Olympics: NHL homers think team Russia has KHLers for political reasons

[Paxton Fettel]

You just gave an example, thanks!

Kozlov plays for the national coach and has 2 teammates on the Olympic squad.

 

[Hero]

Really one bad call for the roster and its now political?

 

[jekoh]

so the IIHF might have a legal problem if by their own rules they honor NHL suspensions and they decide not to in this instance.

The point was that they only started to honor NHL contract-related suspensions this season and are likely to stop doing so in the event the NHL decides it's not going to Sotchi. So there goes the legal problem.

 

[finchster]

The point was that they only started to honor NHL contract-related suspensions this season and are likely to stop doing so in the event the NHL decides it's not going to Sotchi. So there goes the legal problem.

That is incorrect.

Here is an article from 2000 that pertains to this discussion
http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyOttawaArchive/apr14_nhl.html

Ottawa Senators holdout Alexei Yashin cannot play at the world championships in his native Russia this month because he is under suspension until his contract runs out June 30, an NHL spokesman said Friday.
Yashin, suspended for the season by the Senators after holding out in a contract dispute, had hoped to play if Ottawa was eliminated from the playoffs before the tournament, which begins April 29 in St. Petersburg.

Granted Yashin was suspended for the season but you get the idea,

The International Ice Hockey Federation had asked the NHL to clarify the status of Yashin's suspension before it decided if he could play for Russia.
The federation has an agreement to honour NHL suspensions at its events, such as the world championships.
"We wanted to know his status -- is he suspended? For how long?" said Kimmo Leinonen, spokesman for the Zurich-based federation. "We will honour our agreement with the NHL.
"If there is a suspension, we'll honour it."

The IIHF has an agreement in place to recognize NHL suspensions and here is an example from 2000. If a player is suspended by the NHL he cannot play in international competitions. The caveat to this story is the Russian Ice Hockey Federation took this to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne and won. Something tells me however, the NHL will fight players leaving in the middle of the season more than a player at the end of the season playing in the World Championships. The history of the NHL suggests they do not like player freedom and choice

So let me sum up my argument so people are not confused.

A. I don’t believe a player will break their contract to play in the Olympics it is their way to put pressure on the NHL owners to allow them to play in 2014.

a. I hope the NHL does allow Olympic participation in 2014​

B. If a player breaks their contract they will be suspended by the NHL

C. If a player is suspended by the NHL, the IIHF will recognize that suspension

a. Evidence from situations in 2000 (Yashin) and 2004 (Bertuzzi) illustrate that as well as a quote from an IIHF official that the IIHF has a deal in place to recognize NHL suspensions​

D. A national hockey federation can appeal this decision in Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne and their ability to play will be decided by the courts.

All I am trying to say is a player cannot simply just get up and leave to go play for their country. If they do there will be a legal battle. Whether they can play or not will be up to the courts

 

[finchster]

If there is a lawyer who knows more about this issue, please tell me if I am wrong or not haha

 

[ottsens08]

The reason Russia has obtained #1 IIHF ranking is because decisions ARE NOT political anymore.
Bykov/Zakharkin/Tretiak judge players based on their merits regardless of where they play - and players obviously respect them for it.

If decisions were political, would Russian NHLers be so willing to play for national team nowadays?…even to the extent of threatening to break NHL contracts (Ovechkin, Malkin, etc.)? I think not.


Remember this is NHL media though, so it’s a given that KHL/Russia will be badmouthed to some degree or another.
I think there’s a quota they have to meet every month.

I'm so tired of this ****, the same can be said about the KHL . We all know I much the KHL media and Russians hate the NHL for "stealing" their precious players, so to all my russian friends go watch you're little KHL and stop whining about how North Americans don't know anything about the KHL.

 

[Siberian]

I'm so tired of this ****, the same can be said about the KHL . We all know I much the KHL media and Russians hate the NHL for "stealing" their precious players, so to all my russian friends go watch you're little KHL and stop whining about how North Americans don't know anything about the KHL.

Dude, this is hockey boards, not NHL boards. So if you don't like something I suggest you take your own advice and stop whining about Russians and KHL.

 

[Siberian]

That is incorrect.

Here is an article from 2000 that pertains to this discussion
http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyOttawaArchive/apr14_nhl.html


Granted Yashin was suspended for the season but you get the idea,


The IIHF has an agreement in place to recognize NHL suspensions and here is an example from 2000. If a player is suspended by the NHL he cannot play in international competitions. The caveat to this story is the Russian Ice Hockey Federation took this to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne and won. Something tells me however, the NHL will fight players leaving in the middle of the season more than a player at the end of the season playing in the World Championships. The history of the NHL suggests they do not like player freedom and choice

So let me sum up my argument so people are not confused.

A. I don’t believe a player will break their contract to play in the Olympics it is their way to put pressure on the NHL owners to allow them to play in 2014.

a. I hope the NHL does allow Olympic participation in 2014​

B. If a player breaks their contract they will be suspended by the NHL

C. If a player is suspended by the NHL, the IIHF will recognize that suspension

a. Evidence from situations in 2000 (Yashin) and 2004 (Bertuzzi) illustrate that as well as a quote from an IIHF official that the IIHF has a deal in place to recognize NHL suspensions​

D. A national hockey federation can appeal this decision in Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne and their ability to play will be decided by the courts.

All I am trying to say is a player cannot simply just get up and leave to go play for their country. If they do there will be a legal battle. Whether they can play or not will be up to the courts

Well, Yashin's situation had a lot to do with the different agreement. It was actually between the NHL and European Leagues and the IIHF was the mediator between them . This was the transfer agreement, which no longer applies to Russia and I believe Sweden.

 

[shadow1]

Dude, this is hockey boards, not NHL boards. So if you don't like something I suggest you take your own advice and stop whining about Russians and KHL.

No, no, I'm pretty sure he's right actually.

 

[Siberian]

No, no, I'm pretty sure he's right actually.

Yes, you much as well.

 

[xtr3m]

It is political. They would hate to have a team consisting only of Russians that play in America for Americans.

PS. Chris Simon has been invited to this year's KHL All-Stars game. Yes, Chris Simon.

 

[Siberian]

It is political. They would hate to have a team consisting only of Russians that play in America for Americans.

PS. Chris Simon has been invited to this year's KHL All-Stars game. Yes, Chris Simon.

I think you should be working for the NHL Radio. At least you know some stuff about the KHL and would not embarrass yourself with stupid statements. Oh, you just did, nevermind.

 

[Go Habs Go]

I don't get it. If you don't agree with someone's statement, can't you at least make an argument instead of insulting one person after the other? I have no opinion one way or the other but after reading this thread, I have to side with the NHL homers since all I hear from the guys who defend the KHL is just personal insults. Saying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about is not an argument.

 

[Siberian]

I don't get it. If you don't agree with someone's statement, can't you at least make an argument instead of insulting one person after the other? I have no opinion one way or the other but after reading this thread, I have to side with the NHL homers since all I hear from the guys who defend the KHL is just personal insults. Saying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about is not an argument.

Ok, fair enough. Now, what does having Chris Simon on KHL all-star team of foreigners have anything to do with the subject? Nothing! Factually, it is just flaming, no arguments, no facts, pure flaming.

If you took 2 minutes of your time to read the thread you would understand that what was said on the NHL radio (BTW by NHL PR guy) is absolutely dumb, pointless, uneducated and actually deceiving. You can side with whomever you want but if you are not interested in learning something new, that's fine too.

 

[ottsens08]

Siberian let me ask you a question if I may. If you were NHL commissioner what would you change about the NHL?

 

[jekoh]

The IIHF has an agreement in place to recognize NHL suspensions and here is an example from 2000.

Well Yashin did play in 2000. He scored the first goal again Switzerland for instance, so if anything it's evidence that players suspended by the NHL can play in international competitions.

The same was true for Radulov last year.

All I am trying to say is a player cannot simply just get up and leave to go play for their country. If they do there will be a legal battle. Whether they can play or not will be up to the courts

How likely is it for a possible legal battle to be settled before the Games, though?

 

[jekoh]

It is political. They would hate to have a team consisting only of Russians that play in America for Americans.

Who wouln't hate a team with Artyukhin over Radulov and Kulikov over Nikulin?

 

[daver]

I don't get it. If you don't agree with someone's statement, can't you at least make an argument instead of insulting one person after the other? I have no opinion one way or the other but after reading this thread, I have to side with the NHL homers since all I hear from the guys who defend the KHL is just personal insults. Saying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about is not an argument.

Ok, fair enough. Now, what does having Chris Simon on KHL all-star team of foreigners have anything to do with the subject? Nothing! Factually, it is just flaming, no arguments, no facts, pure flaming.

If you took 2 minutes of your time to read the thread you would understand that what was said on the NHL radio (BTW by NHL PR guy) is absolutely dumb, pointless, uneducated and actually deceiving. You can side with whomever you want but if you are not interested in learning something new, that's fine too.

Nice to see you got the gist of his post.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

Siberian let me ask you a question if I may. If you were NHL commissioner what would you change about the NHL?

either ban all the Canadian players from the league or draft 500 Russians

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

We have to keep in mind that Russia only has around 6% of the worlds hockey players, so naturally it is not going to have the depth of the bigger hockey nations. As for whether or not politics played into the selection, of course it did to some degree. If two players were close and one was in the KHL, there is a 100% chance that they are going to pick him. Politics and sports have always been mixed together in Russia and I can't see that changing any time soon.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

As I've shown in other posts the talent divide between the NHL, KHL and other leagues is around 90%, 5%, 5%. The KHL is getting better, but there is still a considerable gap.

 

[VladNYC*]

As I've shown in other posts the talent divide between the NHL, KHL and other leagues is around 90%, 5%, 5%. The KHL is getting better, but there is still a considerable gap.

First, you haven't shown any thing, in any thread, EVER.

Second, please show me what Russia besides maybe Frolov from the NHL should replace the KHL players. THERE ARE ONLY 25 SOMETHING RUSSIANS IN THE NHL. What don't people understand about that?

 

[finchster]

Well Yashin did play in 2000. He scored the first goal again Switzerland for instance, so if anything it's evidence that players suspended by the NHL can play in international competitions.

I guess you only half read things?

Yashin was suspended by the NHL, the IIHF recognized that suspension and the Russian Ice hockey federation had to take it to a court of appeal and won. I have said all that, but I believe it proves there will be a legal dispute over the player(s). Siberian had pointed out that was under a different transfer agreement, I am trying to figure out if the agreement to recognize suspensions (which is pointed to in that article about Yashin) is in the transfer agreement or is a separate agreement. If it is a separate agreement then nations in the transfer agreement would have nothing to do with the IIHF recognizing suspensions of players.

Ottawa losing in the first round that year may have helped Russia in their dispute because, had Yashin played, he would have eligible because his season was over.

 

[Muscle Bob]

PS. Chris Simon has been invited to this year's KHL All-Stars game. Yes, Chris Simon.

I read on ESPN that Simon threatened to fight Medvedev (not sure who is it, must be some anonymous guy) in case he wasn't invited to the All Star Game.

 

[kmart]

Still.

Oh my God! Some guy on NHL.com has an un-informed opinion on the Russian roster!!! I just have to make sure that HF knows all about it!! What an outrage!

ähm...yes, thats what we do on the internets.

believe it or not, this article is "thread worthy" and im glad he posted, i cant say i like it but its entertaining at least. i see no reason to complain about the thread starter.