NHL to Seattle Volume XIII - UPDATE 12/7 NHL will accept Seattle application - Expansion fee $650 M

[gstommylee]

I'm from Seattle and have covered the NHL as a reporter. I lived in Lower Queen Anne (Basically across the street from the Arena) when the Sonics were at their peak. I've also done extensive research on this topic since the Sonics left the city.

These are the conclusions I've come to:

- The only way you can re-do the Seattle Center is to level a three block radius around the entire complex as well as the roads to/from 1-5 and start from scratch. We all know that isn't happening.

- If the City wanted SoDo to happen, it would have happened by now.

- The City messed up Key Arena the first time around, they still haven't learned their lesson.

- The City, State, and County governments are cowards in that they're too worried about getting re-elected than to look forward to the bigger picture with the arena and the region.

- Anyone who thinks a Key Arena re-model is the right way to go never sat in some of the narrow seats. They're so narrow that a barbie doll would not fit in them.

- Voters still remember the governments sneaking the other two pro stadiums past them years ago.

- Former Sonics owner Barry Ackerley made Key Arena into a basketball only arena and stopped the purchase of an NHL team at the last minute. We all know that turned out.

- Hansen not embracing the NHL as well as the NBA for an arena will be his undoing.

- Any option at the Seattle Center is a joke given how the region and traffic has grown.

- And yet again fans need to be reminded that the NBA and NHL won't touch Seattle with a 10 foot pole until an arena deal is signed, sealed, and delivered.

Looking at the designs of OVG's plan. It doesn't even come clsoe to being another 95 renovation. The city did learn their lesson in terms of making sure it fits the needs of the NBA/NHL. What OVG's planning is what we should have gotten in 95. The arena is 100% privately funded the only public fund thing is credit for it being a national historic landmark which isn't a given at this point and it'll take several years before that determination.

There is no other location to put the arena to where there isn't massive roadblock that's ideal. So essentially your suggesting the entire region is a joke for the arena.

Here's the thing its not OVG's responsiblity to adress every single traffic problem in Seattle.

 

[brewski420]

I'm from Seattle and have covered the NHL as a reporter. I lived in Lower Queen Anne (Basically across the street from the Arena) when the Sonics were at their peak. I've also done extensive research on this topic since the Sonics left the city.

These are the conclusions I've come to:

- The only way you can re-do the Seattle Center is to level a three block radius around the entire complex as well as the roads to/from 1-5 and start from scratch. We all know that isn't happening.

- If the City wanted SoDo to happen, it would have happened by now.

- The City messed up Key Arena the first time around, they still haven't learned their lesson.

- The City, State, and County governments are cowards in that they're too worried about getting re-elected than to look forward to the bigger picture with the arena and the region.

- Anyone who thinks a Key Arena re-model is the right way to go never sat in some of the narrow seats. They're so narrow that a barbie doll would not fit in them.

- Voters still remember the governments sneaking the other two pro stadiums past them years ago.

- Former Sonics owner Barry Ackerley made Key Arena into a basketball only arena and stopped the purchase of an NHL team at the last minute. We all know that turned out.

- Hansen not embracing the NHL as well as the NBA for an arena will be his undoing.

- Any option at the Seattle Center is a joke given how the region and traffic has grown.

- And yet again fans need to be reminded that the NBA and NHL won't touch Seattle with a 10 foot pole until an arena deal is signed, sealed, and delivered.

Your conclusions have been pretty much tossed around endlessly. Hopefully you are not submitting a story, as a reporter, to be published soon. All old arguments. But Seattle loves rehashing old challenges and calling it new so you may find an audience.

 

[Dolemite]

Looking at the designs of OVG's plan. It doesn't even come clsoe to being another 95 renovation. The city did learn their lesson in terms of making sure it fits the needs of the NBA/NHL. What OVG's planning is what we should have gotten in 95. The arena is 100% privately funded the only public fund thing is credit for it being a national historic landmark which isn't a given at this point and it'll take several years before that determination.

There is no other location to put the arena to where there isn't massive roadblock that's ideal. So essentially your suggesting the entire region is a joke for the arena.

Here's the thing its not OVG's responsiblity to adress every single traffic problem in Seattle.

The problem is the area around the arena. The complex was built for the 1960’s World’s fair and the streets around the arena are from the dawn of Time. This is the City’s problem if they don’t address it. But they’re more worried about getting re-elected coupled with the fact that Paul Allen owns the majority of the land between the Seattle Center complex and I-5 (mostly occupied by Amazon.

This won’t be addressed and their solutions for mass transit and all that other garbage won’t fly.

 

[gstommylee]

The problem is the area around the arena. The complex was built for the 1960’s World’s fair and the streets around the arena are from the dawn of Time. This is the City’s problem if they don’t address it. But they’re more worried about getting re-elected coupled with the fact that Paul Allen owns the majority of the land between the Seattle Center complex and I-5 (mostly occupied by Amazon.

This won’t be addressed and their solutions for mass transit and all that other garbage won’t fly.

Since sodo arena is dead, you do realize no matter where they put the arena there is going to be the same traffic is terrible argument. There is no other area in the region where traffic won't be a problem.

Its not OVG job to address every dang traffic problem in Seattle. That's the city's problem.

 

[Fenway]

I'd say that's a good bet. Also considering Jeremy Jacobs company stands to get the concessions contract for the renovated Key Arena.

BINGO

I haven't been to Seattle in a few years but my memory is that transit to the World's Fair site was limited. There was the monorail and busses but little else.

 

[superdeluxe]

I'm from Seattle and have covered the NHL as a reporter. I lived in Lower Queen Anne (Basically across the street from the Arena) when the Sonics were at their peak. I've also done extensive research on this topic since the Sonics left the city.

These are the conclusions I've come to:

The only way you can re-do the Seattle Center is to level a three block radius around the entire complex as well as the roads to/from 1-5 and start from scratch. We all know that isn't happening.

Well that is not what they are doing, and they are moving forward with great interest from the NHL and NBA

- If the City wanted SoDo to happen, it would have happened by now.

This is true

- The City messed up Key Arena the first time around, they still haven't learned their lesson.

Leiweke has more experience with arenas than pretty much anyone as head of AEG and oakview, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt unless you have additional information?

- The City, State, and County governments are cowards in that they're too worried about getting re-elected than to look forward to the bigger picture with the arena and the region.

The sports arena barely moves the political needle in the city

- Anyone who thinks a Key Arena re-model is the right way to go never sat in some of the narrow seats. They're so narrow that a barbie doll would not fit in them.

I've sit in those seats, they are taking everything out of the arena. How much do you really know about the state of the current project? They doing more than just putting on a new coat of paint

- Voters still remember the governments sneaking the other two pro stadiums past them years ago.

And? Sports arena issues aren't a significant enough issue in Seattle

- Former Sonics owner Barry Ackerley made Key Arena into a basketball only arena and stopped the purchase of an NHL team at the last minute. We all know that turned out.

He sure did, thankfully Leiweke already has a Hockey group and they are investing in the arena so I don't foresee those problems

- Hansen not embracing the NHL as well as the NBA for an arena will be his undoing.

This is true, I believe Seattle would have gotten a NHL team of Hansen had worked out a deal with a NHL owner at a Sodo

- Any option at the Seattle Center is a joke given how the region and traffic has grown.

Traffic is a challenge, no one will deny that. I've seen some hyperbole but no actual real facts in how bad this traffic is

- And yet again fans need to be reminded that the NBA and NHL won't touch Seattle with a 10 foot pole until an arena deal is signed, sealed, and delivered.

It's coming in Early December

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

So this exchange just happened a short time ago in the Council morning briefing, as per Daniels:





What Harrell may be referring to in his initial comments as reported by CD5 is that the Council may be looking at hiring an independent examiner to review the financials of the proposed Key MOU with Oak View, ostensibly to slow this down a bit. We'll see, but this probably was not unexpected.

I should add as well that if you go over to the Seattle Times today, Geoff Baker's sports business column talks about reports of possible interest by the WHL to stage possibly a pair of outdoor games at Safeco Field, involving both the T-birds and Silvertips. This could be a good test piece for the NHL to watch as they might want to do such a thing themselves if they choose to expand this direction.

UPDATE: Some video:

 

[superdeluxe]

http://www.king5.com/mobile/article...team-by-2020-says-councilmember/281-489605087

It's going to happen

 

[aqib]

It's not A renovation, it's a brand new building under the roof, you are comparing this to the 1994 renovation of they Key and it is not going to be a cheap Reno.

What stopped Seattle from bidding in the most recent expansion process is there was no arena deal for an NHL owner in 2015

Since you're in Seattle, can I ask you a question. What is so historical about Key? Its not Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. Why did they work so hard to save it? Why not just sell the land an implode it?

 

[gstommylee]

Since you're in Seattle, can I ask you a question. What is so historical about Key? Its not Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. Why did they work so hard to save it? Why not just sell the land an implode it?

The roof line structure goes beyond the 95 renovations and is actually old enough to be consider for historic landamark destination and as of a few months ago it was declared historic landmark. Everything else but the roof can be touched. Problem is they can't just extend or change it hence why OVG's proposal has them digging down another 15 feet.

Now they could have easily tore everything down and rebuild from ground up during the 95 arena but they went on the cheap and done the renovation with the original roof line in mind. Hence all the issues the NBA had with it which led to the loss of the NBA. That limited potential footprint the arena could have been.

 

[aqib]

The roof line structure goes beyond the 95 renovations and is actually old enough to be consider for historic landamark destination and as of a few months ago it was declared historic landmark. Everything else but the roof can be touched. Problem is they can't just extend or change it hence why OVG's proposal has them digging down another 15 feet.

Now they could have easily tore everything down and rebuild from ground up during the 95 arena but they went on the cheap and done the renovation with the original roof line in mind. Hence all the issues the NBA had with it which led to the loss of the NBA. That limited potential footprint the arena could have been.

So its historic because its old? I'm sorry, I am just wondering why the city was so adamant about saving it. It seems to me they would be better off knocking it down and selling the land.

 

[Killion]

Since you're in Seattle, can I ask you a question. What is so historical about Key? Its not Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. Why did they work so hard to save it? Why not just sell the land an implode it?

Not up on your "history of Seattle" aqib?..... What became known as Key Arena along with the Space Needle, Alweg Monorail, a Performing Arts Center & other infrastructure was all built for the 1962 Seattle Worlds Fair, a major & seminal event in the history of the city, the State & really entire Pacific Northwest. The Cold War was at its height, the space race was on (in 1947 private pilot Kenneth Arnold during a bright & clear daytime flight near Mt Rainier spotted a flight of strange semi disc semi delta winged craft moving at incredible speeds, a reporter covering the story giving birth to to the term "Flying Saucers", sightings following en mass in near on hysterical numbers through the 50's & into the 60's to today), local heavyweight Boeing and associative businesses leaders in the transportation & aerospace industry leading the way, Seattle transforming itself from what had been for most of the 19th & 20th century more a resource based & port economy into a high-tech cutting edge city of the future.

The 1962 Seattles World Fair put the city of Seattle on the map (just as Montreals' Expo 67 & Vancouver's Expo 86 did for those cities) in a huge way, on the World Stage, with the Space Needle, Monorail, the Arena & Seattle Center, those buildings visited by millions & ahead of their time becoming iconic fixtures/images of the city itself. Seattle Center also later becoming home to the Museum of Modern Pop Culture (amongst other attractions) in keeping with the theme of the original Worlds Fair. So yes, its an important building & area to the city & its residents, at minimum the facade should be retained and that is precisely what their doing. Basically keeping the roofline & profile while completely imploding the interior, digging down 15' deeper & installing a 21st century bowl with all the bells & whistles. Originally, the arena was designed to be equally compatible for hockey as it was for basketball, Seattle granted a "conditional NHL franchise" in the early 70's, however... the applicant was betrayed by his NBA partners at the last minute, they then going on to demand reno after reno of Key Arena to the point that what once was a hockey friendly building was no longer.... and the rest as they say is history. To lose that building, that symbol would be to excise a huge piece of the cities past & betray the promise of the future that was made in 1962 & which to date Seattle has far surpassed in keeping.

 

[aqib]

Not up on your "history of Seattle" aqib?..... What became known as Key Arena along with the Space Needle, Alweg Monorail, a Performing Arts Center & other infrastructure was all built for the 1962 Seattle Worlds Fair, a major & seminal event in the history of the city, the State & really entire Pacific Northwest. The Cold War was at its height, the space race was on (in 1947 private pilot Kenneth Arnold during a bright & clear daytime flight near Mt Rainier spotted a flight of strange semi disc semi delta winged craft moving at incredible speeds, a reporter covering the story giving birth to to the term "Flying Saucers", sightings following en mass in near on hysterical numbers through the 50's & into the 60's to today), local heavyweight Boeing and associative businesses leaders in the transportation & aerospace industry leading the way, Seattle transforming itself from what had been for most of the 19th & 20th century more a resource based & port economy into a high-tech cutting edge city of the future.

The 1962 Seattles World Fair put the city of Seattle on the map (just as Montreals' Expo 67 & Vancouver's Expo 86 did for those cities) in a huge way, on the World Stage, with the Space Needle, Monorail, the Arena & Seattle Center, those buildings visited by millions & ahead of their time becoming iconic fixtures/images of the city itself. Seattle Center also later becoming home to the Museum of Modern Pop Culture (amongst other attractions) in keeping with the theme of the original Worlds Fair. So yes, its an important building & area to the city & its residents, at minimum the facade should be retained and that is precisely what their doing. Basically keeping the roofline & profile while completely imploding the interior, digging down 15' deeper & installing a 21st century bowl with all the bells & whistles. Originally, the arena was designed to be equally compatible for hockey as it was for basketball, Seattle granted a "conditional NHL franchise" in the early 70's, however... the applicant was betrayed by his NBA partners at the last minute, they then going on to demand reno after reno of Key Arena to the point that what once was a hockey friendly building was no longer.... and the rest as they say is history. To lose that building, that symbol would be to excise a huge piece of the cities past & betray the promise of the future that was made in 1962 & which to date Seattle has far surpassed in keeping.

Yeah I wasn't born in 1962. Just seems that with a city that gave to world Microsoft and Amazon the 1962 World Fair is a relatively minor thing to want to preserve. Especially if it means jamming an arena (and over 200 events between NBA. NHL, 50 concerts, WNBA, and U of Seattle) into an already crowded neighborhood.

 

[gstommylee]

Yeah I wasn't born in 1962. Just seems that with a city that gave to world Microsoft and Amazon the 1962 World Fair is a relatively minor thing to want to preserve. Especially if it means jamming an arena (and over 200 events between NBA. NHL, 50 concerts, WNBA, and U of Seattle) into an already crowded neighborhood.

Essentailly what Killion said there is a ton of culture value to it. There is a reason why AEG's plan was not gonna happen that would have changed the roofline enough to where it wasn't really meeting the preservation of the structure of the roof.

 

[Killion]

Yeah I wasn't born in 1962. Just seems that with a city that gave to world Microsoft and Amazon the 1962 World Fair is a relatively minor thing to want to preserve. Especially if it means jamming an arena (and over 200 events between NBA. NHL, 50 concerts, WNBA, and U of Seattle) into an already crowded neighborhood.

Thats obviously the major complaint, logistics, getting in & out, access. Its a problem but one that I believe will eventually be rectified. Im totally in favor of what theyve done, applaud the decision.... Hansen & SODO were an obstacle to Seattle receiving a team, could give a Flying Frigg about the NBA & its my hope they never darken the PNW's door ever again. Good riddance..... yet you think they'll return huh?.... Good luck with that...... I suppose it wouldnt surprise you that I also didnt agree with the Leafs leaving MLG nor other moves by NHL teams to ditch their beautiful & unique old barns rather than renovating & upgrading, dropping hundreds of millions on plastic, sterile & soulless cookie cutter facilities but then some of us I guess actually care about the history of where we live & the buildings that have history and are important to the quality of ones life & of lives from one generation to the next.

 

[gstommylee]

Thats obviously the major complaint, logistics, getting in & out, access. Its a problem but one that I believe will eventually be rectified. Im totally in favor of what theyve done, applaud the decision.... Hansen & SODO were an obstacle to Seattle receiving a team, could give a Flying Frigg about the NBA & its my hope they never darken the PNW's door ever again. Good riddance..... yet you think they'll return huh?.... Good luck with that...... I suppose it wouldnt surprise you that I also didnt agree with the Leafs leaving MLG nor other moves by NHL teams to ditch their beautiful & unique old barns rather than renovating & upgrading, dropping hundreds of millions on plastic, sterile & soulless cookie cutter facilities but then some of us I guess actually care about the history of where we live & the buildings that have history and are important to the quality of ones life & of lives from one generation to the next.

Getting in and out will always be a problem regardless of where the arena location would be at. Sodo was the only location to where it would been easy to get in and out but that is no longer an option. And any location outside of Seattle would faced the same issues as Seattle center.

I think the NBA will return but it's going to have to be done the NBA's way. Everything Lewieke has done has been not getting ahead of the NBA. That is mainly why there isn't a NBA group as of yet. The league isn't just going to open their doors to any outsider.

We are going to have someone that's already an owner (minority owner) in the NBA to be one of those owners. Who know yet of who is going to be the majority owner? But in time once the arena gets taken care off it'll be known. It could be David Bonderman that could also be majority owner of the NBA like he is off our NHL group as far as we know.

 

[brewski420]

Yeah I wasn't born in 1962. Just seems that with a city that gave to world Microsoft and Amazon the 1962 World Fair is a relatively minor thing to want to preserve. Especially if it means jamming an arena (and over 200 events between NBA. NHL, 50 concerts, WNBA, and U of Seattle) into an already crowded neighborhood.

It is an important area as pointed out by Killion and the city leaders treat it as such. Even if most believe Sodo is the better location the city has made making Key successful more important in the process. I understand that desire but don't agree the eventual result. A smaller concert venue would have been fantastic imo but it is what it is. I can live with it as long as the NHL comes.

 

[tony d]

Seattle's mayoralty will be decided today. They'll get a new mayor, wonder what that'l mean for Seattle getting a team. Should be interesting.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Seattle's mayoralty will be decided today. They'll get a new mayor, wonder what that'l mean for Seattle getting a team. Should be interesting.

Jenny Durkan is likely to be elected mayor and she has tried to stay neutral but has expressed support for Key MOU. The race to really watch is the council race between Teresa Mosqueda and Jon Grant. The belief of some on the ground here is that if Grant wins, any arena package - including the Key/OVG proposal - could run into trouble as he is a Sawant clone and wants the city to prioritize the homeless/housing issues more.

 

[gstommylee]

Jenny Durkan is likely to be elected mayor and she has tried to stay neutral but has expressed support for Key MOU. The race to really watch is the council race between Teresa Mosqueda and Jon Grant. The belief of some on the ground here is that if Grant wins, any arena package - including the Key/OVG proposal - could run into trouble as he is a Sawant clone and wants the city to prioritize the homeless/housing issues more.

I don't believe a darn thing that one person can declare arena dead when there is a super majority of other council members that want it. By the time the election is certified the day of the vote will already be set and it would be pathetic to delay everything in a 6 day notice.

 

[aqib]

Thats obviously the major complaint, logistics, getting in & out, access. Its a problem but one that I believe will eventually be rectified. Im totally in favor of what theyve done, applaud the decision.... Hansen & SODO were an obstacle to Seattle receiving a team, could give a Flying Frigg about the NBA & its my hope they never darken the PNW's door ever again. Good riddance..... yet you think they'll return huh?.... Good luck with that...... I suppose it wouldnt surprise you that I also didnt agree with the Leafs leaving MLG nor other moves by NHL teams to ditch their beautiful & unique old barns rather than renovating & upgrading, dropping hundreds of millions on plastic, sterile & soulless cookie cutter facilities but then some of us I guess actually care about the history of where we live & the buildings that have history and are important to the quality of ones life & of lives from one generation to the next.

Obviously not an NBA fan I see. Seattle will probably get either the Hornets in 2024 or the Grizzlies in 2029 when their leases expire.

 

[BattleBorn]

Obviously not an NBA fan I see. Seattle will probably get either the Hornets in 2024 or the Grizzlies in 2029 when their leases expire.

I can't imagine the league doesn't expand prior to either of those things happening.

 

[gstommylee]

Regarding the NBA playing in Key arena and the economic issues some fans have with it.



Leiweke said the NBA group will control 1/3 of all revenue so they won't be treated as a 3rd party group as some fans are worried about.

 

[PCSPounder]

Essentailly what Killion said there is a ton of culture value to it. There is a reason why AEG's plan was not gonna happen that would have changed the roofline enough to where it wasn't really meeting the preservation of the structure of the roof.

Cultural or architectural? Or both?

I'm just trying to flesh out what citizens who pushed for the designation are thinking. There's some comparison to Portland, as well, where "re-use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demolish and build" is a continuing and very large issue.

 

[gstommylee]

Cultural or architectural? Or both?

I'm just trying to flesh out what citizens who pushed for the designation are thinking. There's some comparison to Portland, as well, where "re-use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demolish and build" is a continuing and very large issue.

Both cultural and architectural. They could have took down the entire arena back during the 95 renovations and built from scratch but they didn't want to.

Only the roof and the roof structures will be kept in tact everything else will be torn down and rebuilt. A new arena under the current shell basically.