World Cup: National Team threads

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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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I also really like Belgium and think they're the 'dark horse' pick for me. If Kompany can stay healthy as well you've got probably the best CB group in the tournament (Vertonghen, Kompany, Alderweireld) as well as not one, but two of the top 10 players in the world (de Bruyne, Hazard) with a couple other world class players (Mertens, Courtois) and great supplementary players as well (Lukaku, Dembele, Nainggolan). The weakest part of the team would be their fullbacks but given those are the least important players on the pitch...

Courtois
Meunier - Alderweireld* - Vertonghen - Lukaku?
de Bruyne - Dembele - Nainggolan
Hazard - Mertens
Lukaku
So much potential in that team.
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
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The weakest part of the team would be their fullbacks but given those are the least important players on the pitch...

Oh I disagree on that.

Fullbacks are VITAL.

It is why Pep was whining about them last year and bought 12 over the summer.
It's why Barca was suffering last year at RB (basically bleeding on the right side as Rakitic and Busquests had to cover for whoever was playing RB).
It's why Real was struggling so bad this season in the first half when Marcelo and Carvajal were first injured/ill, and then later struggling for form.


Now, that said, Belgium as very, very high level players in every position except maybe LB (I rat Meunier highly, not world-class, but quality).

Not that dissimilar to Croatia (also suspect at LB, probably going to be Strinic), but Belgium has better forwards (Hazard/Mertens/Lukaku vs Mandzukic/Perisic/Kramaric (or Pjaca).
 

ViD

#CBJNeedHugs
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Imagine if Serbia and Croatia were still one country?

That midfield would be insane : Modric, Rakitic, Matic, Kovacic, Savic...
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
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Well let him decide when he's good enough.
France doesn't need him, I don't mind one bit that he plays for you guy. But at least let him turn pro full time before calling him up like some kind of phenom he isn't.

Logical for France to try to call him up since he learnt his football in a french academy. He moved to France in 2014. 4 years is quite enough to learn the leanguage.

Just to be clear, I agree. I was explaining that the the interim coach is getting a lot of blame for Jonathan Gonzalez choosing to play for Mexico. This seems a near 100% reaction to that. If Weah was only eligible for the USA, I don't think he would've been called up. I don't think he was on their radar him until he played for PSG's first team a few weeks ago. I would guess he was slated to be at the U20 camp until then.

And he's not a phenom, I agree. He's a good player, but there are other good young players who are probably in the pecking order before him, if the game mattered. He's not even the first 2000 born striker called up to the NT, but that player doesn't have four nationalities, so he made the U20 list instead of the National Team list. And there are also veterans who are ahead of him. I doubt he even plays, he's probably just there to train, and he gets a training spot ahead of others because he's eligible for four countries.
 
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cgf

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Oct 15, 2010
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For me, if Belgium can adopt a winning mentality, they are my favorites.
No quarter finals or something like that, their goal needs to be to win it all - they are that good.
Best generation of players a "smaller" football nation has put out since 2004 Czech Rep and 1998 Croatia.

Fantastic defense (with two CBs who've played together forever), world class midfield, amazing forwards.
If I were Belgium, I would be aiming for the Cup - nothing else would satisfy me.

Croatia... Are back to being the perennial dark horse. The midfield will perform (Modric, Rakitic, Kovacic/Brozovic/Badelj), but the attack is filled with players who range from dominant to invisible (Perisic Madzukic, Kramaric) and a lot will depend if Pjaca can regain full fitness and form in time. He could easily be the X factor in a some games.
I want a deep run, and we could easily get to the semis or so. The quality is there.
We could also bomb out and never go past the group stage - the Croatian way, from brilliant to rubbish and back, in 7 days.

I don't see Belgium as one of the top 4 teams. KdB & Hazard are studly, and their CBs are second only to Germany's, but I don't see a convincing case to have the Belgiums over Germany / France / Spain / Brazil...even on paper :-/
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Oh I disagree on that.

Fullbacks are VITAL.

It is why Pep was whining about them last year and bought 12 over the summer.
It's why Barca was suffering last year at RB (basically bleeding on the right side as Rakitic and Busquests had to cover for whoever was playing RB).
It's why Real was struggling so bad this season in the first half when Marcelo and Carvajal were first injured/ill, and then later struggling for form.


Now, that said, Belgium as very, very high level players in every position except maybe LB (I rat Meunier highly, not world-class, but quality).

Not that dissimilar to Croatia (also suspect at LB, probably going to be Strinic), but Belgium has better forwards (Hazard/Mertens/Lukaku vs Mandzukic/Perisic/Kramaric (or Pjaca).

Having good FBs is a major boon...but they're less important than CBs, they are less important than midfielders, & they are less important than attackers :dunno:

There's a reason most high-end FBs played more important positions at youth levels before moving to FB as pros.
 
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Paulie Gualtieri

R.I.P. Tony Sirico
May 18, 2016
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It really is. Defensively they're a wash, and Alonso brings so much more going forward. With the exception of Mendy (assuming he returns to last year's form when healthy), Alonso is easily the best LB in the Prem.

I barely consider Alonso a defender. Monreal, Davies and Robertson have all been better than him this season.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
60,373
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Imagine if Serbia and Croatia were still one country?

That midfield would be insane : Modric, Rakitic, Matic, Kovacic, Savic...

Czecho-slovakia is the former NT that would be the most fun to watch play as one again...at least for me cause I really love so many of those Czech & Slovakian midfielders. While having Skriniar anchoring things in the back & Schick as the spearhead up front would be a great start to building a strong team around those studs...Hamsik, Darida, Jankto, Lobotka, Benes, Barak, etc...throw in an excellent FB/WB in Kaderabek, and a good winger in Krecji and that team could be really good if a coach clever enough to figure out how to use all of that talent in the starting 11 was in charge.

Personally, I'd just go full amoeba formation: Schick up front, Skriniar in back, Kaderabek on the right, Krecji on the left, and those 6 midfielders I listed above dispersed between those 4 outer players.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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I don't see Belgium as one of the top 4 teams. KdB & Hazard are studly, and their CBs are second only to Germany's, but I don't see a convincing case to have the Belgiums over Germany / France / Spain / Brazil...even on paper :-/
The lines between these teams become pretty blurry I think. It's kind of crazy how many teams are talent laden right now. I mean, I can try and do a best XI for those 5 teams and you might pick one over the other or whatever but we're talking very marginal differences on paper IMO.

Germany: Neuer, Hector*, Hummels, Boateng, Kimmich, Kroos, Gundogan, Ozil, Sane, Werner, Muller
France: Lloris, Mendy, Umtiti, Varane, Sidibe, Kante, Pogba, Rabiot, Dembele, Griezmann, Mbappe
Spain: de Gea, Alba, Pique, Ramos, Carvajal, Busquets, Silva, Thiago, Isco, Costa, Asensio*
Brazil: Alisson, Marcelo, Silva, Marquinhos, Alves, Casemiro, Fernandinho, Coutinho, Neymar, Firmino, Willian
Belgium: Courtois, Lukaku, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Meunier, Dembele, Nainggolan, de Bruyne, Hazard, Mertens, Lukaku

I think you could definitely make an argument that Belgium could even be the best of those teams on paper (it's probably France on paper IMO). Every one of those teams is very complete though. I just think right now with the form guys like de Bruyne, Hazard and Mertens are in they've got an edge if the coach can figure out the tactical side. Though again...Spain's midfield is just so sexy.
 

Gecklund

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Jul 17, 2012
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Batshuayi over Lukaku would be a big call to make, but I think it makes some sense.
I don’t. Lukaku has been fantastic for United. His work off the ball and hold up play would be great for Belgium. Also his strength and finishing ability will compliment the midfield perfect. Lukaku gives his all every minute he’s out there.

As a backup or playing off Lukaku is one thing but I highly doubt Belgium will be starting Bats over Luk.
 

Deficient Mode

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Mar 25, 2011
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I'm not overly impressed with either Belgium's or Brazil's midfields. Lacking a strategic control player. Brazil have more stars everywhere else though. And Belgium has the most questions about its coaching. I'd have them 5th best.
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
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Having good FBs is a major boon...but they're less important than CBs, they are less important than midfielders, & they are less important than attackers :dunno:

There's a reason most high-end FBs played more important positions at youth levels before moving to FB as pros.

You take out Marcelo and Carvajal out of Real, replace them with Theo Hernandez and Achraf (as was the case this season) and its no longer the same team. I mean, even a struggling Marcelo or Carvajal made that Real squad look so pedestrian in the first half of the season.
They're THAT important for them.

The modern fullback is force on both ends of the pitch, and absolutely vital in transition. They need to be defensively adequate to basically play CB when the ball is on the off-wing, they need to have the stamina and speed to make the most sprints in the match, and their average KM run has climbed up so much that they're almost up there with midfielders right.
The modern fullback is no longer a Gary Neville, a very limited offensive player, but a fixture in any Man Utd or England side in his playing days and a great player in his own right. Not even a Maldini, probably my favorite player of all time (even though I grew up a Juve fan).
Its a Marcelo, Carvajal, Lahm, even Ashley Cole, etc.

It is true, and you're right, that they were very dull 20 years ago, at least those fullbacks in a 4-at-the-back.
A lot of continental teams used wing-backs with 3-5-2 that was so popular across Germany, Italy, Croatia, etc.
In a 4-4-2 teams used a Tassoti, Maldini,Thuram or Neville, in a 3-5-2 teams used a Robert Jarni, for example.
God I miss Jarni, we've seen nothing like him in 15 years here (speaking of Croatia).
Very few fullbacks were bombing forward in a 4-at-the-back, or had the capacity for it (Cafu and Roberto Carlos, for example).

Here's a decent, though very superficial article on fullbacks and their growing role in the game, including some data - though sadly only about the Premier League:
How full-backs became football's most important players

And again, if your fullback is not up to par, defensively or offensively, your midfielder and winger have to cheat to that side, creating a "bleed" on the pitch.
Last season's Barca was a perfect example.

FWIW, I played CB, and when my starting LB was injured or something, and replaced by an inferior player, it's a different game.
You start cheating to his side, trying to protect his back more than usual, etc etc. - and that's just defensively.

Anyway... TLDR; IMO fullbacks have become absolutely vital in modern football, yes. Partly because they're "more than fullbacks" today.
 

Deficient Mode

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Mar 25, 2011
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Impact of losing Marcelo and Carvajal (when fit) speaks more to the lacking depth at the position and how good those two are as players than to the importance of the fullback position itself.
 
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Wee Baby Seamus

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Mar 15, 2011
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Some systems rely really heavily on having good full-backs - Chelsea for instance, use the wing-backs as a constant outlet, which means they have a lot of possession and play a really vital offensive role (so it's a shame one of them is f***ing garbage). In a vacuum, FB is the least important position on the field, and I'm saying that as someone who played left-back at every high level he ever played at - I KNOW HOW UNIMPORTANT I WAS.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Fullback is the least important position on the field without a doubt. Having great fullbacks is still a boon to the team though.
 
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TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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No such thing as inherently 'important' or 'unimportant' positions in a game as fluid as football. It's 11 players and all of them are vital cogs. You can't hide a rubbish player on the field. From a management perspective I'd rather give up a winger or 2nd striker than a fullback if I'm down to 10. You need everyone on your side of the halfway line to maintain your shape, everyone going forward is sort of optional.
 

bluesfan94

Registered User
Jan 7, 2008
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What pressure? The US doesn't play an important game for months. This is the perfect time for them to pre-maturely cap dual-nationals. It's one of the few perks they get from f***ing up the WC-quali.
Exactly. The only benefit for the USA is that now is the time to go young and go dual. I'm gutted about Gonzalez but now's the time to lock people in. Even if it's a friendly, show your interest.
 
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