GDT: New Jersey Devils @ Chicago Blackhawks - 7:00pm EST / 6:00pm CT

[Toews2Bickell]

Some CHL teams need these players just so their team can survive, not all of them are the London Knights, where they are actually making money. Most of the teams lose money every year.

I don't think they should be doing something to get out of the agreement necessarily, but maybe an agreement to help support those organizations financially so they can continue to have a development league that can thrive for the players that aren't cut out for the AHL. Then those CHL teams don't have to worry about not having borderline NHLers playing in the CHL to keep attracting their fans.

if its about money and support then NHL teams should be allowed to just financially compensate them for the player being removed from the league, it would be a drop in the bucket for NHL teams, good for the players and the CHL team would be paid for the loss

 

[TLEH]

I mean I realize the CHL itself is a league. Like its a developmental league for the NHL, but they're trying to survive too. They operate sort of independent of the NHL where they don't necessarily care about the NHL.

At the end of the day though, its about the players and forcing a guy to play in the CHL instead of AHL is sometimes bad for growth of the player and to me that goes against the sort of "point" of the CHL to begin with.

Sure allowing the Hawk to pay Seattle 200k to allow Korchinski to play in the AHL is maybe a solution but not sure how that would go.

Seems like more and more players are going NCAA route and I guarantee this is a conversation about why. BCHL -->NCAA as well as USHL ---> NCAA.

Macklin, Fantilli.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Didn't get a chance to watch last night, but I see a tough one for Bedard. That's gonna happen, but still hate to see it. Really hoping he can have a night where he gets 3+ points.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

What does the Canadian thing mean? Im Canadian what does that have to do with player eval?

KK is not a top 4 NHL D, you have to be competent on defense to do that. What does he lose from going back to junior? f***ing Cale Makar spent 2 years developing. We talk about not rushing the rebuild all the time yet now we're deciding to burn a year of ELC on a defenseman who's not remotely ready defensively

Vlasic's a +6 on this dumpster fire defensive team, thats not a coincidence and neither is Korchinski's team worst -10. I know that critiquing prized high first round picks is unpopular around here but Korchinski would not have broken into the NHL this year on most other teams

I've critiqued KK plenty. He should not be playing games against literal legal children. Too many folks, largely and mostly from Canada defend the CHL agreement the NHL has because of blind nationalism. This legal adult can't make a living playing hockey professionally. It's stupid.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Seems like its a lot better to go to NCAA now to control your development.

4 years is way too long a time to be playing in the same Junior League for higher-end prospects that should be progressing.

People bring up Makar for instance, but he only played 2 years into NCAA (because it's an older, more refined league with players 18-24, as rank and file guys start at age 20 once they've run through juniors while top prospects typically start in their aged 18 season, sometimes 19, sometimes if they're Macklin Celebrini, aged 17).

That's one year to be the "rookie" and one year to be "the man". Korchinski and players like him were already "the man" in their aged 18 season because he was already a third year WHL player by that point. A fourth year is just overkill, lol. AHL would be an excellent spot for him, but it is what it is.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

It's not going to happen overnight. Patience is needed.

I've been posting on a Blackhawks forum since 04. Patience isn't something I lack.

 

[TLEH]

Like if I am seeing how Shane Wright had to bounce around in his D+1 because of the CHL agreement, then if I am an agent I am 100% recommending college hockey.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I mean I realize the CHL itself is a league. Like its a developmental league for the NHL, but they're trying to survive too. They operate sort of independent of the NHL where they don't necessarily care about the NHL.

Why would the CHL "not survive" if a couple players, like Korchinski, Zach Benson, etc. get sent to the AHL (and the team willingly chooses to burn a year of ELC)? Look at the Hawks, Korchinski is the only "AHL guy". Players like Hayes and Ludwinski are not necessarily AHL ready right now. There are like 60 teams across the Canadian Juniors, most go on to play Canadian USports and/or the ECHL. It's a small number of incremental players. They already lose the Bedard types "prematurely" to the NHL. It's not like suddenly right now in November, the players that are on rosters are going to disappear overnight. They just wouldn't have been there from the start of the season. Plenty of 19 year olds still there, and the future superstars still get to be there when they are 17, and often still at 18.

It's not different than NCAA teams (basketball, hockey, whatever) that always see players leave before their Senior year. Someone new comes in, the fans already know it's not the world's greatest talent assembled (because it's age-restricted to begin with), but they support it because that's their team and the culture/pride/fun of it all.

The CHL teams would continue to operate just as they already have.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I mean I realize the CHL itself is a league. Like its a developmental league for the NHL, but they're trying to survive too. They operate sort of independent of the NHL where they don't necessarily care about the NHL.

At the end of the day though, its about the players and forcing a guy to play in the CHL instead of AHL is sometimes bad for growth of the player and to me that goes against the sort of "point" of the CHL to begin with.

Sure allowing the Hawk to pay Seattle 200k to allow Korchinski to play in the AHL is maybe a solution but not sure how that would go.

Seems like more and more players are going NCAA route and I guarantee this is a conversation about why. BCHL -->NCAA as well as USHL ---> NCAA.

Macklin, Fantilli.

The Regina Pats turned down multiple firsts and young players last year so they could have Bedard selling tickets for another two months in a year they knew they weren't winning anything. It's a business.

 

[TLEH]

NCAA is different because almost all their sports lose money and get funded by football revenues and alumni.

I'm not saying that these guys going back save their franchise, I don't know the finances. I just know that is their argument.

The Regina Pats turned down multiple firsts and young players last year so they could have Bedard selling tickets for another two months in a year they knew they weren't winning anything. It's a business.

Pretty sure I read that he told them he wanted to stay. But I 100% agree that the CHL is a business of their own.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Didn't get a chance to watch last night, but I see a tough one for Bedard. That's gonna happen, but still hate to see it. Really hoping he can have a night where he gets 3+ points.

It happened for Kurashev. It's probably gonna happen for Reichel. I'd bet a large sum on it eventually happening for Bedard.

 

[TLEH]

I guess a question I have is.. would you let KK go to WJC this year?

To me the Dach injury is completely irrelevant in terms of this conversation.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Why would the CHL "not survive" if a couple players, like Korchinski, Zach Benson, etc. get sent to the AHL (and the team willingly chooses to burn a year of ELC)? Look at the Hawks, Korchinski is the only "AHL guy". Players like Hayes and Ludwinski are not necessarily AHL ready right now. There are like 60 teams across the Canadian Juniors, most go on to play Canadian USports and/or the ECHL. It's a small number of incremental players. They already lose the Bedard types "prematurely" to the NHL. It's not like suddenly right now in November, the players that are on rosters are going to disappear overnight. They just wouldn't have been there from the start of the season. Plenty of 19 year olds still there, and the future superstars still get to be there when they are 17, and often still at 18.

It's not different than NCAA teams (basketball, hockey, whatever) that always see players leave before their Senior year. Someone new comes in, the fans already know it's not the world's greatest talent assembled (because it's age-restricted to begin with), but they support it because that's their team and the culture/pride/fun of it all.

The CHL teams would continue to operate just as they already have.

The CHL may survive, with a lot less teams in it.

Teams are already losing massive amounts of money, if the team no longer has a couple of the best players in the league, they aren't going to be a very good team, and the fans won't come out to support them. Sure, it wouldn't matter to a team like the London Knights, or Kelowna Rockets, or the Kitchener Rangers, but then you have teams like the Lethbridge Hurricanes, or Sudbury Wolves who are losing money every year, so if you potentially take a KK or Benson away from them, they are an average team, the fans won't come out, they don't make the playoffs, or don't go deep in the playoffs, where they make most of their money.

"According to financial documents filed by the OHL as part of the pending class-action lawsuit, six of the league’s 20 teams have failed to break even in any of the past five years, and nine have averaged an annual loss greater than $100,000 over that span."

It's much different than NCAA, because those "franchises" are supported by much more than just hoping the fans show up every night. They have a whole university behind them, supporting them.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

As a seventeen year old Auston Matthews had to decide between playing in developmental leagues or making a million dollars playing professionally against men in Switzerland. He clearly made the right decision. KK isn't Matthews. He's obviously closer than further.

Canada can draft him, train him and give him an automatic weapon and tell him to kill people by the end of the year. He can't play a child's game for money. That's f***ed.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I guess a question I have is.. would you let KK go to WJC this year?

To me the Dach injury is completely irrelevant in terms of this conversation.

If he's not playing in the NHL absolutely. Would you let Bedard go?

 

[TLEH]

If he's not playing in the NHL absolutely. Would you let Bedard go?

If he IS playing in the NHL. Like how they did with Dach in 2020-2021

I wouldn't let Bedard go simply because he is staying here the entire year. Also just simply a better player.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If the teams are already not surviving, why is a 19 year old Fraser Minten playing for Kamloops going to save it?

Anyways, competitive balance is all relative anyways, if Kamloops can't have Fraser Minten, they are less good, a different team is a bit better and now they can get more fans, playoff revenue, etc.

 

[Hawkaholic]

As a seventeen year old Auston Matthews had to decide between playing in developmental leagues or making a million dollars playing professionally against men in Switzerland. He clearly made the right decision. KK isn't Matthews. He's obviously closer than further.

Canada can draft him, train him and give him an automatic weapon and tell him to kill people by the end of the year. He can't play a child's game for money. That's f***ed.

He also has the choice of what development path he wants to take, just like every other player. They still choose the CHL.

If he's not playing in the NHL absolutely. Would you let Bedard go?

Apples to oranges.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If the teams are already not surviving, why is a 19 year old Fraser Minten playing for Kamloops going to save it?

Anyways, competitive balance is all relative anyways, if Kamloops can't have Fraser Minten, they are less good, a different team is a bit better and now they can get more fans, playoff revenue, etc.

It's simple, the league as a whole will make more money with the Fraser Mintens, Korchinskis, etc, than without them, I'm not really sure how it's debatable. Making more money when most of the teams lose a lot of money, is a good thing for the league.

And then you get to a team like the Knights. They are a huge money getter for the OHL, if they didn't have Easton Cowan, Denver Barkey, and Oliver Bonk because they were too good for the OHL but not good enough for the NHL, they would be a crap team, fans wouldn't come out, and the entire league would be in huge debt.

 

[TJBrocker]

Said it in another thread, but AHL eligibility should be linked to draft year not birth. KK was one of the younger players, and has already spent another year in juniors after his draft.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's simple, the league as a whole will make more money with the Fraser Mintens, Korchinskis, etc, than without them, I'm not really sure how it's debatable. Making more money when most of the teams lose a lot of money, is a good thing for the league.

And then you get to a team like the Knights. They are a huge money getter for the OHL, if they didn't have Easton Cowan, Denver Barkey, and Oliver Bonk because they were too good for the OHL but not good enough for the NHL, they would be a crap team, fans wouldn't come out, and the entire league would be in huge debt.

they would have somebody else, Duke doesn't have Jayson Tatum, but then they have Zion Williamson, etc. That's just how it goes

 

[TLEH]

He also has the choice of what development path he wants to take, just like every other player. They still choose the CHL.

Plenty of great players still play in the CHL. 100%. Its not as many as 10 years ago and will probably continue to decline.

 

[Hawkaholic]

they would have somebody else, Duke doesn't have Jayson Tatum, but then they have Zion Williamson, etc. That's just how it goes

Who? lol You don't just get to pick another great player to take their spot.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Seems like its a lot better to go to NCAA now to control your development.

For most players, yeah, I think NCAA is a great route to take.

If you're a phenom type like Bedard, there's no point.

But NCAA can take you into your 20s instead of forcing you to a league you're not ready for, the top schools have really great training facilities and development, and you learn more life skills being in a college setting compared to being high school age and ripped out of school.

 

[TLEH]

For most players, yeah, I think NCAA is a great route to take.

If you're a phenom type like Bedard, there's no point.

But NCAA can take you into your 20s instead of forcing you to a league you're not ready for, the top schools have really great training facilities and development, and you learn more life skills being in a college setting compared to being high school age and ripped out of school.

Yeah but if you're a phenom you can just play USHL and graduate early like Macklin and play NCAA at 17. Its zero downside. Tying yourself to some BS CHL, NHL agreement is f***ed.

If Macklin somehow struggles he can go to the AHL, unlike Wright who was also exceptional status.