the applicable provincial Law Society in Canada and I beleive the state bar associations in the US.

All agents are certified by the NHLPA and must adhere to a Code of Conduct. There are also requirements placed on agents under the CBA in regards to aiding and abetting circumvention of the salary cap.

If the agents breached the NHLPA Code of Conduct then they can have their certification pulled - no certification no representation. If I recall correctly an agent was decertified during the lockout for giving unauthorized access to some portions of the NHLPA website.

Thank you, Wetcoaster and GC. I can see the two of you are on the same wavelength as always!

 

[GSC2k2*]

Thank you, Wetcoaster and GC. I can see the two of you are on the same wavelength as always!

 

[The Legend]

That's how I see it as well. This whole email deal is an excuse for certain factions of this union to push their own agendas.

You say whatever crap you want about "Certain factions" pushign for the change, but the fact remains that the majority of NHL players no longer like the way any of this went down. Even players such as Marty Turco and Kevyn Adams, who both used to be loyal to Saskin, are in support of this change.

 

[Larionov]

http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dip&pid=37641&tid=37641&eid=31&so=1&ps=0&sb=1

Here's a little outside perspective on this issue from Adam Radwanski, a Canadian political columnist and editor with Macleans magazine. Adam is also a big sports fan. If anyone wanted to know why the NHLPA had a hard time winning the PR battle during the lockout, this may help you out.

 

[RandV]

You say whatever crap you want about "Certain factions" pushign for the change, but the fact remains that the majority of NHL players no longer like the way any of this went down. Even players such as Marty Turco and Kevyn Adams, who both used to be loyal to Saskin, are in support of this change.

That's something that shouldn't be overlooked. This whole thing started with only a few dissenters, but the fact that it's grown should say something.

As for the email thing, monitoring emails is pretty common place, but wasn't this whole issue about tampering with them? Like using their administrator power to edit/delete critism.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

And certainly this might apply to anyone the NHLPA hires to work at the NHLPA. I think this part is crystal clear.

Was this illegal? I don't think that is the question completely, IB. Firstly, the players are the employers of the Exec Director and all NHLPA staff, not as individuals, but collectively through the association.

Secondly, the players do want and need to trust their Executive Director... I don't know WHY they would need to feel this way. But yeah, having this come on top of an internal investigation? Not a good mix.

Was it illegal? I don't know ... but if there's no policy warning the players that their e-mails could be monitored, then I think there's an expectation of privacy that's clearly been breached. Yes, the Executive Director serves at the pleasure of the players much like the Commissioner serves at the pleasure of the owners ... but among the perks granted to Saskin, somehow I think " ... and you can read anyone's e-mails at any time for whatever reason you like" is not one of the intended perks.

The other thing going here (which is less discussed, but probably just as relevant) is that apparently a few of the agents of the dissident players have been locked out of their accounts. Why? Combine it all, and something stinks.

 

[Fugu]

http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dip&pid=37641&tid=37641&eid=31&so=1&ps=0&sb=1

Here's a little outside perspective on this issue from Adam Radwanski, a Canadian political columnist and editor with Macleans magazine. Adam is also a big sports fan. If anyone wanted to know why the NHLPA had a hard time winning the PR battle during the lockout, this may help you out.

Well it was looking like a good article until I clicked on the link to the story by a Chris Selley that referred to the lockout as a strike.

It's one thing for ordinary fans to make that mistake, but a reporter writing a summary on the NHLPA and aftermath of the CBA? Incredible.

Saskin was named head of the union after Goodenow resigned in the wake of the players' strike in 2004-2005. Chelios, Klatt and former star Steve Larmer had charged the hiring violated the union's constitution. But Saskin negotiated a five-year contract with Trevor Linden, the former union president.

However he did remind me of this tidbit that was one of the major issues dividing Saskin and the dissident group:

Other, more complicated issues are dogging the union as well. Among them is the possibility that Saskin had a hand in offering [NHLPA funds] - unbeknownst to the players - to make up any difference between the share of league revenue to which the owners are entitled and the player salaries held in escrow during the year until revenue figures are determined. The Chelios camp claims such complexities "effectively changed the CBA from a "soft [salary] cap" to a "hard cap" system.