Prospect Info: NHL 2017 Entry Draft: Year of the Homegrown Talent

[ps241]

BPA notwithstanding I salivate at the thought of getting a blue chip top pairing defender. I think next season is going to have a bumper defensive crop with decent size and skill and a game breaker in Liljegren at the top.

 

[BB88]

Now with Laine I have to hope one of the Finn LD's get picked by the Jets, Vaakainen would be a beautiful pick.

 

[ps241]

Now with Laine I have to hope one of the Finn LD's get picked by the Jets, Vaakainen would be a beautiful pick.

He would be unreal for us I love his game.

 

[BB88]

He would be unreal for us I love his game.

The great thing with Vaakainen is that he's going already for his 2nd year in Liiga and can be sent to AHL after his draft, and could be the answer for that LD question.

Looking at few articles about him,
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8510925
Comments from his coach,

-He missed the entire offseason but was still able to play against men at 16y. He's expected to develop into offensive puck mover but last year defensive play was his strenght in Liiga.
Averaged 16:21 per game.

-Hates losing, high compete level,
- extremely quick learner, doesn't make the same mistake twice,
-When TPS U20y(with Rantanen) was playing in the finals against Blues none of the Blues D-players could handle Rantanen on 1on1 plays.
But Vaakanainen few years younger than the rest was the only one who could somewhat keep up with him.
-Without injury could have made the U-18 team last year already.


He signed with Jyp for next year aiming for key role on the blueline.

 

[Daximus]

BPA notwithstanding I salivate at the thought of getting a blue chip top pairing defender. I think next season is going to have a bumper defensive crop with decent size and skill and a game breaker in Liljegren at the top.

Now with Laine I have to hope one of the Finn LD's get picked by the Jets, Vaakainen would be a beautiful pick.

In order to snag Liljegren we would need some lottery luck again, which I think is unlikely. Vaakainen is definitely more attainable. I really have my eye on Foote though. We would likely need to miss playoffs to get a crack at him. He's probably going to go in the top 15 somewhere but man can that kid play. Maybe I'm biased because I'm a Rockets fan but I'm expecting big things from him.

 

[Deif]

The great thing with Vaakainen is that he's going already for his 2nd year in Liiga and can be sent to AHL after his draft, and could be the answer for that LD question.

Looking at few articles about him,
http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8510925
Comments from his coach,

-He missed the entire offseason but was still able to play against men at 16y. He's expected to develop into offensive puck mover but last year defensive play was his strenght in Liiga.
Averaged 16:21 per game.

-Hates losing, high compete level,
- extremely quick learner, doesn't make the same mistake twice,
-When TPS U20y(with Rantanen) was playing in the finals against Blues none of the Blues D-players could handle Rantanen on 1on1 plays.
But Vaakanainen few years younger than the rest was the only one who could somewhat keep up with him.
-Without injury could have made the U-18 team last year already.


He signed with Jyp for next year aiming for key role on the blueline.

What are his flaws or things he needs to work on?

 

[BB88]

What are his flaws or things he needs to work on?

Its tough to say when he was 16-17y playing against men.

He needs a healthy offseason, time to just train and gain strenght, I want to see him show his offensive skills next year and be a high point producer in top level games, U18+WJC especially, and become a top4 player for Jyp.

 

[howkie]

Think Lias Andersson went back to Frölunda this year. So Frölunda have 2 potential first round picks this year. I trust that Rönnberg develops player better then HV

 

[Maukkis]

Now with Laine I have to hope one of the Finn LD's get picked by the Jets, VaakaNAinen would be a beautiful pick.

My thoughts exactly. Välimäki would be a good one as well.

Luckily there's a good amount of defensemen available next year. One of those Finns could really do us good.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Does Button undervalue D in his list?

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-nolan-patrick-stands-above-the-rest-1.566071

2 Liljegren
17 Belize
18 Heiskanen
20 Foote
21 Hague
22 Jokiharu
28 Phillips

Players to watch

Fleury
Vaakanainen
Walfridsson

 

[BB88]

Miro Heiskanen(LD), name to follow.
I haven't watched him have to admit but I guess I have to.
Apparently amazing skater.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=250075

Played tonight 23mins for HIFK, team that lost to Tappara in last years finals, that's pretty damm impressive.

 

[Hobble]

Time to tank for the hometown kid!!

 

[Daximus]

Does Button undervalue D in his list?

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-nolan-patrick-stands-above-the-rest-1.566071

2 Liljegren
17 Belize
18 Heiskanen
20 Foote
21 Hague
22 Jokiharu
28 Phillips

Players to watch

Fleury
Vaakanainen
Walfridsson

I've never really liked Button rankings, or Button for that matter.

My top 30 D to watch.

1. Tim Liljegren – RD – 6'0 – 190 - Rogle, SHL
2. Cal Foote – RD – 6'3 – 195 - Kelowna, WHL
3. Urho Vaakanainen – LD – 6'1 – 187 - JYP, Liiga
4. Nick Hague – LD – 6'6 – 207 - Mississauga, OHL
5. Juuso Valimaki – LD – 6'2 – 201 - Tri-City, WHL
6. Cale Fleury - RD - 6'1 - 190 - Kootenay, WHL
7. Erik Brannstrom – LD – 5'10 – 172 - HV71, SHL
8. Artyom Minulin - RD - 6'2 - 198 - Swift Current, WHL
9. Robin Salo – LD – 6'1 – 187 - Sport, Liiga
10. Max Gildon – LD – 6'2 – 179 - USNT, USDP
11. Ian Blackar - LD - 6'3 - 181 - London, OHL
12. Cale Makar - RD - 5'10 - 174 - Brooks, AJHL
13. Luke Martin - RD - 6'2 - 201 - USNT, USDP
14. Jake Paquette - LD - 6'2 - 194 - Kingston, OHL
15. David Farrance - LD - 5'10 - 192 - USNT, USDP
16. Miro Heiskanen - LD - 5'10 - 154 - HIFK, Liiga
17. Josh Maniscalco -RD - 6'0 - 207 - USNT, USDP
18. Reilly Walsh - RD - 6'0 - 176 - Chicago, USHL
19. Dmitri Samorukov - LD - 6'0 - 159 - Guelph, OHL?
20. Matteo Pietroniro - LD - 6'1 - 181 - Baie-Comeau, QMJHL
21. Scott Walford - LD - 6'1 - 190 - Victoria, WHL
22. Josh Brook - RD - 6'0 - 183 - Moose Jaw, WHL
23. Walter Flower - RD - 6'1 - 163 - Halifax, QMJHL
24. Griffin Mendel - LD - 6'3 - 205 - Penticton, BCHL
25. Sean Durzi - RD - 5'10 - 154 - Owen Sound, OHL
26. Jocktan Chainey - LD - 6'1 - 194 - Halifax, QMJHL
27. Adam Tilander - RD - 6'0 - 190 - Skellefteå AIK, SHL
28. Henri Jokiharju - RD - 5'11 - 165 - Portland, WHL
29. Julian Kislin - RD - 6'2 - 170 - Youngstown, USHL?
30. Simon Le Coultre - LD - 5'11 - 161 - Moncton, QMJHL

 

[garret9]

Is Urho playing on the same pair as Sami?


EDIT:
According to a scout, no.
Just surprising as they both have way higher Corsi% than the rest of the team's defenders (small sample alert).

 

[Aavco Cup]

I like Button's lists because it is likely closest to what an NHL team list would look like. I don't necessarily value it over other lists but I like to see what he thinks.

@Daximus - how many of those D would you put in the top 10 overall? Top31? That's why I asked if he was undervaluing D.

 

[buggs]

I've never really liked Button rankings, or Button for that matter.

My top 30 D to watch.


4. Nick Hague – LD – 6'6 – 207 - Mississauga, OHL

Discussion over. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzze.

 

[Daximus]

I like Button's lists because it is likely closest to what an NHL team list would look like. I don't necessarily value it over other lists but I like to see what he thinks.

@Daximus - how many of those D would you put in the top 10 overall? Top31? That's why I asked if he was undervaluing D.

I just think Button really overvalues International Tournaments. Hlinka and WJC's really affect his rankings. You have to take the full season into account.

Discussion over. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzze.

Interestingly enough Hague put up 14 goals last season as a 16-17 year year old. Which is almost as many total points Stanley put up as as an 18 year old. IMO Hague is everything we want Stanley to be.
Kid has an absolute Cannon of a shot and can actually skate.

 

[Coach G]

Thanks so much for that, Daximus. All of you who are able to see and evaluate our junior and NCAA prospects as well as the draft-eligible ones are my favourite humans. Keep up the good work!

 

[JetsFan815]

Is Urho playing on the same pair as Sami?


EDIT:
According to a scout, no.
Just surprising as they both have way higher Corsi% than the rest of the team's defenders (small sample alert).

Niku already with a secondary assist in the game going on right now

Edit: Can confirm, watching the game right now. Niku playing with someone wearing #43. Urho playing with #7

 

[Rheged]

I've never really liked Button rankings, or Button for that matter.

My top 30 D to watch.

1. Tim Liljegren – RD – 6'0 – 190 - Rogle, SHL
2. Cal Foote – RD – 6'3 – 195 - Kelowna, WHL
3. Urho Vaakanainen – LD – 6'1 – 187 - JYP, Liiga
4. Nick Hague – LD – 6'6 – 207 - Mississauga, OHL
5. Juuso Valimaki – LD – 6'2 – 201 - Tri-City, WHL
6. Cale Fleury - RD - 6'1 - 190 - Kootenay, WHL
7. Erik Brannstrom – LD – 5'10 – 172 - HV71, SHL
8. Artyom Minulin - RD - 6'2 - 198 - Swift Current, WHL
9. Robin Salo – LD – 6'1 – 187 - Sport, Liiga
10. Max Gildon – LD – 6'2 – 179 - USNT, USDP
11. Ian Blackar - LD - 6'3 - 181 - London, OHL
12. Cale Makar - RD - 5'10 - 174 - Brooks, AJHL
13. Luke Martin - RD - 6'2 - 201 - USNT, USDP
14. Jake Paquette - LD - 6'2 - 194 - Kingston, OHL
15. David Farrance - LD - 5'10 - 192 - USNT, USDP
16. Miro Heiskanen - LD - 5'10 - 154 - HIFK, Liiga
17. Josh Maniscalco -RD - 6'0 - 207 - USNT, USDP
18. Reilly Walsh - RD - 6'0 - 176 - Chicago, USHL
19. Dmitri Samorukov - LD - 6'0 - 159 - Guelph, OHL?
20. Matteo Pietroniro - LD - 6'1 - 181 - Baie-Comeau, QMJHL
21. Scott Walford - LD - 6'1 - 190 - Victoria, WHL
22. Josh Brook - RD - 6'0 - 183 - Moose Jaw, WHL
23. Walter Flower - RD - 6'1 - 163 - Halifax, QMJHL
24. Griffin Mendel - LD - 6'3 - 205 - Penticton, BCHL
25. Sean Durzi - RD - 5'10 - 154 - Owen Sound, OHL
26. Jocktan Chainey - LD - 6'1 - 194 - Halifax, QMJHL
27. Adam Tilander - RD - 6'0 - 190 - Skellefteå AIK, SHL
28. Henri Jokiharju - RD - 5'11 - 165 - Portland, WHL
29. Julian Kislin - RD - 6'2 - 170 - Youngstown, USHL?
30. Simon Le Coultre - LD - 5'11 - 161 - Moncton, QMJHL

This guys gonna be a riser, that Halifax team is gonna be a lot of fun this season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Discussion over. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzze.

In his D-1 year he outproduced Stanley in his D year. That should be a pretty significant difference (Stanley is only 6 mos older though). Strange how he is able to manage his oversized body but adapting to his own is an excuse for Stanley. Size by itself means nothing. I want a good player regardless of size. If a player is 5'8 and scores 7 on a scale of 1-10 and another player is 6'8 and scores a 7 on the same scale then they are both 7's and the size is irrelevant. That's why you don't draft for size - or at least shouldn't.

 

[garret9]

In his D-1 year he outproduced Stanley in his D year. That should be a pretty significant difference (Stanley is only 6 mos older though). Strange how he is able to manage his oversized body but adapting to his own is an excuse for Stanley. Size by itself means nothing. I want a good player regardless of size. If a player is 5'8 and scores 7 on a scale of 1-10 and another player is 6'8 and scores a 7 on the same scale then they are both 7's and the size is irrelevant. That's why you don't draft for size - or at least shouldn't.

Size is an input. IE: Size is in part why they got the results that they did, so therefor the smaller player with similar ability/results has more things elsewhere making up for that size.

That said, there is a bit of projection when it comes to size, with ceiling and all, but ya... it's HIGHLY overvalued and rated by NHL teams.

 

[buggs]

In his D-1 year he outproduced Stanley in his D year. That should be a pretty significant difference (Stanley is only 6 mos older though). Strange how he is able to manage his oversized body but adapting to his own is an excuse for Stanley. Size by itself means nothing. I want a good player regardless of size. If a player is 5'8 and scores 7 on a scale of 1-10 and another player is 6'8 and scores a 7 on the same scale then they are both 7's and the size is irrelevant. That's why you don't draft for size - or at least shouldn't.

You saw this right -->

I'm glad it's generating discussion about the player (Hague) and his abilities but let's not overlook I was just kidding as to why to draft him. If he's a good hockey player and looks to be successful at whatever position in the draft the Jets might want to look at him then so be it, but drafting on size alone?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You saw this right -->

I'm glad it's generating discussion about the player (Hague) and his abilities but let's not overlook I was just kidding as to why to draft him. If he's a good hockey player and looks to be successful at whatever position in the draft the Jets might want to look at him then so be it, but drafting on size alone?

Yah but I missed the . after over. Just chalk it up to discussion, not debate.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Size is an input. IE: Size is in part why they got the results that they did, so therefor the smaller player with similar ability/results has more things elsewhere making up for that size.

That said, there is a bit of projection when it comes to size, with ceiling and all, but ya... it's HIGHLY overvalued and rated by NHL teams.

Size is an input to their respective achievements but not into their ratings. That is, their ratings are based on their performance. Their size either helped or hindered their performances as the case may be but their performances are what they are.

OTOH if a player produces at level x and then gains 20 lbs of well distributed muscle or grows an inch, or both he becomes x+y and *probably* better than the other player who was x.

If we could be given all the data on my original 2 players except any knowledge of their sizes would it make any difference which one we drafted? My own bias is such that I would prefer a guy who was 6'2 over either of those extremes, again assuming that all else was equal. I like players big enough that it never needs to be an issue and I prefer a balanced set of skills and abilities over a player who simply overpowers his opposition. But if our data is painting an accurate picture then the size of the equally performing players shouldn't matter. Performance is performance.