NHLPA/Saskin Email Controversy (Saskin fired)

[Fugu]

Didn't he just graduate from law school within the past 2 years?

Oh, but he knows the issues.

I have no idea what Mr. Grimson's academic degrees and dates of matriculation would be. However the article referenced identified Mr. Grimson as 'union counsel'. Apparently he is familiar with at least some of the issues seeing that Saskin and Kim have been place on leave.

 

[bling]

Well it was looking like a good article until I clicked on the link to the story by a Chris Selley that referred to the lockout as a strike.
It's one thing for ordinary fans to make that mistake, but a reporter writing a summary on the NHLPA and aftermath of the CBA? Incredible.



However he did remind me of this tidbit that was one of the major issues dividing Saskin and the dissident group:

Yep, that is an issue that I see duplictaed all over. Even in this very thread..although the person who did it tried to backtrack and claim it was a mistype..the tenor of his post made it quite clear he really did think of the lockout as a player walkout.

That common and uncorrected misunderstanding is one of the larger issues that have caused the public to scorn the players instead of placing blame where it belonged..on the Team Owners who chose to refuse to allow the players to play until they succumbed to the Ownerships demands for a salary cap.

I know..old news, water under the bridge and all that but it still rankles me read and hear this type if misinformation.

 

[bling]

Didn't he just graduate from law school within the past 2 years?

Oh, but he knows the issues.

Perhaps you would like to share your educational history.

I would like to know how long you have held a law degree and what gives you the right to ridicule and make a joke of Grimsons education and knowledge of the issues?

 

[PecaFan]

You say whatever crap you want about "Certain factions" pushign for the change, but the fact remains that the majority of NHL players no longer like the way any of this went down. Even players such as Marty Turco and Kevyn Adams, who both used to be loyal to Saskin, are in support of this change.

Certainly, the majority have changed their minds, because they believe this whole email thing is important.

Which is kinda silly, the one thing most of us learned years ago was that you don't use email for secure communication. Remember "don't email your credit card info"? It's not just your bosses that might be looking, you've also got the general public and black hats, etc.

It's pretty funny, they're about to can a guy who has done an excellent job for them, negotiated a pretty damn good deal, all for pretty much nothing. And they're likely to pay millions for the pleasure of doing so.

Fine, it's their right. But I'm still going to laugh at the Disfunctional Gang.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Certainly, the majority have changed their minds, because they believe this whole email thing is important.

Which is kinda silly, the one thing most of us learned years ago was that you don't use email for secure communication. Remember "don't email your credit card info"? It's not just your bosses that might be looking, you've also got the general public and black hats, etc.

However in this case the employee (Saskin) was reading his bosses' (the players') private e-mail.

Quite different.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I agree with my brother Wetcoaster (Wettie will get that).

Short of having breached the Code of Conduct of the NHLPA for agents, agents do not have any fiduciary duty, or indeed any duty of care, to the NHLPA. Whether the PA could decertify agents for the backchannel discussions would be based on a reading of the Code of Conduct. Indeed, for lawyer agents, one might even make the convincing argument that, if they believe their clients are not being well served by the union, they might have a duty to engage in those backchannel discussions.

Thanks to my learned friend.

 

[X0ssbar]

You say whatever crap you want about "Certain factions" pushign for the change, but the fact remains that the majority of NHL players no longer like the way any of this went down. Even players such as Marty Turco and Kevyn Adams, who both used to be loyal to Saskin, are in support of this change.

Well you know whats funny.....Tim Taylor was just on Sportsnet during the intermission of the Flames/Blues game and he said that it appears that alot of the complaints leveled against Saskin, including this email deal, were in place when "Bob" (as he called him) was there. Furthermore he said that they should probably stop digging as more names will probably come out and that he's afraid they have just scratched the surface.

I wonder if Chelios, one who is well known for backing Bob Goodenow, will now call a spade a spade.

Your absolutely kidding yourself if you don't think there are different groups within the players association that aren't pushing their own agendas.

Saskin is the fall guy IMO. I'm gratefull that he and Linden finally resolved this thing and got us our hockey back. If I point fingers I continue to point them at the root of the problem and that's Bob Goodenow.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I have no idea what Mr. Grimson's academic degrees and dates of matriculation would be. However the article referenced identified Mr. Grimson as 'union counsel'. Apparently he is familiar with at least some of the issues seeing that Saskin and Kim have been place on leave.

A good Wetcoast boy from Vancouver originally.

He has his law degree from the University of Memphis which he obtained in December 2005.

 

[GSC2k2*]

A good Wetcoast boy from Vancouver originally.

He has his law degree from the University of Memphis which he obtained in December 2005.

Grimson is having himself quite the rookie year.

Actually, while Grimson's name is coming up a lot in the reports, I suspect that is mostly because he is a former player. There is not a possibility that any first year lawyer would have the first clue how to deal with this type of stressful high pressure situation. This is the corporate equivalent of running a murder trial in your first year. I would imagine that Ian Penny is running things for the most part.

 

[PecaFan]

However in this case the employee (Saskin) was reading his bosses' (the players') private e-mail.

Riiiight. Do you really want to state that "employer is to employee as union member is to Executive Director"?

 

[Hawker14]

Riiiight. Do you really want to state that "employer is to employee as union member is to Executive Director"?

not to speak for him, but i think that's exactly what he's saying. and he's right. saskin is an employee of the membership.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Riiiight. Do you really want to state that "employer is to employee as union member is to Executive Director"?

In this case yes.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Grimson is having himself quite the rookie year.

Actually, while Grimson's name is coming up a lot in the reports, I suspect that is mostly because he is a former player. There is not a possibility that any first year lawyer would have the first clue how to deal with this type of stressful high pressure situation. This is the corporate equivalent of running a murder trial in your first year. I would imagine that Ian Penny is running things for the most part.

Pretty unlikely he would have the bark on him to handle this. It is one thing to have the academic qualifications, it is quite another to have the legal experience to handle this type of situation.

Actually more like defending a serial killer

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Could, in any way, shape, or form... this lead to legal action regarding the CBA(potentially voiding it?)

IF they decide he was hired improperly, does it not make his sig on the CBA potentially void?

just a question....

 

[Crazy_Ike]

That common and uncorrected misunderstanding is one of the larger issues that have caused the public to scorn the players instead of placing blame where it belonged..on the Team Owners who chose to refuse to allow the players to play until they succumbed to the Ownerships demands for a salary cap.

Sorry, but no. The public rightly "scorned" the players because they understood a salary cap - or at least a system that had all the teams spending reasonably close to the same amount of money - was exactly what the league needed.

But thanks for the laugh. Haven't seen a true player shill around here in a while, most went into hiding when their world collapsed.

Blame was on the NHLPA. History has proven that.

 

[The Legend]

Certainly, the majority have changed their minds, because they believe this whole email thing is important.

Which is kinda silly, the one thing most of us learned years ago was that you don't use email for secure communication. Remember "don't email your credit card info"? It's not just your bosses that might be looking, you've also got the general public and black hats, etc.
It's pretty funny, they're about to can a guy who has done an excellent job for them, negotiated a pretty damn good deal, all for pretty much nothing. And they're likely to pay millions for the pleasure of doing so.

Fine, it's their right. But I'm still going to laugh at the Disfunctional Gang.

The thing you are forgetting is the NHLPA are not the players bosses, rather they work FOR the players

 

[GSC2k2*]

Could, in any way, shape, or form... this lead to legal action regarding the CBA(potentially voiding it?)

IF they decide he was hired improperly, does it not make his sig on the CBA potentially void?

just a question....

No.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Could, in any way, shape, or form... this lead to legal action regarding the CBA(potentially voiding it?)

IF they decide he was hired improperly, does it not make his sig on the CBA potentially void?

just a question....

I cannot see that happening.

Also Goodenow was at the helm when the deal was signed. He left later and Saskin took over.

 

[jamiebez]

A good Wetcoast boy from Vancouver originally.

He has his law degree from the University of Memphis which he obtained in December 2005.

And a fellow U of Manitoba grad! He did his Bachelor's (Economics) there while playing for the Bisons.

 

[blitzkriegs]

I have no idea what Mr. Grimson's academic degrees and dates of matriculation would be. However the article referenced identified Mr. Grimson as 'union counsel'. Apparently he is familiar with at least some of the issues seeing that Saskin and Kim have been place on leave.

After retiring, Stu finished his undergraduate degree and began work on a law degree. He completed his law degree in December 2005 at the University of Memphis Law School and currently works for the NHL Players Association.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stu_Grimson

And "counsel" is usually referred to other professions outside legal? Most 2nd year lawyers are "counsel" for multi-million dollar labor unions...must have missed that kamikazi mission.

 

[Buffaloed]

I have no idea what Mr. Grimson's academic degrees and dates of matriculation would be. However the article referenced identified Mr. Grimson as 'union counsel'. Apparently he is familiar with at least some of the issues seeing that Saskin and Kim have been place on leave.

Stu's been working with the NHLPA for years having served as a player rep and vp of the executive committee. He's a very bright guy and I'm sure he knows the issues inside and out. He's in a very precarious position as he was hired by Saskin to fill Goodenow's position as general counsel (Goodenow held both positions: executive director and general counsel). When an executive director is named, I suspect Grimson will be joining Saskin and Kim on the sidelines.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Perhaps you would like to share your educational history.

I would like to know how long you have held a law degree and what gives you the right to ridicule and make a joke of Grimsons education and knowledge of the issues?

I'm not placing myself in the public eye of a multi-million dollar labor union war as their 'counsel,' so my education and experiences are not at issue here. I can criticize his documented academics with his current position and infer that he is most likely way in over his head absent experienced counselors of law.

98% of 1st and 2nd year lawyers, well, know jack-crap, let alone the complex nature of labor unions. That's not a secret. Now, Grimson may have years of service in the NHLPA and therefore knows the issues surrounding the union, however, to navigate those waters as "union counsel" 2 years removed from law school is laughable.

 

[Fugu]

And "counsel" is usually referred to other professions outside legal? Most 2nd year lawyers are "counsel" for multi-million dollar labor unions...must have missed that kamikazi mission.

One of the Admins kindly puts Stu's role and title into perspective, per quotation below. He could easily be off golfing somewhere but instead chose to pursue an education & professional career after his playing days. I kinda like that in a person myself:

Stu's been working with the NHLPA for years having served as a player rep and vp of the executive committee. He's a very bright guy and I'm sure he knows the issues inside and out. He's in a very precarious position as he was hired by Saskin to fill Goodenow's position as general counsel (Goodenow held both positions: executive director and general counsel). When an executive director is named, I suspect Grimson will be joining Saskin and Kim on the sidelines.

 

[blitzkriegs]

One of the Admins kindly puts Stu's role and title into perspective, per quotation below. He could easily be off golfing somewhere but instead chose to pursue an education & professional career after his playing days. I kinda like that in a person myself:

That's all fine and dandy. I applaud him for obtaining a higher level of education.

However, my initial statement is that a person 8 months removed from a potential "pass" on a Bar and 15 months removed from law school is most likely not qualified on the legal issues surrounding this situation, let alone the entire BHLPA labor union.

 

[GSC2k2*]

That's all fine and dandy. I applaud him for obtaining a higher level of education.

However, my initial statement is that a person 8 months removed from a potential "pass" on a Bar and 15 months removed from law school is most likely not qualified on the legal issues surrounding this situation, let alone the entire BHLPA labor union.

Delete the "most likely" and you would have it. Maybe some day for Mr. Grimson, but there is not a first year lawyer who could handle this. As you state above, first year lawyers are, to put it bluntly, pretty well useless (sometimes they stay useless for many, many more years ). Experience is an absolute necessity for handling a file like this. Even a lawyer with five to seven years of solid experience working on important files would be in a little trouble. As I said above, there is no chance that Ian Penny is not in charge of this matter. Grimson is doing the grunt work, taking people's statements and the like.

Incidentally, I have seen Grimson's position referred to as "Legal Counsel". I do not believe GRimson is the NHLPA's GC, particularly with more senior lawyers like Penny on staff.