News Article: News & Notes XXXVI: Leadup to the Deadline

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Any/body on D in the farm system that you could see stepping up next year

Lajoie is looking pretty good in Chicago. Lajoie was given 56 games in Ottawa then not much else the season after so, take that as you will.

We have Sellgren and Honka. Sellgren is basically Ryan. Honka is basically the RS version of Bean. We dont have a Skjei type shutdown like guy.

 

[NotOpie]

That's a reasonable estimate. The LeBrun article said Camp Dougie and Dundell couldn't agree on comps...guessing there's more than a $1M/year delta between offer and ask. The comps I'm thinking of would put it close to a $2M gap.

If RF rings Dougie and says, hows about some Petro money...and Dougie's agent goes back to Dundell with the offer, what is their move?

I thought I heard a rumor that the team was using Torey Krug as their comp. Don't know who Dougie's team was using, but if they're trying to use Doughty or Karlsson, they're never going to get together. Even Brent Burns only makes $8 million. In the end, they're probably looking at the Pietrangelo deal as their main starting point.

 

[spockBokk]

Lajoie is looking pretty good in Chicago. Lajoie was given 56 games in Ottawa then not much else the season after so, take that as you will.

We have Sellgren and Honka. Sellgren is basically Ryan. Honka is basically the RS version of Bean. We dont have a Skjei type shutdown like guy.

I’d say Keane is in this mix as well. He’s probably more NHL ready than Honka. If they lose Hamilton and don’t re-sign Hakanpaa, I’d think Keane is a shoe-in for 3rd pair duties.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

For those with time...

Tro starts at 1:17:05

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I’d say Keane is in this mix as well. He’s probably more NHL ready than Honka. If they lose Hamilton and don’t re-sign Hakanpaa, I’d think Keane is a shoe-in for 3rd pair duties.

yep good call. missed Keane.

 

[NotOpie]

We can ask @Lempo this....is Honka's contract up or would a transfer fee apply?

Personally, I think they view Honka as a high end offensive threat, but more from a distributor standpoint.

 

[spockBokk]

yep good call. missed Keane.

They gave Keane an extended Taxi Sqaud look a few weeks ago. I wonder if that was to judge whether or not to actually trade for a 3rd pair RD based on how they evaluated Keane? Probably not, but a thought,

I think Honka sticks around Liiga one more year and Keane and Sellgren are in the 6-7D mix next year. And perhaps Kaski gives one more go in North America.

 

[To Be Determined]

If RF rings Dougie and says, hows about some Petro money...and Dougie's agent goes back to Dundell with the offer, what is their move?

"the 'singles' soundtrack rocks. have a good time and thanks for everything."

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I think it'll suck, but I think this team can get by without Hamilton if the need be.

 

[spockBokk]

Do you think STL and Boston have regretted their decisions re: Pietrangelo and Krug?

Well, in part, they lost Pietrangelo because they chose to hedge their bet on re-signing him by trading for Faulk as insurance. There was no cap room to give Pietrangelo what he wanted. I see the Canes looking at Manson and Walker from LA as them doing some of the same. Looking for a potential top 4 RD to off set losing Hamilton.

Hamilton will probably walk this off-season and will still perform like a top D with his new team. For the Canes, I think they’ll miss him and there’s no immediate replacement. How they’ll look back at it depends on what they do in the offseason to plug the hole and upgrade elsewhere. They still have the makings of a deep, very good team even without Hamilton.

I wouldn’t mind being wrong at all in this and would love to see Hamilton re-signed.

 

[Helsinki Hurricanes]

Well, in part, they lost Pietrangelo because they chose to hedge their bet on re-signing him by trading for Faulk as insurance. There was no cap room to give Pietrangelo what he wanted. I see the Canes looking at Manson and Walker from LA as them doing some of the same. Looking for a potential top 4 RD to off set losing Hamilton.

Hamilton will probably walk this off-season and will still perform like a top D with his new team. For the Canes, I think they’ll miss him and there’s no immediate replacement. How they’ll look back at it depends on what they do in the offseason to plug the hole and upgrade elsewhere. They still have the makings of a deep, very good team even without Hamilton.

I wouldn’t mind being wrong at all in this and would love to see Hamilton re-signed.

In my experience star playrs generally want the max term in their main contracts. In a way player could get more by taking one year mercenary contracts but that would be extremely risky. Generally speaking when you sign a star player to 8-year contract usually AAV is fine but everybody knows last contract years will be ltred, bought out, cap dumped etc.

Offering 7 or 8 year deal would mean low AAV for first 2-3 years, ok for next couple and brutal for last few. In a way it's a way to get great player for under market rate for a while but you end up paying for that in the twilight years of the player. You are essentially borrowing from the future.

If Canes see their window as next 2-3 years it makes all the sense in the world to sign Dougie for 7 or 8 years. But it is also possible they see potential for making noise for the next 8 years by outsmarting other teams by drafting and trading well, good UFA deals etc. In this latter case you let Dougie leave unless you can get him to sign for fair value.

It's a matter of philosophy also. If you want to get the cup, it's likely you need to go all in when the window is open. But if you want to make most money (playoff appearances) it makes sense to be like Preds or Minnesota prefer multiple playoff appearances to one deep run.

 

[Helsinki Hurricanes]

We can ask @Lempo this....is Honka's contract up or would a transfer fee apply?

Personally, I think they view Honka as a high end offensive threat, but more from a distributor standpoint.

Very very quick googling reveals he's signed until 2022 spring. Not sure if there are options for either side etc. Transfer agreements and others play a part too of course.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think it'll suck, but I think this team can get by without Hamilton if the need be.

I agree, but I think it'll suck a lot more than we would be comfortable with.

 

[NotOpie]

Offensively, what Hamilton brings is both a great shot and very good passing instincts. His improving defense makes him even more valuable. Whether or not that value is worth the extra $$$ is really about what other alternatives exist.

 

[The Stranger]

If Dougie goes UFA and HCanes protect Slavin, Pesce, and Bean...does RF go "cool, I'll take Skjei in ED...then I'll make it rain on Dougie in FA period". Not too shabby top pairing for an expansion team.

4.5 - Over/Under - total number of players, coaching staff, scouts, and broadcast personnel RF poaches from Canes before start next season.

We already know Forslund, Kron, and ED gets to 3...then you have possibilities like RBA, Tripp, and pending UFAs.

Don't mean to be a chicken little here...and realize I should just be enjoying the here and now with Canes playing well...but I am intrigued with how the off-season will play out.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Dougie goes UFA and HCanes protect Slavin, Pesce, and Bean...does RF go "cool, I'll take Skjei in ED...then I'll make it rain on Dougie in FA period". Not too shabby top pairing for an expansion team.

4.5 - Over/Under - total number of players, coaching staff, scouts, and broadcast personnel RF poaches from Canes before start next season.

We already know Forslund, Kron, and ED gets to 3...then you have possibilities like RBA, Tripp, and pending UFAs.

Don't mean to be a chicken little here...and realize I should just be enjoying the here and now with Canes playing well...but I am intrigued with how the off-season will play out.

Over. They already have Forslund, Kron, Ricky Olczyk, Mike Dawson, and Tony MacDonald.

Setting Dougie aside for a moment, they'll get an expansion draft guy and won't be surprised if they sign a guy like McGinn as a UFA and maybe even one of our goalies, depending on what Carolina does. Edit: and if the Canes decide Foegele isn't worth his ask, I'm sure Francis will jump on that.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Well, in part, they lost Pietrangelo because they chose to hedge their bet on re-signing him by trading for Faulk as insurance. There was no cap room to give Pietrangelo what he wanted.

Are you sure? I remember hearing from Blues fans that Armstrong refused to give Pietrangelo a full NMC- which Vegas did give him, and that was the reason Pietro moved on.

 

[NotOpie]

Over. They already have Forslund, Kron, Ricky Olczyk, Mike Dawson, and Tony MacDonald.

Setting Dougie aside for a moment, they'll get an expansion draft guy and won't be surprised if they sign a guy like McGinn as a UFA and maybe even one of our goalies, depending on what Carolina does.

There's got to be a Jim Rutherford hire incoming.

 

[The Stranger]

Over. They already have Forslund, Kron, Ricky Olczyk, Mike Dawson, and Tony MacDonald.

Setting Dougie aside for a moment, they'll get an expansion draft guy and won't be surprised if they sign a guy like McGinn as a UFA and maybe even one of our goalies, depending on what Carolina does. Edit: and if the Canes decide Foegele isn't worth his ask, I'm sure Francis will jump on that.

Good info. OK, let me adjust the Over/under accordingly. 7.5

 

[bleedgreen]

Our incoming defensive guys don’t look like more than third pair at best at this point. Not saying they can’t be better, but Honka is still a bit of a long shot to be an every day player. Sellgren and Keane could be third pair. Nikishin is a ways off.

Pay Dougie his money and limit the erosion of the defense this summer, or we can be a pretty ordinary team next year. Pay Francis the first and whatever outside of Jarvis to keep the D we want. Pay him that much and we can maybe get him to take a forward instead. Our defense is our strength and losing two of the top six kicks that concept in the balls.

There’s no Dougie replacement out there. Not for what he brings. We can replace DeHaan level, maybe.

 

[Lempo]

We can ask @Lempo this....is Honka's contract up or would a transfer fee apply?

Very very quick googling reveals he's signed until 2022 spring. Not sure if there are options for either side etc. Transfer agreements and others play a part too of course.

Yes, in February 2020 he was signed for two more years. So, 2020-21 and 2021-22. He's under Carolina's exclusive negotiation right until June 1st, 2023, so if you want him fee free, summer 2022 is a likely time for that.

If he was signed to a NHL ELC now, the NHL ELC would supersede the JYP contract, and the transfer agreement including the transfer fee would apply. But, he's not ready, and also not Slide Eligible (he has turned 20).

Though I must confess, after seeing the NHL/CHL agreement, I'm not sure if it is the Canes organization or the NHL who actually is in hook for paying the transfer fee. In CHL's case I believe it is NHL who pays it.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

You guys are way too fearful of Seattle. Unless they see themselves as cup contenders right away (even Vegas at the time didn't foresee that), do you really think that they're going to give a big enough contract to successfully pry both Skjei and Dougie from Carolina? My personal guess is that Francis will get Skjei. That's one defenseman. He's been good this year, but with Bean performing reasonably well as far as rookies go, I'm not terribly concerned that the depth can't cushion the blow. I think Dougie and Hakanpaa are both likely to re-sign.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You guys are way too fearful of Seattle. Unless they see themselves as cup contenders right away (even Vegas at the time didn't foresee that), do you really think that they're going to give a big enough contract to successfully pry both Skjei and Dougie from Carolina?

You’re confusing people predicting who they may try to poach with “fear”

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Good info. OK, let me adjust the Over/under accordingly. 7.5

Over.

5 already, 1ED guy, 1 UFA, and one “other”

 

[cptjeff]

You guys are way too fearful of Seattle. Unless they see themselves as cup contenders right away (even Vegas at the time didn't foresee that), do you really think that they're going to give a big enough contract to successfully pry both Skjei and Dougie from Carolina? My personal guess is that Francis will get Skjei. That's one defenseman. He's been good this year, but with Bean performing reasonably well as far as rookies go, I'm not terribly concerned that the depth can't cushion the blow. I think Dougie and Hakanpaa are both likely to re-sign.

As a related reminder: If Seattle signs a UFA during their exclusive negotiation period, that counts as their expansion draft selection from that team. If they manage to sign Hamilton, they don't get to pick anybody else from our roster.