they'd probably be staples in the top-6 since the habs forward group isn't all that impressive
Proposal: MTL & TAMPA
- Thread starter Lockin17
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We had 5 wingers with a better PPG than Gorge\TJ. 6 if you include Domi! LOL
and that’s with a far weaker team compared to TBL.
they would be arguably on our 3rd pairing . 11.5M
ccman68
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- Dec 9, 2017
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Gourde was playing on our 4th line. Of course he didn’t score many points playing with shit players. He is better than most of your players and would easily be at least a second line forward for you. But keep just looking at points if you don’t want good players on your shitty team.
Johnson sucks though so you can have him for free.
broc
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- Dec 20, 2010
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Paying assets for a cap dump and a necessary contract dump.
I don’t think the Lightning are going to be so lucky.
I don’t think the Lightning are going to be so lucky.
Overpaid can be argued about, as I said. Last two seasons, Gourde averaged 56 points, which makes 5.16m look like a pretty solid deal. This season he's in our bottom 6, which makes 30 in 70 look respectable.
Playing 2nd line for MTL or any other team, he's likely move back into 50+ point territory, which again, makes 5.16m a very adequate cap hit.
As for Johnson, he is literally averaging 49 points his last 4 seasons. Rule of thumb says 1m per 10 pts, roughly. Which makes his 5m cap hit seem pretty reasonable, too, no? And that is not even considering that for at least parts of that he was also playing third line and that he can be used on both special teams units.
No idea why you're so desperately trying to make Johnson and Gourde seem overpaid/worthless, but the numbers say differently.
Again, just because they are dispensable for TB and would help navigate their cap situation, doesn't mean they are worthless/wouldn't fetch a return in a trade. As I said, probably would be for 70 cents on the dollar, but that's fine.
DingDongCharlie
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- Sep 12, 2010
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You want to move a decent prospect a 3rd liner and picks for 2 players you penciled into the bottom 6 at a combined $10 million per? Dude wtf
CanadienShark
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- Dec 18, 2012
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Gourde and Johnson aren't very impressive either. They aren't any improvement over what the Habs already have.
If the Sharks had cap space, I'd love Johnson though.
They are negative value to the Habs and most teams in the league because of the contract they carry and the lack of production. That is irrefutable!
Gourde would be on the 3rd line and a complete waste of cap. The fact that you say he was a 4th line winger makes it far worse. LOL
Points matter when you earn 5M as does age and term on contract. To make matters worse, Gourde is tiny which is another huge knock. Good luck trying to dish off that capdump. You are gonna need it.
JT Miller was on our 4th line last year and is now a ppg player. So him being on the 4th line has nothing to do with his abilities and more to do with how we like to distribute the lines up. Not saying he'll be ppg next year if he goes to a new team but if put in a top 6 role he can produce like he has in the past. Tatar was a cap dump for you guys and he turned into your best forward. Sometimes guys just need to right environment to produce and in a top 6 somewhere Gourde will.
That is a good comparison! When Tatar was traded to the Habs he was regarded as a capdump and Vegas had to retain salary. Even with retention, Tatar was still negative value in that trade. This is exactly how Gourde is regarded now. i.e. Gourde has negative value as a capdump.
GMs will only be interested if Gourde has reasonable retention and / or a significant sweetener is added to the deal.
No way do Suzuki and a 2nd alone net the Knights Pacioretty. Tatar had positive value
Suzuki was a highly regarded 1st round pick / prospect and the addition of the 2nd for MaxPac who was a rental was fair value. Tatar was a capdump even with retained salary . Tatar also didn’t have the long term remaining on his contract like Gourde. That long term is killer in Gourde’s case.
There's a difference though, we aren't trying to dump Gourde like Vegas was Tatar. Gourde is an important piece to our team, he's a big part of how well are bottom 6 is. Tatar was a terrible fit and was being healthy scratched. If Gourde is traded we aren't adding to him in the trade to move him.
All these Hab fans turning down players cause their players are better is growing old. Kokatemi would not be traded for anyone on the Jets roster, Domi would return Werenski, Caufield would cost 2 NHL players and a 1st, the Avs dont have the pieces to get Drouin, Domi would not leave unless return a top pairing dman....all hilarious. .Habs turning down any player should be based on one stat...wins...not how many points some guy that wouldn't be playing top 6 minutes on a good team is getting cause they are playing with Montreal. Chiarot is on your top pairing and you are turning down dmen? Get serious.
Then Gourde won't be traded because GM's are not lining up to take on a small 28 year old winger earning 5.2M on a contract that has another 5 years, while producing 30 points and a -5 (+/-) on one of the top teams in the league. His NTC should pretty much eliminate any possibility anyways.
This is the most misguided post i have read in a long time. Why would the Habs, a rebuilding / re-tooling team, trade for a 28 year-old small forward on a 5.2M AAV longterm contract after he produced 30 points on one of the league's top teams? That is the height of stupidity. Habs need to develop their young forwards KK, Suzuki, Poehling, Drouin, Caufield etc. Not trade away talent for a small winger that wouldn't move the needle... It would be completely idiotic for the Habs to trade for Gourde. Even your narrow understanding of the game should be able to comprehend that.
What does his size have to do with anything? Sure he's not big but he plays big which is much more important than being big. He produced 30 points on the 4th line, how many other forwards around the league did that? If you want to develop your young forwards then Gourde is a perfect player to have. He played alongside Point when he broke out two years ago and Cirelli last year. He's a very responsible winger that can help those kids.
We have Weber and Gallagher as a role model for the kids. Last thing anyone needs is a 30 point 5.2M role model. That's not a good selling point for dumping Gourde. lol
I mean, you have to accept that Gourde is a horrible fit for the Habs given his size, caphit and contract. Don't you agree?
No. Gourde is a great player for any team. He can play up and down the lineup, either wing and some center. He produces in whatever role he's asked and is great both ways. 5.2 isn't really that high when he's putting up 40-50 points which is where he would be on most teams if played higher up. There are other players i would move before Gourde if possible but I know that he may have to go since we are tight to the cap with others to sign. You don't have cap issues and Gourde can be a Seattle option or even a Tatar one if he asks for too much to keep.
Agree to disagree. Gourde's caphit and longterm contract would cause all kinds of issues for the Habs and would hold us back from competing once the team has righted the ship. He woundn't get a sniff at our top-2 lines with Drouin, Domi/Suzuki, Gallagher and Tatar and with Armia as well on the wings. He would languish on the 3rd line producing 30 points at 5.2M caphit. And a small little dude as well for a team that is lacking in size.
You won't be finding many takers and with his NTC - it is probably near impossible. He's an absolute horrible fitfor the Habs and its shocking that you don't see that. Habs would have a NTC on acquiring Gourde. lol
Good luck with that.
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I dont think you know what the word misguided means. Where did I say anything about a 28 year old small winger? You said those players would be on your 3rd pairing because you had 5 players with more points. Those 5 players would be getting 3rd or 4th line minutes if they played with Tampa...so their points would be reflective. Pretending players wouldn't make your team better because you have a player playing big minutes getting points but no wins is misguided.
sorry but the Habs players are putting up better points without a Point or Stamkos feeding it to them. No gm is dumb enough to willingly trade for an overpaid winger playing on TB’s 4th line .
There is no argument for MB trading for Gourde unless Alzner is going back in return to offset the caphit.
here are the facts:
1. Habs do not need anymore small wingers. We need size.
2. Habs are not interested in overpaid wingers on long term contracts
3. Habs have a bevy of top-6 wingers. It’s not a need
4. Gourde would be on the 3rd line behind zDomi/Suzuki, Drouin, Gallagher, Tatar and Armia
5. Habs will need to maintain cap space to sign important players like Gallagher and Danault.
6. Habs need a top-4 LHD
any trade will be for a top-4 left point producing dman. Not a small overpaid winger on a terrible contract
it really is shocking that people can’t figure this out. It’s not rocket science.
Gourde also has a ntc so he is TB all the way baby! You are so lucky to have him.
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Then keep him? What else is there to say. We don’t want or need him.
All those are true. I don’t see a single reasons to trade any of the guys bolded unless it’s for a return we simply cannot turn down. That’s the beauty of a team that is currently rebuilding/re-tooling. We have plenty of young NHL talents and a pipeline full of highly regarded prospects and most importantly, we have all the time we need to develop those young guys.
It’s funny how the table have turned. Less than two years ago, we were trying to trade our first line forward (Pacioretty) and we got told over and over again by almost every single fan base on here that we were day dreaming and their prospects or young NHL talents were not available (wink wink Borgstrom, Roslovic etc..) but now that Montreal has these young talent in their backward we would be foolish to not trade them for older, regressing players? Please! *If you need to refresh your memory a little bit I suggest you read that thread: Rumor: - Pacioretty Potential Trade Thread II (Mod warning post #139)
And it’s not just that. You’re trying to make fun of us because we want nothing to do with late first round picks and dime a dozen players for Drouin (24) and Domi (24 and had a 72 points season as a 23 years old) when on another hand you defend (for example) Tampa Bay fans who say over and over again that Cirelli (22) isn’t going anywhere any time soon (basically what we’re saying about Kotkaniemi, Domi, Drouin) after a 43 points season.. Way to be consistent buddy.
Before I go I will let you in on a secret; Montreal is not interested in moving any of their young core pieces unless an absolute stud is coming the other way. That means your late first round picks, AHL career studs and dime a dozens players available for a quantity for quality trade is not on our radar.
