Confirmed with Link: (NAS/MTL) Shea Weber for P.K. Subban
- Thread starter jntarheels
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Kebs
Def not just a zombie tiger typing
- Aug 13, 2007
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Roman Yoshi
#164303
sparkle twin
Registered User
I went down to the sidewalk sale Friday afternoon to pick up my passport and shop the sale. And while I was there PK and his family came through the arena. He was super nice and talked with everyone that stopped him and shook hands and took pictures with anyone that wanted one. 
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
He's like Bill Clinton. Lots of people have dissed him but everyone who meets him has only good things to say.I went down to the sidewalk sale Friday afternoon to pick up my passport and shop the sale. And while I was there PK and his family came through the arena. He was super nice and talked with everyone that stopped him and shook hands and took pictures with anyone that wanted one.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
He's been a top-3 NHLer in my eyes since his sophomore season and I'll miss him.
But I could get used to this guy:
Pred303
Registered User
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
I see what you're getting at, but I find this comparison uncomfortable at best.
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yeah.... i'm sure there's more then a few women might have some bad things to say about Bill Clinton ... not to dive too far into the political realm
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
- 13,240
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on the ice or off? PK seems to be a big upgrade from the eye and analyticals. weber has become overrated through the years. we win this trade now and definitely in the future. wouldn't disagree of chemistry and off the ice being worse with him gone.
Until I actually see otherwise, I think Weber is the better player. Subban is closer to Josi then Weber for me.
glenngineer
Registered User
By that logic Subban is better than Weber. I think Josi surpassed Weber last year as the better overall defenseman. San Jose took away Josi in the playoffs and it killed our breakouts. Without having another puck mover alongside him, Josi struggled with Weber on the other side. If we use Subban with Josi it's pick your poison as to who you want to take out of the game because teams will not be able to negate the puck handling and moving of both Subban and Josi.
Pred303
Registered User
I will concede I think subban is better than weber in some areas of the game. however I also think without a doubt weber is better than subban in others. two different type defensemen entirely, it's like trying to compare josi with weber. or a power forward with a centerman. it's a fools game to even try it. what matters most is whether their particular talent sets make their team 'better'.
obviously i have a few concerns here for the short term.
1)without a doubt a healthy subban will get more assists than weber. will that increase in assist come from a proportionate reduction in josi's assists? if it does, there's nothing really gained assist wise. if it doesn't well that would be great.
2)subban should help our forwards be more effective offensively. will reduced goal scoring from the blueline (almost surely will happen without weber) be more than offset by increased goal production from our forwards? and if that happens is that a result of having subban instead of weber or just natural growth and improvement from guys like Forsberg or a rebound from Wilson? we will see, hopefully it far more than makes up for 10-15 less goals from our d.
3)almost surely we will give up more scoring chances without weber. subban's biggest critics stress his turnovers. will we give up more goals? or will an improvement in rinne cancel that increase in chances? i don't know.
4)i give credit to team leadership and defense for the good record we have had in one goal games. intangibles many times decide close games. will team chemistry be the same? that could show up in our record in those close games.
I'm not saying i think this is a bad trade. if subban stays healthy we outright win this trade in a couple years. but I'm not sure yet we win this trade outright right now.
we all know we already were a good team. any improvement in Forsberg, any contribution from Fiala or the other youngsters, or return to form of Wilson or especially Rinne and we already were a contending team. Now if those happen, almost singlehanded credit for the improvement will go to Subban around the league. i admit that bothers me a little for some reason. maybe i'll get over it when the season starts. winning cures everything.
obviously i have a few concerns here for the short term.
1)without a doubt a healthy subban will get more assists than weber. will that increase in assist come from a proportionate reduction in josi's assists? if it does, there's nothing really gained assist wise. if it doesn't well that would be great.
2)subban should help our forwards be more effective offensively. will reduced goal scoring from the blueline (almost surely will happen without weber) be more than offset by increased goal production from our forwards? and if that happens is that a result of having subban instead of weber or just natural growth and improvement from guys like Forsberg or a rebound from Wilson? we will see, hopefully it far more than makes up for 10-15 less goals from our d.
3)almost surely we will give up more scoring chances without weber. subban's biggest critics stress his turnovers. will we give up more goals? or will an improvement in rinne cancel that increase in chances? i don't know.
4)i give credit to team leadership and defense for the good record we have had in one goal games. intangibles many times decide close games. will team chemistry be the same? that could show up in our record in those close games.
I'm not saying i think this is a bad trade. if subban stays healthy we outright win this trade in a couple years. but I'm not sure yet we win this trade outright right now.
we all know we already were a good team. any improvement in Forsberg, any contribution from Fiala or the other youngsters, or return to form of Wilson or especially Rinne and we already were a contending team. Now if those happen, almost singlehanded credit for the improvement will go to Subban around the league. i admit that bothers me a little for some reason. maybe i'll get over it when the season starts. winning cures everything.
nomorekids
The original, baby
I think...confidently...that an increase in turnovers will be cancelled out by decreased d-zone time and a quicker transition.
We shall see.
People often overlook the amount of times Weber successfully covered for Josi. Weber was willing to play that stay at home role, will anyone else be as good at it?
No, they won't. Weber is elite in the defensive zone. No one else on Predators roster is what I consider elite in the defensive zone. Each of the top 4 defensemen are pretty good in that respect, but they aren't elite.
Now, will the benefits that Subban brings to the table with his different set of talents outweigh the fact that no one on the team can play as well as Weber in the defensive zone?
I hope so. I think so. But, ultimately, I don't know.
In the short term this may be an issue for us but I think starting about 2 or 3 years from now, pretty much everything about Subban's game will outweigh anything that Weber would've given us. Offensively or defensively.
Perhaps. As a fan, I want to have my cake and eat it too.
ie, I'd like to see the Predators have better results next season too.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
The other thing Subban brings you is the ability to shuffle the defensive deck a bit more too. The issue with Weber has always been his ability to move the puck out of the zone, so while defensively you could pair him with about anyone, if neither could move the puck you were setting yourself up for some pain.
Simply put I think the move was made after watching what happened with Pittsburgh. I wouldn't say any of those guys were elite defenders, but what they could do was get the puck up and out of the zone quickly and push the game to the other end. I think that is pretty much the game Lavi is after, so Subban seems to fit that style of play more so than Weber ever would.
I will also be interested to see what it does to the PP. One would think things will need to be adjusted and it will need to be much more forward focused. That may end up being a bad thing, but part of me thinks it may end up being better because the players and coaching staff can no longer resort back to the old stand bye of feeding it to Weber and hoping he gets that shot on net. We talk about Weber's PP goals, but when you look at the number of chances he gets vs the number that goes in each year it might not be a bad thing to have a break from long term.
Simply put I think the move was made after watching what happened with Pittsburgh. I wouldn't say any of those guys were elite defenders, but what they could do was get the puck up and out of the zone quickly and push the game to the other end. I think that is pretty much the game Lavi is after, so Subban seems to fit that style of play more so than Weber ever would.
I will also be interested to see what it does to the PP. One would think things will need to be adjusted and it will need to be much more forward focused. That may end up being a bad thing, but part of me thinks it may end up being better because the players and coaching staff can no longer resort back to the old stand bye of feeding it to Weber and hoping he gets that shot on net. We talk about Weber's PP goals, but when you look at the number of chances he gets vs the number that goes in each year it might not be a bad thing to have a break from long term.
Definitely agree with the above. Subban will help the Pred's 5-on-5 play immensely.
Well both are PMDs, so that comparison is fair. But Subban is better in his own zone than Josi, whereas Josi is the better skater imo. Both have incredible vision with Subban having the better shot although he could benefit from playing a system that is not overly reliant on him being the QB (passer AND shooter) on the PP. Subban's defensive shortcomings are severely overstated, with a few glaring mistakes being magnified to no end because of team he played on. We also forked over that 8 mill that Poile so desperately wanted to avoid, so you should definitely see this as a win...
jwhouk
Former Cheesehead, Always a Preds Fan
That's only if you believe the Norris voters, who very often used their votes as a way of showing favoritism or nepotism.
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
The best in the World for a 5 year period and still a top 10 defenseman. Norris trophy is a joke
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