Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Boston Bruins - December 16

Three stars at Boston - December 16


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egelband

Registered User
Sep 6, 2008
15,910
14,504
JT continues to be one of my favorite players if not my favorite. He plays the game how I would like if I was his teammate or coach. He skates hard. He hits. He almost always looks for open teammates. He is one of the best passers on our team. He sticks up for his teammates. Plus at the end of the season he will show up with 18-22 goals.
Yes. Agreed. And guys like Miller and Kreider draw the opponents most defensive attention. So it sometimes ‘feels’ like they disappear for stretches. But the team really goes as far as these guys go so I want them to get to that next level. I think they will. Just not quite there yet. Hopefully it happens this year.
 
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PuckLuck3043

Stairway To Heaven
Nov 15, 2017
9,828
14,716
Hudson Valley
Not me. I don't expect Picassos every game. I'm far from some of the resident curmudgeons. I'm not a stat head, and my eyes tell me we don't have the puck much and we're in our own end much more these days.

I didn't mean you, sorry. I just think we as fans expect this team to always play perfectly and disregard the realities of injuries, fatigue, and the fact that the other teams get paid also.
 
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Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,523
112,987
NYC
Is that 5v5 or including his PK minutes? if included, I don't see how that stat is relevant. Why would he be on the PK in the 1st place if he was so bad defensively.......what about his linemates......don't they share that similar stat? Defensemen? I dunno, seems unfair.

It's even strength. Some of his teammates also had lousy numbers but somehow, nobody was this bad.

Either way, it's one game.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,523
112,987
NYC
Unless you think it's because of the GA part of the equation I think it's a coincidence. He doesn't add anything offensively, which is a large part of GF% obviously.

A coincidence doesn't happen for almost half the season when the numbers are that big.
 

trilobyte

Regulated User
Dec 9, 2008
25,478
3,630
Calgary, Alberta
Larry, I totally understood Zooks slashing that guy after taking a late crosscheck when the puck was already gone. I can't bash our team for being soft and then complain when one of our guys stands up for himself. The ref should have called the crosscheck if he was going to call the slash in my opinion.
I am completely good with Zuccs. I defend him on that. The scrum he was in was a free for all with plenty of transgressions occurring. What made the ref pick Mats as the guy to go? Well, he did commit a slash, but once again there were crosschecks galore that were not called in that particular melee. My mantra is mostly to just accept it and not get all wound up about the unfairness of a ref missing the other team's stuff. Some times, the Rangers are the "other team" not getting called.
As you say, you want players emotionally involved. Mats was into the battle. It is all good. Win or lose, I want that level of involvement to exist. That is hockey.
I wasn't too wild about DD's decision to try to trick the refs, when he held the stick. Yes I realize that it could have been a hooking call on the Bruin, but you could also see that the stick was not truly impeding DD. Technically yes, it could have been hooking. I just thought DD was too clever by half there and it backfired. No big deal, other than I thought he made a stupid choice with the stick hold. That happens too. That too is hockey.
 

Fitzy

Very Stable Genius
Jan 29, 2009
35,040
21,741
Holden having really good team-relative analytics.

He was ok last year and has been very good this year. I don't get where all the vitriol comes from.

Rozsival effect, perhaps.

I don't 100% agree with the numbers, but I certainly think he's been better than Smith and Kamfer overall, comparable with Staal, and certainly is better than Shattenkirk in the defensive zone.

At least McDonagh doesn't have to cover half again his side of the ice like he did for Girardi.

Smith is the guy people should be pissed about right now.

I'd rather have Holden and Kampfer on the third pairing for a combined 2 million than Smith and Staal for a combined 10 million.
 
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DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
22,732
20,558
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Rozsival effect, perhaps.

I don't 100% agree with the numbers, but I certainly think he's been better than Smith and Kamfer overall, comparable with Staal, and certainly is better than Shattenkirk in the defensive zone.

At least McDonagh doesn't have to cover half again his side of the ice like he did for Girardi.

Smith is the guy people should be pissed about right now.

I'd rather have Holden and Kampfer on the third pairing for a combined 2 million than Smith and Staal for a combined 10 million.
Make it Holden and ADA/Pionk, but I think most people would agree.
 

bl02

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
32,237
22,266
Rozsival effect, perhaps.

I don't 100% agree with the numbers, but I certainly think he's been better than Smith and Kamfer overall, comparable with Staal, and certainly is better than Shattenkirk in the defensive zone.

At least McDonagh doesn't have to cover half again his side of the ice like he did for Girardi.

Smith is the guy people should be pissed about right now.

I'd rather have Holden and Kampfer on the third pairing for a combined 2 million than Smith and Staal for a combined 10 million.
I'm still holding out hope that we get the playoff 2017 Smith. He was a beast. Against the Canadiens he played nasty and effective in all three zones. Hopefully we get into the playoffs and he can repeat that performance. We've seen glimpses of that lately but definitely not consistent. I'm sure not being with Skjei doesn't help
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,627
27,307
New Jersey
Holden having really good team-relative analytics.

He was ok last year and has been very good this year. I don't get where all the vitriol comes from.
I like Holden, I think he quietly plays a steady game. Thing is, every so often he'll lose a game by himself. :laugh:

In general I think he's fine, though. Especially considering he's essentially used as a shutdown #2 defender. No idea what his fancy stats are. Does look like a ton of shots against are coming from the left side of the ice when he is out though.

I'm a fan of this D group, although I think in the past I've overstated how important the quality of the group is relative to the systems in place. I mean this team hardly even plays defense, it makes me curious just how good our D group would need to be to play very effectively in the same exact system.

Not just the Rangers either...the Dallas Stars have completely reversed their defensive efficiency with, essentially, the same roster as last season. Just a coaching change...

QmxT8ON.png
ya7LrSY.png



Meanwhile the Rangers clearly upgraded their defense, yet are even worse defensively than last year...
 
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DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
22,732
20,558
PA from SI
I like Holden, I think he quietly plays a steady game. Thing is, every so often he'll lose a game by himself. :laugh:

In general I think he's fine, though. Especially considering he's essentially used as a shutdown #2 defender. No idea what his fancy stats are. Does look like a ton of shots against are coming from the left side of the ice when he is out though.

I'm a fan of this D group, although I think in the past I've overstated how important the quality of the group is relative to the systems in place. I mean this team hardly even plays defense, it makes me curious just how good our D group would need to be to play very effectively in the same exact system.

Not just the Rangers either...the Dallas Stars have completely reversed their defensive efficiency with, essentially, the same roster as last season. Just a coaching change...

QmxT8ON.png
ya7LrSY.png



Meanwhile the Rangers clearly upgraded their defense, yet are even worse defensively than last year...
I think part of the Rangers problem is having 2 pairings that are L-L. Especially in this system where you have to make quick decisions with the puck, that extra split second it takes to corral the puck can be so important. It also makes it alot harder to keep the puck in along the walls in the ozone.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,627
27,307
New Jersey
I think part of the Rangers problem is having 2 pairings that are L-L. Especially in this system where you have to make quick decisions with the puck, that extra split second it takes to corral the puck can be so important. It also makes it alot harder to keep the puck in along the walls in the ozone.
Good point, but to what extent? A lot of this shit defense is because of forwards blowing coverage. I really think it's like 90% the system.

The real question to me is: how much offense would these team be sacrificing to play a different defensive system? I have no doubt that if the right coach was available, that this roster could be at least average defensively. After the truly messy performances over the last 1-2 weeks, this team has drifted into Arizona territory:

shotPlot-25-5v5-cor.png
 
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DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
22,732
20,558
PA from SI
Good point, but to what extent? A lot of this **** defense is because of forwards blowing coverage. I really think it's like 90% the system.

The real question to me is: how much offense would these team be sacrificing to play a different defensive system? I have no doubt that if the right coach was available, that this roster could be at least average defensively. After the truly messy performances over the last 1-2 weeks, this team has drifted into Arizona territory:

shotPlot-25-5v5-cor.png
I think it's pretty important, but it's definitely not the only thing. I'm not sure how much offense the Rangers would sacrifice changing the system, or if it would even help, but it would be interesting to see.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,627
27,307
New Jersey
I think it's pretty important, but it's definitely not the only thing. I'm not sure how much offense the Rangers would sacrifice changing the system, or if it would even help, but it would be interesting to see.
I know the man-to-man system is supposed to spring the offense, but how much is it actually doing that when the Rangers can't execute it well? lol
 

DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
22,732
20,558
PA from SI
I know the man-to-man system is supposed to spring the offense, but how much is it actually doing that when the Rangers can't execute it well? lol
I think you could argue they are executing the system. They generate extremely good scoring chances, while relying on their goalies to keep the puck out of the net instead of playing solid defense. Problem is, when you play really good teams in the playoffs and you don't score on your opportunities, you lose.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,523
112,987
NYC
I like Holden, I think he quietly plays a steady game. Thing is, every so often he'll lose a game by himself. :laugh:

In general I think he's fine, though. Especially considering he's essentially used as a shutdown #2 defender. No idea what his fancy stats are. Does look like a ton of shots against are coming from the left side of the ice when he is out though.

I'm a fan of this D group, although I think in the past I've overstated how important the quality of the group is relative to the systems in place. I mean this team hardly even plays defense, it makes me curious just how good our D group would need to be to play very effectively in the same exact system.

Not just the Rangers either...the Dallas Stars have completely reversed their defensive efficiency with, essentially, the same roster as last season. Just a coaching change...

QmxT8ON.png
ya7LrSY.png



Meanwhile the Rangers clearly upgraded their defense, yet are even worse defensively than last year...

Oh and BTW, the coach responsible for the chart on the left? On our bench coaching our defense.
 
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aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,627
27,307
New Jersey
I think you could argue they are executing the system. They generate extremely good scoring chances, while relying on their goalies to keep the puck out of the net instead of playing solid defense. Problem is, when you play really good teams in the playoffs and you don't score on your opportunities, you lose.
Offensively they absolutely are. If, as a whole, they are playing AV's system perfectly, then this is literally an EA Sports strategy lol.
 
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