Player Discussion: Neal Pionk

[Kupo]

I think Pionk has top 4 potential, he's pretty good offensively, needs to improve defensively........keep in mind he was on brutal team with little help most nights.

Only surprise to me was no conditional pick attached to the deal.

Pionk was thrown into the fire last season as a rookie. He was playing on a rebuilding team with a new coaching staff who was implementing a new system. The Rangers were hot garbage last year.

You take an inexperienced offensive dmen and play him against other teams top lines and guess what will happen?

Pionk gets a lot of unnecessary hate from posters who need a scapegoat. He has good upside. He’ll never be a great dmen but he can carve out a career as a 4/5 PP specialist.

Unlike forwards, dmen don’t peak in their mid 20’s.

I’m not here to defend the trade. Not sure why Chevy couldn’t have gotten more. Trouba very well might have forced something everyone is oblivious to. I’m just trying to shed some light here with Pionk.

Pionk coast to coast:


Pionk with the Hit, Pass and Goal:


Pionk not being a pansy(and a wwf leg swipe)


Pionk getting his ass kicked(but having the guts to drop the gloves:
Neal Pionk vs Josh Archibald on January 6, 2019

This kid has upside. Don’t believe you traded for a talentless hack.

 

[WPGChief]

Chevy said a few things about Pionk in his interview that were a bit encouraging.
F
he said that according to everyone they talked with, he's a very competitive player. If so, he can still improve.

Second, he noted that he thought Pionk might benefit in a different roster environment. Some young D get hammered in big minute roles on bad teams.

Third, he specifically noted that he thought Pionk might be more effective with the Jets forward talent because of his good passing. I do think that has been a weakness on the Jets D. Myers and Trouba are poor passers and impede the transition game. Only Morrissey and Buff are good passers with vision. With Niku and Pionk, maybe the Jets will be better able to transition quickly.

I don't see it.

 

[Hunter368]

Rangers can easily flip Trouba to a contender for another first and prospect if they can't sign him long-term. They are firmly in the driver's seat and don't necessarily need a player like Trouba right now like the Jets do.

Pionk was undrafted, had his ceiling skyrocket after a few good seasons and then crashed firmly back down to earth. Remember, it's been proven time and time again that defenders aren't late growers by any means and likely have reached their potential at ages 23-25:

Trouba has proven since he was 20 that he was capable of a top 4 role. Pionk is no where close.

No one is suggesting he is close to Trouba or will ever be. He played on a bad team, with little help, higher up then he should of bc the Rangers were that bad. I'm expecting to be a bit pleased next year, seeing a 25-30+ point D who needs to work on his defensive game........not expecting the world from him next year......he might be held back to 3rd pairing duty depending on other moves.

OS protection is an asset.

Cap space on a cap team is an asset.

20OA is nice pick.

Pionk being a #5D who can play the PP is an asset.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is no conditional pick in the deal.

 

[Evil Little]

I don't see it.

How do his numbers compare to Schultz in Edmonton?

 

[Whileee]

Rangers can easily flip Trouba to a contender for another first and prospect if they can't sign him long-term. They are firmly in the driver's seat and don't necessarily need a player like Trouba right now like the Jets do.

Pionk was undrafted, had his ceiling skyrocket after a few good seasons and then crashed firmly back down to earth. Remember, it's been proven time and time again that defenders aren't late growers by any means and likely have reached their potential at ages 23-25:

Trouba has proven since he was 20 that he was capable of a top 4 role. Pionk is no where close.

Agree, in general. But there is variation around the distribution, and circumstances can stall players. Pionk had too big a role in a gong show with the Rangers last year. He was basically overwhelmed.

He's nowhere near to Trouba, but he might be better than his metrics indicate.

I'm not optimistic, but hopeful.

 

[Hunter368]

Chevy said a few things about Pionk in his interview that were a bit encouraging.
F
he said that according to everyone they talked with, he's a very competitive player. If so, he can still improve.

Second, he noted that he thought Pionk might benefit in a different roster environment. Some young D get hammered in big minute roles on bad teams.

Third, he specifically noted that he thought Pionk might be more effective with the Jets forward talent because of his good passing. I do think that has been a weakness on the Jets D. Myers and Trouba are poor passers and impede the transition game. Only Morrissey and Buff are good passers with vision. With Niku and Pionk, maybe the Jets will be better able to transition quickly.

This is exactly what I've been saying here......

 

[Evil Little]

No one is suggesting he is close to Trouba or will ever be. He played on a bad team, with little help, higher up then he should of bc the Rangers were that bad. I'm expecting to be a bit pleased next year, seeing a 25-30+ point D who needs to work on his defensive game........not expecting the world from him next year......he might be held back to 3rd pairing duty depending on other moves.

OS protection is an asset.

Cap space on a cap team is an asset.

20OA is nice pick.

Pionk being a #5D who can play the PP is an asset.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is no conditional pick in the deal.

Trouba never would have signed an offer sheet. And the Jets would've got way more than 20th and Pionk if he had and they didn't match.

 

[RustyCat]

Chevy said a few things about Pionk in his interview that were a bit encouraging.
F
he said that according to everyone they talked with, he's a very competitive player. If so, he can still improve.

Second, he noted that he thought Pionk might benefit in a different roster environment. Some young D get hammered in big minute roles on bad teams.

Third, he specifically noted that he thought Pionk might be more effective with the Jets forward talent because of his good passing. I do think that has been a weakness on the Jets D. Myers and Trouba are poor passers and impede the transition game. Only Morrissey and Buff are good passers with vision. With Niku and Pionk, maybe the Jets will be better able to transition quickly.

Really good points. And what it is worth, I feel people are seriously over-valuing Trouba. There were numerous games last year, especially at the start, where he was the worst player on the ice. He also had some spectacular games, too. But I do feel that a distraction was removed, money will be allocated to RFA's & possibly UFA's, and if what you (and Chevy) are saying about Pionk are true then that is potentially a nice fit.

Nothing in the business of hockey is linear and that is just how it is.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I don't see it.

U dont build teams based on stupid fancy stats. Trouba didnt wanna be here. This was the best deal available

 

[Hunter368]

Trouba never would have signed an offer sheet. And the Jets would've got way more than 20th and Pionk if he had and they didn't match.

Not refering get to an OS on Trouba.........I was referring to an OS on our RFA's.

 

[mashedpotato]

Chevy said a few things about Pionk in his interview that were a bit encouraging.
F
he said that according to everyone they talked with, he's a very competitive player. If so, he can still improve.

Second, he noted that he thought Pionk might benefit in a different roster environment. Some young D get hammered in big minute roles on bad teams.

Third, he specifically noted that he thought Pionk might be more effective with the Jets forward talent because of his good passing. I do think that has been a weakness on the Jets D. Myers and Trouba are poor passers and impede the transition game. Only Morrissey and Buff are good passers with vision. With Niku and Pionk, maybe the Jets will be better able to transition quickly.

Well, that's a relief, because I was thinking he'd be honest and say he inherited a piece of shit in Pionk and that the team basically is worse than it was yesterday.

 

[Whileee]

How do his numbers compare to Schultz in Edmonton?

Funny you should ask... very similar (Pionk was a bit better), using RAPM xGPM_60.

 

[Evil Little]

Not refering get to an OS on Trouba.........I was referring to an OS on our RFA's.

Ah, I see. That's just another line for cap space, though, isn't it?

 

[WPGChief]

No one is suggesting he is close to Trouba or will ever be. He played on a bad team, with little help, higher up then he should of bc the Rangers were that bad. I'm expecting to be a bit pleased next year, seeing a 25-30+ point D who needs to work on his defensive game........not expecting the world from him next year......he might be held back to 3rd pairing duty depending on other moves.

OS protection is an asset.

Cap space on a cap team is an asset.

20OA is nice pick.

Pionk being a #5D who can play the PP is an asset.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is no conditional pick in the deal.

Plenty of players have had good results on defensively bad teams. In fact, here's 20 of them from the worst 8 teams in terms of CA/60 in the NHL.

Pionk is 208th out of 245 defencemen in the NHL with over 1000 minutes over the last three years aggregate in terms of Goals Above Average per 60 (Evolving-Hockey). Trouba was 60th. You've traded away essentially a #2/3 defenceman for someone that might be closer to a #7 then he is a top 4, and a late first rounder that is essentially near the tail-end of its second cluster:

That is not the kind of return you get for a potentially top pairing defenceman, even if everyone knows he wants out.

 

[Whileee]

Any link to the interview?

Winnipeg Jets trade Jacob Trouba to the New York Rangers – Illegal Curve Hockey

 

[Daximus]

U dont build teams based on stupid fancy stats. Trouba didnt wanna be here. This was the best deal available

You don't build teams drafting players that hate your city either...

 

[Evil Little]

Funny you should ask... very similar (Pionk was a bit better), using RAPM xGPM_60.

View attachment 237381

Schultz-like-offense-first-reclamation-project is a slightly more positive view of this trade than worse-than-Myers.

 

[WPGChief]

U dont build teams based on stupid fancy stats. Trouba didnt wanna be here. This was the best deal available

Chevy just cited stats that he might thrive here because of good passing. I've shown that's not the case. Why direct your anger at me?

I have significant trouble believing that not even a playoff contender that would've been able to snag Trouba and have him on an arbitrated contract would not have offered something better than a late first rounder and a middling, overachieving defender.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Chevy just cited stats that he might thrive here because of good passing. I've shown that's not the case. Why direct your anger at me?

I have significant trouble believing that not even a playoff contender that would've been able to snag Trouba and have him on an arbitrated contract would not have offered something better than a late first rounder and a middling, overachieving defender.

Believe it.

 

[The Blue Baron]

We gifted a top defenseman for next to nothing.

We gifted our first round draft pick and Lemieux for nothing.

To the same ****ing team.

Get a god dam grip man. Your posts are lacking emotion.

 

[Afterburner]

Well Pionk, welcome to the Peg!

 

[Evil Little]

Chevy just cited stats that he might thrive here because of good passing. I've shown that's not the case. Why direct your anger at me?

I have significant trouble believing that not even a playoff contender that would've been able to snag Trouba and have him on an arbitrated contract would not have offered something better than a late first rounder and a middling, overachieving defender.

And I would've just had a pissy Trouba stay here and play out his RFA years, but they clearly think Pionk is better than I do.

I'm curious to see why.

 

[WPGChief]

Believe it.

Whoops, I still don't.

 

[Trinity]

So who's getting a Pionk jersey?

 

[Hunter368]

Ah, I see. That's just another line for cap space, though, isn't it?

One way of looking at it yes, but making the point that OS threat is no longer here.