NHL to Seattle Volume XIII - UPDATE 12/7 NHL will accept Seattle application - Expansion fee $650 M

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gstommylee

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We all knew that, from the day someone proposed remodeling Key, that SODO was dead. That was obvious. That's the politics.


Meanwhile, does someone have details on the MOU as to how OVG is going to pay for the work?

Can it really be true that the city does nothing except give them the rights to do the work?
 

gstommylee

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We all knew that, from the day someone proposed remodeling Key, that SODO was dead. That was obvious. That's the politics.


Meanwhile, does someone have details on the MOU as to how OVG is going to pay for the work?

Can it really be true that the city does nothing except give them the rights to do the work?

First of all, never assume it was necessary dead. We had no idea if the city was gonna approve of it or not at the time. Secondly, the EIS and the transaction documents still need to be done and a transporation plan needs to be figured out. Sodo is dead in the meatime but if the OVG deal goes south for one of the 3 reasons i mentioned Sodo will be back in the spot light.

Well the city basically picked them to do the redevelopment work on Key arena once everything goes through that needs to be done.

The $$$ is secured with private equity contribution guaranteed by The Madison Square Garden Company and debt financed by Goldman Sachs.
 

jbron

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Aaron Levine should just let SODO go. He can't help himself. It's over. While it is a commentary, his segment brings absolutely nothing but bad blood as his "Dream Job" location fell short. Sure, SODO might have been the better location. Yet, SODO was backed by Hansen who had burned all bridges with the NBA and he failed to land an NHL investor during the process. The fact that Key Arena was already a city asset doomed SODO from the start. Aaron like Hansen wants the NBA back to Seattle. It was a narrower focus from the start and
Oak View Group pounced on it and made an opportunity for the NHL and the city. The NHL was always second fiddle in the SODO quest. Aaron backed the wrong horse in Hansen and continues to do so. His commentary should also state the pitfalls of Hansen's process.
 

gstommylee

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Aaron Levine should just let SODO go. He can't help himself. It's over. While it is a commentary, his segment brings absolutely nothing but bad blood as his "Dream Job" location fell short. Sure, SODO might have been the better location. Yet, SODO was backed by Hansen who had burned all bridges with the NBA and he failed to land an NHL investor during the process. The fact that Key Arena was already a city asset doomed SODO from the start. Aaron like Hansen wants the NBA back to Seattle. It was a narrower focus from the start and
Oak View Group pounced on it and made an opportunity for the NHL and the city. The NHL was always second fiddle in the SODO quest. Aaron backed the wrong horse in Hansen and continues to do so. His commentary should also state the pitfalls of Hansen's process.

Sodo arena wasn't doomed from the start it was that hansen slowed down the EIS after the kings failed attempt and didn't even attempt to address that key arena concern before the may 2nd failed vote. IT was over a year a few months later until he finally released his idea on a post sodo arena key arena idea. Too little too late.

Levine is asking people to move on but yet he hasn't moved on himself.
 
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cptjeff

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Eh i don't see the NFL expanding again. I think they are happy with 32 teams 2 conferences 8 division

A Toronto team and a London team have gotta be tempting, though- with one game a week, the NFL is uniquely positioned to go trans-Atlantic. And I think they'll want to get back into St. Louis at some point.
 

Silencio

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32 I think has to be the cutoff just for playoff purposes. That would put 50% of the teams in each season, and hockey has proven that teams need to be making the playoffs on a regular basis to sustain an acceptable level of fan support. 50% is pushing it IMO, and to expand further there would have to be some way to meet or exceed the 50% threshold and that would include some gimmicky play-in game, short series or "Bye Round" type of stuff that I don't think anyone should be excited about seeing in the NHL. Not to mention that it would extend the playoffs even further into the summer.

They might go the MLB route i.e. a one game "wild card" playoff followed by a best of 5 first round series
 

KevFu

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32 I think has to be the cutoff just for playoff purposes. That would put 50% of the teams in each season, and hockey has proven that teams need to be making the playoffs on a regular basis to sustain an acceptable level of fan support. 50% is pushing it IMO, and to expand further there would have to be some way to meet or exceed the 50% threshold and that would include some gimmicky play-in game, short series or "Bye Round" type of stuff that I don't think anyone should be excited about seeing in the NHL. Not to mention that it would extend the playoffs even further into the summer.

I'm both impressed and disheartened. For a long time, the joke among baseball/football first American non-hockey fan was the "everyone makes the playoffs" in hockey.

While obviously winning teams and playoff trips sell more tickets and make for better financial situations, I think this site tends to take a Sky Is Falling approach to finances of teams.

We've been talking about the few same teams being on their death beds, and a rotating list of teams that have gone from fine to death bed and back to fine, for decades now.

And the only one that move was the one evicted by their ownership group.

Now, the reason we all talk this way is obvious: For the most part, we want teams in QC and 1 or 2 more in Southern Ontario, and we really wouldn't mind seeing some of the newest franchises that are near the bottom of revenues get the axe to accomplish this.

But there's nothing "TERMINAL" about being near the bottom of revenues for prolonged periods of time. If every team were firing on all cylinders and selling out nightly, someone would still be 22-31 in revenues (And it would be the teams that don't have the same demand from people without tickets to raise prices to match teams 1-21).

For example, Buffalo and St. Louis are teams we rarely talk about being in a world of financial despair -- because of their longer histories and higher latitudes. They haven't been in the top half of revenue clubs since Forbes started their estimates for the NHL in the early 2000s.

Having 34 teams would mean one additional team missing the playoffs from what the Eastern Conference has now.

Adding markets like Vegas, Seattle, Houston and Quebec is a good thing. It grows the sport, it grows the TV contract -- another thing we all love to harp on is how the NHL has a USA TV deal that's 1/3rd the size of other Big Four Leagues... when it used to be 1/12th the size when the league had 21 teams.

The NHL is always going to have teams "taking turns" rebuilding. And some are going to be rebuilding more than others. The difference is that in baseball, they blame terrible ownership and GM decisions, and in hockey we blame the market.

Because there's not many baseball fans really ticked off at where teams are located.


They might go the MLB route i.e. a one game "wild card" playoff followed by a best of 5 first round series

That would be so awful.
 

Melrose Munch

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A Toronto team and a London team have gotta be tempting, though- with one game a week, the NFL is uniquely positioned to go trans-Atlantic. And I think they'll want to get back into St. Louis at some point.
I think St. Louis is done. The relationship between them and the NFL is very sour. The NFL let bidwill take an expansion market in Phoenix away because the county didn't want to fund a stadium. Then St. Louis cost the NFL the second largest market for 20 years, at least that's what the Maras, Kraft and Jerry Jones will say, and then Stan had been planning since 2012 to move the Rams. I honestly think if they had been given an early team like Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee ( green bay) we wouldn't be talking about St. Louis, but here we are. It's a shame because I think if they had a good team, they would be one of the better NFL markets.

Because there's not many baseball fans really ticked off at where teams are located.
Well, not always. Selig was known to be anti Oakland and said the A's should be back in Philly. Many people slam the braves for attendance and obviously some people want the Rays and Marlins gone due to low attendance.
Commentary: NHL to Seattle news supersedes arena in-fighting and bureaucratic incompetence

KCPQ's Aaron Levine's QItUp commentary last night on the NHL to Seattle......
Hansen did this to himself. No NHL group, not playing by the NBA rules, slowing the process down. Sodo is better as it would have allowed expansion for next year. But here we are.
 
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KevFu

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Well, not always. Selig was known to be anti Oakland and said the A's should be back in Philly. Many people slam the braves for attendance and obviously some people want the Rays and Marlins gone due to low attendance.

Well, yeah, I mean there's always some franchise that make fans say "ew." The A's are a whole convoluted kettle of fish I've written about before that's totally the fault of circumstance -- but I have fun blaming the Giants for everything.

But everyone knows a 2nd team in Philly, or Boston, or a third in New York is never happening in baseball. Everyone knows that San Antonio or Austin is problematic.

And you don't have an entire Eastern Time Zone livid with MLB for expanding into the West and South.

You basically have a stadium mess with the Oakland, and their beef with the Giants; terrible timing/location for the Rays stadium, and the trail of carnage from Jeff Loria ruining baseball in two markets. It's not a nationalist, intense debate by most baseball fans who wax nostalgic for teams that aren't around anymore because they didn't have four teams move in the 1990s like hockey.
 

Voight

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A Toronto team and a London team have gotta be tempting, though- with one game a week, the NFL is uniquely positioned to go trans-Atlantic. And I think they'll want to get back into St. Louis at some point.

NFL is never going to expand to London. NFLPA for one wont allow it, you're asking players to move to a completely different country/culture, the currency could become an issue and it would be a logistical nightmare. Among many other issues.
 

Killion

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BREAKING NEWS : More cows watch hockey in the US than people in Canada do.

;)

Now now... poster was right about Idaho though.... more cows than people.... 1,612,126 humans.... 2,190,000 cows, ratio of 1.36 cattle to humans.... South Dakota however, ranks highest in cattle to human population at 4.32 and is a great hockey market at the minor pro & amateur levels despite its smallish population of only 844,877 people but with a cattle population 3,650,000 ... youd think Sioux Falls or Rapid City would be applying for an NHL franchise huh? .... of course, well versed in all of this, my people studying cattle & cattle populations in the US, globally for decades .... which you may have heard about ... abducting the odd one here n' there, borrowing their innards for study in order to insure the health of the various herds & humankind.... nothing sinister about it at all.... your welcome. :squint:
 
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powerstuck

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NFL is never going to expand to London. NFLPA for one wont allow it, you're asking players to move to a completely different country/culture, the currency could become an issue and it would be a logistical nightmare. Among many other issues.

Yet NFL among all of the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB leagues IS THE ONE who plays most often in Europe (mainly London) and who has the biggest fan following in Europe.
 

Voight

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Yet NFL among all of the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB leagues IS THE ONE who plays most often in Europe (mainly London) and who has the biggest fan following in Europe.

3-5 games a year isn't too bad for players because its also like a mini-vacation. But asking 70 of them plus staff to move there full time for half the year would be ludicrous. The majority of players would probably hate it, the logistics of having a team come there half the season would be a mess as would the London team having to fly across the pond half the year. Imagine come the playoffs? They would be exhausted. The tax situation would be killer too.

Plus what if the British government denies a player a visa because they have a criminal record? You're forced to trade/release them? Wouldn't work.
 

edog37

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NFL is never going to expand to London. NFLPA for one wont allow it, you're asking players to move to a completely different country/culture, the currency could become an issue and it would be a logistical nightmare. Among many other issues.

The NFLPA has no say in where the league expands. That's the purview of the owners...plus, it creates additional union jobs. They would welcome it...
 

edog37

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3-5 games a year isn't too bad for players because its also like a mini-vacation. But asking 70 of them plus staff to move there full time for half the year would be ludicrous. The majority of players would probably hate it, the logistics of having a team come there half the season would be a mess as would the London team having to fly across the pond half the year. Imagine come the playoffs? They would be exhausted. The tax situation would be killer too.

Plus what if the British government denies a player a visa because they have a criminal record? You're forced to trade/release them? Wouldn't work.

So, people are magically drawn to Green Bay, Wisconsin for the winter weather? It's the NFL, guys are drafted into the league far away from their hometowns & into some interesting locales. They have multiple homes anyway. Since only a small percentage of college players make the pros (something like 3%), a better chance of going pro far outweighs any logistical challenge.

Regarding the visa issue, that possibility already exists in MLB, the NHL & the NBA.
 

BKIslandersFan

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They may have no say where the league expands to but they also represent the players and look out for their best interests.



I don't think I need to explain how spending your whole life in Texas and then moving to Wisconsin is different than spending your whole life in Texas and then moving across the world to England.

Yea the visa issue exists in the other 3 leagues.... but statistically NFL players are arrested the most.

I don't see why they would oppose any specific location, Except maybe London.
 
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