Series Talk: Nazzy

[socko]

Stamkos wasn't leaving T-Bay , it was widely rumored he only met with Toronto in an attempt to get a better offer out of the Bolts. Yzerman knew this and held firm which led to his other stars taking reasonable deals .

We just finished dead last and Tampa was a contender , no way he was leaving to come to Toronto . Had the Islanders been a contender and we had just finished dead last when JT came up he wouldn't signed with us either .

That seems reasonable but the glory he would experience in Toronto was far greater than any glory he could achieve in Tampa. Last year when Tampa won the Cup, the streets were completely empty 2 hours later. The Toronto media made fun of it, and rightfully so. I would think only Stamkos knows for sure if there was a chance.

 

[therealkoho]

Stamkos wasn't leaving T-Bay , it was widely rumored he only met with Toronto in an attempt to get a better offer out of the Bolts. Yzerman knew this and held firm which led to his other stars taking reasonable deals .

We just finished dead last and Tampa was a contender , no way he was leaving to come to Toronto . Had the Islanders been a contender and we had just finished dead last when JT came up he wouldn't signed with us either .

They did offer him the moon and the sun as well as the stars (Canadian Tire was there offering a huge deal for him and his Dad to be spokesmen, Tim Hortons as well) the final tally was rumored to be 14m including endorsements which would would have trumped the Tampa offer by about 1m, after taxes and what not

I didn't want anything to do with him as the caphit was estimated to have been 12 or so.

TBH I'm really not too happy about any of those Leafs in the 10+++ club, none of them have earned it as "yet" in their careers. 60 goals to me while a great accomplishment means SFA without the last win of the season.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I like Naz but come on, his team swept Edmonton without him and already had Tampa on the ropes by the time he came back.

Aside from the suspensions, he was always on the ice when the guy he was supposed to be covering eliminated his team in previous years. Colorado is just a powerhouse this year that can lose a 2C for 2 series without missing a beat.

Glad he won though, hope to see him do it again somewhere as a core piece rather than a passenger.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I agree but the common denominator for those trades is Dubas making rash decisions and maybe not seeing players for their potential. Not allowing things to progress a bit. I don’t think there is a right of wrong in this situation. Some people think Dubas was right for trading him and we had to do it, but the end result hasn’t really changed since the trade so you can only blame Kadri so much. Others think we should have kept him but there’s no way to know if he doesn’t continue to be a bit reckless.

Dubas has done a good job but i think something he can take away from this Toronto experience is to give players time. I like Dubas btw.

For sure. I think with a clean slate, some time, and taking what he's learnt here, he could be a decent GM. The problem we have is, he did too much damage, too quickly and now there's no way out it seems. The only option for us, is to wait until Tavares' contract runs out. But in the meantime, we have precious few tradeable assets. We either a) don't want to trade them b) can't trade them or c) can trade them, but due to our cap structure, have to take back a guy making the same figure.

I like Naz but come on, his team swept Edmonton without him and already had Tampa on the ropes by the time he came back.

Aside from the suspensions, he was always on the ice when the guy he was supposed to be covering eliminated his team in previous years. Colorado is just a powerhouse this year that can lose a 2C for 2 series without missing a beat.

Glad he won though, hope to see him do it again somewhere as a core piece rather than a passenger.

This reads like a "I'm not a chauvinist, but......".

So many backhanded compliments.

Edit: I'm not saying you are a chauvinist, just the way it read.

 

[therealkoho]

Can you imagine this place had Dubas not traded him when he got suspended for the 3rd time in the playoffs? I'd bet a ton that the same people complaining today would have been all over Dubas, for not getting whatever we could for Kadri before he went and did it again.

Had Kadri been able to control his emotions, we may well have won both playoff series against Boston but he couldn't do it, and losing a key player for almost the entire series proved to be too much of a handicap for us to overcome. He arguably cost us both those series and the fact that people here are now deifying him only shows how irrational some people can be.

Kinda funny that Kadri is to blame for the series loss to Boston because of his absence and yet we lose our Captain for an entire series and suddenly the narrative becomes;

we lost the series because of Mitch not putting the puck in the net

not because the big shooter didn't produce either

and not because of the huge hole Johnny left in the lineup

Speaking of irrationality

 

[therealkoho]

Maybe Naz could have simply fought DeBrusk and Wagner?

And maybe the incompetent zebras shouldn't have let the Bruins get away with a slewfoot, a spear, and a couple of high hits which led to the game getting out of hand

If the opponent is dishing out the dirt like it's free, somebody is going to get badly injured if somebody doesn't do something about it

The referees caused all that nonsense and the NHL decides its Kadri's fault. Had the called the slewfoot 2, 5 and a game none of it would've happened.

 

[DarkKnight]

A bit of hyperbole, on Fan this AM Kyper called it the worst trade in Leafs history. LOL.

I like Naz but come on, his team swept Edmonton without him and already had Tampa on the ropes by the time he came back.

Aside from the suspensions, he was always on the ice when the guy he was supposed to be covering eliminated his team in previous years. Colorado is just a powerhouse this year that can lose a 2C for 2 series without missing a beat.

Glad he won though, hope to see him do it again somewhere as a core piece rather than a passenger.

Have you considered giving basketball a crack? Worth a shot by the looks of it.

 

[hotpaws]

That seems reasonable but the glory he would experience in Toronto was far greater than any glory he could achieve in Tampa. Last year when Tampa won the Cup, the streets were completely empty 2 hours later. The Toronto media made fun of it, and rightfully so. I would think only Stamkos knows for sure if there was a chance.

yup you're right , winning a cup in Toronto would be a much bigger deal but how many players would leave a high quality teams to go to a bottom feeder at his age ? yeah he was only 26 at that time but he had some injury/health issues and it's not like he was going to a new organization either way so i'm sure winning with the team that drafted him as well with some guys he grew with meant a lot to him as well

if the situation was different i could see him coming home but it wasn't so i doubt who was our GM at that time would have impacted his decision

 

[socko]

yup you're right , winning a cup in Toronto would be a much bigger deal but how many players would leave a high quality teams to go to a bottom feeder at his age ? yeah he was only 26 at that time but he had some injury/health issues and it's not like he was going to a new organization either way so i'm sure winning with the team that drafted him as well with some guys he grew with meant a lot to him as well

if the situation was different i could see him coming home but it wasn't so i doubt who was our GM at that time would have impacted his decision

It was a bad team, but it was also a team with Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. The future was bright and anyone could see that. I'm amazed at how little we have accomplished to be honest. So much potential unrealized.

 

[hotpaws]

It was a bad team, but it was also a team with Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. The future was bright and anyone could see that. I'm amazed at how little we have accomplished to be honest. So much potential unrealized.

the future looked bright but none of them had even played a season and no one knew how long it would take them to develop or if they would develop into elite players like M and M have so it would have taken a massive leap of faith from Stammer to leave his elite team to go to the situation Tor was in at that time

100% correct on the unrealized potential and the worst part is how many futures Dubie has moved while building a team with no starting a goalie , a scrap heap bottom 6 and a D core where 4 of the 7 signed are between 30 and 39 years old , also a 32 year old 11m C who can't skate and is not so gently regressing

 

[socko]

Tampa was the safe bet for sure, but I think Stamkos was a little bit miffed at the lowball offer from Tampa which possibly opened the door for us. Certainly if we followed up with another lowball offer that would kill any momentum. But it's also possible he was just using the Leafs for leverage.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kinda funny that Kadri is to blame for the series loss to Boston because of his absence and yet we lose our Captain for an entire series and suddenly the narrative becomes;

we lost the series because of Mitch not putting the puck in the net

not because the big shooter didn't produce either

and not because of the huge hole Johnny left in the lineup

Speaking of irrationality

I said that you can't pinpoint one reason we lost so Kadri isn't "the" reason. It makes more sense to say that there were a number of reasons and in those two cases, Kadri was near the top of the list. Did you miss that, or did you just not understand it? Is it clear now?

As far as losing JT goes, my personal opinion is that of course losing him hurt and of course you could argue that we probably beat MTL if he doesn't get hurt but we were such huge favourites against MTL that we should have beat them anyway. That certainly wasn't the case against Boston, we were dogs both times. And anyway JT didn't lose his cool and get suspended so that's a whole other story anyway.

 

[Daisy Jane]

There is 100% truth to this market being insufferable. A lot of people go "yeah sure blame the fans, media. that's bs it's the players" The same players Management, media and fans claimed we can't win with have gone on to go win cups. This market is the hardest place to play and win. Not just those guys but other guys have gone on great runs. Dion Phaneuf was a big part of Ottawa's Eastern Conference run as well.

all of them. who won. [which, congrats to them], won playing on teams where they were placed in their ideal situation. Dion wasn't captain and first pair D for Ottawa. Bozak wasn't 1st line centre. Kessel was not the first line winger and the star of the show. and it seems that Kadri rightly got the kick in the pants he needed after being traded and was connecting with his line.

They weren't the stars, they weren't the main horses, they were where they needed to to be, playing the roles the should have, probably for the most part being paid normal amounts of money (those who signed in UFA). and I am only speaking for myself. Again, I think Kessel has a very short shelf life with teams. See Boston, see here, see Pittsburgh. my isssue with him was never about his playoff performances. I personally didn't want bozak to go but we couldn't afford him, and Naz was a flipping dipstick in both playoff runs and I personally don't blame management after they talked to him and promising he learned his lesson to take the same kind of penalty, in the same freaking corner basically around the same time as the last one, being extremely apprehensive about him being on the team. [not. as people love lament. "the team is marshallmallowy soft, etc etc." but whatever].

let's not pretend that if they all stayed here together, we were winning it all.

Toronto is as "insufferable" to play in as other major markets with a big historic past, and I would say as insufferable as Toronto is, it's still easier than a lot of the other markets because at the end of the day it's all hot noise. most of the "pressure" goes away if someone makes a big hit here. the pressure isn't even to win a cup here anymore, it's just to win a playoff series. you think that would fly in New York, or Boston, or Philadelphia or England for any of the soccer clubs?

at any rate. congrats to Naz for winning. I am sincerely glad he did, and that more importantly got his poop together and played extremely well.

 

[francis246]

all of them. who won. [which, congrats to them], won playing on teams where they were placed in their ideal situation. Dion wasn't captain and first pair D for Ottawa. Bozak wasn't 1st line centre. Kessel was not the first line winger and the star of the show. and it seems that Kadri rightly got the kick in the pants he needed after being traded and was connecting with his line.

They weren't the stars, they weren't the main horses, they were where they needed to to be, playing the roles the should have, probably for the most part being paid normal amounts of money (those who signed in UFA). and I am only speaking for myself. Again, I think Kessel has a very short shelf life with teams. See Boston, see here, see Pittsburgh. my isssue with him was never about his playoff performances. I personally didn't want bozak to go but we couldn't afford him, and Naz was a flipping dipstick in both playoff runs and I personally don't blame management after they talked to him and promising he learned his lesson to take the same kind of penalty, in the same freaking corner basically around the same time as the last one, being extremely apprehensive about him being on the team. [not. as people love lament. "the team is marshallmallowy soft, etc etc." but whatever].

let's not pretend that if they all stayed here together, we were winning it all.

Toronto is as "insufferable" to play in as other major markets with a big historic past, and I would say as insufferable as Toronto is, it's still easier than a lot of the other markets because at the end of the day it's all hot noise. most of the "pressure" goes away if someone makes a big hit here. the pressure isn't even to win a cup here anymore, it's just to win a playoff series. you think that would fly in New York, or Boston, or Philadelphia or England for any of the soccer clubs?

at any rate. congrats to Naz for winning. I am sincerely glad he did, and that more importantly got his poop together and played extremely well.

Would you rather Kessel at 8 or Marleau at 7?

Or JVR at 7 vs Marleau at 7?

Would you rather Kadri at 4.5 or Kerfoot at 3.5 and basically half a quality season of Barrie?

Bozak out priced himself, I’ll give you that. It would have been interesting to see them keep some of those guys and infuse them with the youth we had develop right before we let a number of them go. I think that could have been a pretty strong forward group.

 

[hamzarocks]

Never forget the contributions of Jake the pizza man Gardiner


Don't forget Gunarsson

Gardiner played worse defense than Brodie and Gio (game 6 Cirelli and Game 7 Paul 2-1 goal) in 2018 on the 5-4 debrusk goal. He was terrible in game 7 2018 but pretty good the rest of the way

In 2019 he was playing off an injury and not as impactful as usual.... until game 7 lool

He had the turnover i think on Goal 2 (Nordstrom?). Matthews was also screening andersen and he got beat by a 4th liner

Leafs have been finding ways to lose fir a long time

 

[hamzarocks]

Never forget the contributions of Jake the pizza man Gardiner


Don't forget Gunarsson

Gardiner played worse defense than Brodie and Gio (game 6 Cirelli and Game 7 Paul 2-1 goal) in 2018 on the 5-4 debrusk goal. He was terrible in game 7 2018 but pretty good the rest of the way

In 2019 he was playing off an injury and not as impactful as usual.... until game 7 lool

He had the turnover i think on Goal 2 (Nordstrom?). Matthews was also screening andersen and he got beat by a 4th liner

Leafs have been finding ways to lose fir a long time

Yeah you're right, they collapsed both times and Kadri probably wouldn't have made a difference. But ... with Kadri, maybe they win it before it goes to game 7, no way to know for sure. I guess you could argue it both ways. On one hand, both series were so close, if a fine player like Kadri wouldn't move the needle even that little bit to put us over the top against Boston in either of those two years, then losing him can't be a big deal either. On the other hand, maybe we're just cursed and were doomed to lose no matter what, who knows.

Wait for more suitors - yeah fair point, that might have been better. I could understand wanting to get it done in the off-season, start the new season fresh and so on but I can see the case for waiting too.

I thought you meant they were looking for an excuse to trade him, never mind.


You mean Phil Kessel? I thought we got a pretty good return there and more to the point, Lou was in charge at the time.

Dubas/Hunter made the kessel deal

It was also a poor return as Kessel had been a ppg player three years running in a lower scoring era on a crap team.

Not the worst return but not the best either. I'm 99% sure dealt the first from that trade for Andersen so atleast we (Lou I guess here) was able to use a late 1st to get a 60 game top 10 goalie for three years.

Andersen deal was a fair good one.

Kapanen deal was good to at the time, unfortunately Amirov is currently sick and may not have been the right player to take with some nice D/W behind him (hoping he can come out healthy)

 

[Gabriel426]

This was the most criticizing post based entirely on a pessimistic hypothetical reality

20% of winning First overall. Thats means 80% of not winning First overall.
You can't tell me you serious thought Leafs would have won the 1st overall pick before the lottery.

 

[Gary Nylund]

20% of winning First overall. Thats means 80% of not winning First overall.
You can't tell me you serious thought Leafs would have won the 1st overall pick before the lottery.

You'd be surprised by what some people might tell you in these parts.

 

[DarkKnight]

When people tell me Naz’s comments have nothing to do with the Leafs…

.

 

[saffronleaf]

When people tell me Naz’s comments have nothing to do with the Leafs…

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that detail was kinda buried quickly but I've always wanted some closure on that. what happened? I guess Dubas was just following protocol? Cuz whatever you think of Dubas he seems to care for his players.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

that detail was kinda buried quickly but I've always wanted some closure on that. what happened? I guess Dubas was just following protocol? Cuz whatever you think of Dubas he seems to care for his players.

He was too excited about acquiring his future top pair puck moving dman to give him a proper heads up.

 

[All Mod Cons]

When people tell me Naz’s comments have nothing to do with the Leafs…

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That's a horrendous thing for a GM to do. Some say Kyle is a great guy.

 

[saffronleaf]

That's a horrendous thing for a GM to do. Some say Kyle is a great guy.

lol kyle needs to read ppl better. he stuck his neck out for mikheyev, and he's been chomping at the bit to leave for a year now. ignored kadri, the loyal hero.

 

[socko]

When people tell me Naz’s comments have nothing to do with the Leafs…

.View attachment 562793

 

[ITM]

Heart and soul player offering heart and soul commentary on asset management.

Congrats on the Cup, Naz.